16-year-old Scout Evaluates Dion Jordan | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

16-year-old Scout Evaluates Dion Jordan

I wrote the article

First, I'll admit, I googled myself in discussion results. Want to defend myself a bit. First of all, I get a lot of grief for being 16 at the time (turned 17 last month). I've been scouting the NFL draft since I was 13 and I read tons and tons of coaching books every offseason. And I feel like I have the right to have a bit of an ego toward my opinions because I watch film to back it up. Below are my scouting notes for next year's draft (so far). They should provide pretty good evidence that I watch film: (I'm not allowed to post links, so add http, eliminate spaces)
: // docs. google. com / document /edit ? id= 1ix0pJ90knOI161HyYxt959QWfHFs0PaqUT8RjP6v-zc

Secondly, regarding Jordan, I'll acknowledge I may not have given him enough credit for his physical gifts. I should have been more clear when I said he wasn't particularly explosive. It's not about athleticism, but the guy takes an awful long time to react to the snap of the football, and offensive linemen tend to have a pretty big head start before he starts rushing.

Thirdly, my biggest problem with Jordan is that he's been playing football for 8 years and still has the fundamentals of a high schooler. At least Ezekiel Ansah has an excuse for his lack of knowledge of the game. He's barely played football. I've never seen anything resembling good hand usage from Jordan, and he seems to lack feel in all aspects of the game. There's no reason for him to be this raw at this point in his career. Margus Hunt has all of the physical tools and then some that Jordan possesses. Sadly, for Jordan, he has as much of a track record of success at the collegiate level as Jordan, even though Hunt has known about the existence of the sport for about 4 years. I need to see something other than speed rush after speed rush from Jordan before I'm impressed.

Fourthly, and I didn't mention this in the article because his arm length hadn't been measured yet, but Jordan has a particularly awful combination for him: lots of height but short arms, at least for his size. They say the low man wins in football. Jordan is 6'6. He's going to have to find another way. For most players (Aldon Smith), it's good hand usage. Swim moves, rip moves, etc. Lots of height typically means long arms, and the advantage of long arms is that you should be able to hit the opposing offensive lineman before he hits you. I think Jordan's arms are 33 7/8 inches long. That's not terrible, but, from a guy who's 6'6, I'd say 34 5/8 is average. Ansah is 6'5 and his arms are 35 1/8 inches long. That's something you like to see. But Jordan is an awkward combination of too tall for great leverage, arms are too short to be incredible with hand usage (of course, hand usage is at least 75% fundamentals, so it's not a death sentence). His only option as a pass rusher is speed, which makes him one dimensional.

Fifthly, I'm a Packers fan, for my mom was born and raised in Green Bay, so no Jets bias here. Besides, I wrote this article in January, so even if I was a Jets fan, I wouldn't have known at the time Jordan would be a Dolphin.

Lastly, my main point is this: even Jordan's biggest supporters, such as Mike Mayock, compare him to a "raw Aldon Smith." I don't disagree with the comparison. My problem is this: why is he raw? It's not like he's from another country and has virtually no experience as a player. It's not like he's a JUCO transfer who hasn't had access to great coaching (JPP). There's no reason for him to be this raw at this point in his career. A raw Aldon Smith is a nice way of saying "Jarvis Moss." And, other than a .1 second difference in 40 yard dash times (Jordan has the edge), what is the difference between Jordan and Moss?
 
As you go on and get more experienced, you will learn that 34 inch arm length is not exactly "average" to where you can criticize it in a guy. Sorry but you're just kind of objectively wrong on that one.
 
For a guy who is 6'6, I think it is

Then you think wrong. No offense. You will not find a single scout looking at a guy's arm length being 3/8ths shy of 35 inches and saying man his arms are too short. Just not going to happen. You'll learn that eventually, I think.
 
When the day comes that people seriously think a 16 year old "scout" who examines the NFL as a hobby after playing Call of Duty, is more reliable as a talent evaluator than a professional football General Manager... :bobdole:
 
By the way, the primary reason I would think a Dion Jordan would be a little bit raw is position. At Oregon he played a hybrid position where he wasn't exactly allowed to take a full dive into being one thing or another. He had to be out in coverage a lot, out in space defending the run, etc. His pass rush is underdeveloped (yet surprisingly effective, by the numbers) because of that. It happens. I wouldn't compare the extent of his "rawness" to that of Zeke Ansah or Margus Hunt. Compared to them, Dion Jordan is polished.

Dion Jordan actually has good hands. Not as heavy or violent as Aldon Smith's hands coming out, but good hands. Just not a strongly developed pass rush repertoire. There's a difference between the two things.
 
First, I'll admit, I googled myself in discussion results. Want to defend myself a bit. First of all, I get a lot of grief for being 16 at the time (turned 17 last month). I've been scouting the NFL draft since I was 13 and I read tons and tons of coaching books every offseason. And I feel like I have the right to have a bit of an ego toward my opinions because I watch film to back it up. Below are my scouting notes for next year's draft (so far). They should provide pretty good evidence that I watch film: (I'm not allowed to post links, so add http, eliminate spaces)
: // docs. google. com / document /edit ? id= 1ix0pJ90knOI161HyYxt959QWfHFs0PaqUT8RjP6v-zc

Secondly, regarding Jordan, I'll acknowledge I may not have given him enough credit for his physical gifts. I should have been more clear when I said he wasn't particularly explosive. It's not about athleticism, but the guy takes an awful long time to react to the snap of the football, and offensive linemen tend to have a pretty big head start before he starts rushing.

Thirdly, my biggest problem with Jordan is that he's been playing football for 8 years and still has the fundamentals of a high schooler. At least Ezekiel Ansah has an excuse for his lack of knowledge of the game. He's barely played football. I've never seen anything resembling good hand usage from Jordan, and he seems to lack feel in all aspects of the game. There's no reason for him to be this raw at this point in his career. Margus Hunt has all of the physical tools and then some that Jordan possesses. Sadly, for Jordan, he has as much of a track record of success at the collegiate level as Jordan, even though Hunt has known about the existence of the sport for about 4 years. I need to see something other than speed rush after speed rush from Jordan before I'm impressed.

Fourthly, and I didn't mention this in the article because his arm length hadn't been measured yet, but Jordan has a particularly awful combination for him: lots of height but short arms, at least for his size. They say the low man wins in football. Jordan is 6'6. He's going to have to find another way. For most players (Aldon Smith), it's good hand usage. Swim moves, rip moves, etc. Lots of height typically means long arms, and the advantage of long arms is that you should be able to hit the opposing offensive lineman before he hits you. I think Jordan's arms are 33 7/8 inches long. That's not terrible, but, from a guy who's 6'6, I'd say 34 5/8 is average. Ansah is 6'5 and his arms are 35 1/8 inches long. That's something you like to see. But Jordan is an awkward combination of too tall for great leverage, arms are too short to be incredible with hand usage (of course, hand usage is at least 75% fundamentals, so it's not a death sentence). His only option as a pass rusher is speed, which makes him one dimensional.

Fifthly, I'm a Packers fan, for my mom was born and raised in Green Bay, so no Jets bias here. Besides, I wrote this article in January, so even if I was a Jets fan, I wouldn't have known at the time Jordan would be a Dolphin.

Lastly, my main point is this: even Jordan's biggest supporters, such as Mike Mayock, compare him to a "raw Aldon Smith." I don't disagree with the comparison. My problem is this: why is he raw? It's not like he's from another country and has virtually no experience as a player. It's not like he's a JUCO transfer who hasn't had access to great coaching (JPP). There's no reason for him to be this raw at this point in his career. A raw Aldon Smith is a nice way of saying "Jarvis Moss." And, other than a .1 second difference in 40 yard dash times (Jordan has the edge), what is the difference between Jordan and Moss?

Go back to school kiddo

oh and I googled something as well

jiFfM-1.jpg
 
As you go on and get more experienced, you will learn that 34 inch arm length is not exactly "average" to where you can criticize it in a guy. Sorry but you're just kind of objectively wrong on that one.

In fact, I just did the math. Among linemen, both offensive and defensive, at the last combine (exlcuding Jordan), the average arm length for 6'6 players was 34.33 inches. Of course, that includes a lot of crappy players (e.g. Garrett Gilkey, whose arms are 32 5/8), so I'd say that, from that sample, the average arm length of a 6'6 guy that actually winds up with something resembling an NFL career is probably 34 5/8

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

When the day comes that people seriously think a 16 year old "scout" who examines the NFL as a hobby after playing Call of Duty, is more reliable as a talent evaluator than a professional football General Manager... :bobdole:

I didn't say I was more reliable than a GM
 
In fact, I just did the math. Among linemen, both offensive and defensive, at the last combine (exlcuding Jordan), the average arm length for 6'6 players was 34.33 inches. Of course, that includes a lot of crappy players (e.g. Garrett Gilkey, whose arms are 32 5/8), so I'd say that, from that sample, the average arm length of a 6'6 guy that actually winds up with something resembling an NFL career is probably 34 5/8

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------



I didn't say I was more reliable than a GM

:snack:
 
By the way, the primary reason I would think a Dion Jordan would be a little bit raw is position. At Oregon he played a hybrid position where he wasn't exactly allowed to take a full dive into being one thing or another. He had to be out in coverage a lot, out in space defending the run, etc. His pass rush is underdeveloped (yet surprisingly effective, by the numbers) because of that. It happens. I wouldn't compare the extent of his "rawness" to that of Zeke Ansah or Margus Hunt. Compared to them, Dion Jordan is polished.

Dion Jordan actually has good hands. Not as heavy or violent as Aldon Smith's hands coming out, but good hands. Just not a strongly developed pass rush repertoire. There's a difference between the two things.
Strongly disagree. Plus he wasn't "surprisingly effective, by the numbers." You do realize he had 5 sacks last year? And they came againt Tennessee Tech, Arizona State, Washington State, and Fresno State?
 
In fact, I just did the math. Among linemen, both offensive and defensive, at the last combine (exlcuding Jordan), the average arm length for 6'6 players was 34.33 inches. Of course, that includes a lot of crappy players (e.g. Garrett Gilkey, whose arms are 32 5/8), so I'd say that, from that sample, the average arm length of a 6'6 guy that actually winds up with something resembling an NFL career is probably 34 5/8

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------



I didn't say I was more reliable than a GM

Why are you adjusting this measure for height?

I think you're setting up an inverse relationship that doesn't exist. The NFL generally likes height (yes there is such thing as too tall, especially when it detracts from mobility), and the NFL generally likes arm length. There is not an inverse relationship between the two. Having a guy be taller does not require that his arms be longer in order to "justify" his height.

You'll not find a scout criticizing Dion Jordan's body dimensions. Quite the opposite. Sorry.
 
the short arms thing with dion jordan makes no sense...his arms are plenty long enough...34 inch arms are left tackle length
 
Back
Top Bottom