2005 Defensive Sets Front Seven | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

2005 Defensive Sets Front Seven

I think Roth will take over as a starter in some capacity before the end of the season. At least that's my hope. I don't care if he's the DE opposite JT or an OLB in the 3-4, but the kid is a monster.
 
Jaj, I'm just curious, do you think we'll eventually end up switching to the 3-4 permanently? Could it be as soon as next season (2005-2006)? And if so why would we switch to the 3-4 if it might end up meaning a decreased role in Zach Thomas (or possibly getting rid of him) and JT switching to LB or possibly even losing him too? I understand Zach Thomas is 31 and may not be here for much longer because of his contract, but why risk losing Jason Taylor? Yes, he's 30 but he's arguably our best player on defense. How would switching to a 3-4 benefit us if a big part of the 3-4 defense is having good LB's and we could end up losing Thomas (I understand he doesn't fit in the 3-4) and Jason Taylor (who could be LB for us in the 3-4)? I don't mean to target you personally, but you seem to know a lot about the 3-4 defense and I'm just curious to your opinions on everything I stated. Thanks.
 
I don't think Saban will ever completely change to a 3-4 defense. His defenses has always had the flexability to switch between various fronts depending on the situation. The basic package will be a stunt 4-3 with varying odd fronts to match the situation. Versatility.
 
Jaj said:
The D is up in the air just as much as the O in my opinion. Here's how my D looks, tell me watch you guys think.

4-3 base

RDE- Taylor, Bowens, Roth
RDT- Chester, Romero(god I hope we get a better backup to Chester/Bowens for run stopping)
LDT- Bowens, Holliday
LDE- Carter, Holliday, Vickerson
LOLB- Seau, Spragan
MLB- Thomas, Pope
ROLB- Crowder, Moore

4-3 passing situations

RDE- Taylor, Roth
RDT- Holliday, Vickerson
LDT- Carter
LDE- Bowens, Roth
LOLB- Pope
MLB- Crowder
ROLB- Moore

3-4 look (even if we use only about 10-15% of the time, if that)

RDE- Holliday, Vickerson
NT- Chester, Bowens
LDE- Carter, Vickerson
LOLB- Seau
LILB- Crowder, Thomas
RILB- Spragan,
ROLB- Bowens(played there in college, and if Taylor doesn't want to play there than I guess Bowens ends up playing)

Give me your lineups.
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I would not take Thomas out in the 3-4, instead I would put him next to Crowder, Thomas may not have the height, but he has the size, and he will clog up the middle with not problem. On the right outside LBer, I would use Roth over Bowens. Roth has also played LB, but he has a nastier disposition....We need that in this defense

RDE- Holliday, Vickerson
NT- Chester, Bowens
LDE- Carter, Vickerson
LOLB- Seau
LILB- Crowder,
RILB- Thomas, Spragan
ROLB- Roth
 
RDE- Taylor
RDT- Bowens
LDT- Carter
LDE- Holliday/Roth
WLB- Seau/Crowder
MLB- Thomas
SLB- Spragan
RCB- Madison
LCB- Howard
FS- Edwards
SS- Jones

But, I think you're going to see a lot of mixing and matching in the front 7.
 
* Carter will play DT in the 4-3 and DE in the 3-4.
* Holliday will play DE on run downs; Roth will replace him on pass downs.
* Taylor will play rush OLB in the 3-4.
* Spragan will play OLB in both sets.
* Seau will play OLB in the 4-3 but may move inside in the 3-4 because he no longer has the speed for pass coverage.
* Pope or Moore will have to make the team as nickel/dime LB. (Thomas will go out on 3rd down passing situations.)
* I know Travis Daniels is being talked about as a CB but I predict he'll move to FS if Tillman or Bell don't impress early in camp.
 
Jaj said:
They're both the same weight and Holliday played DT in college so why couldn't it happen?
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ugg. I hate this reasoning. People use this all the time for St.Clair. Yadda yadda yadda, he played center in college, so he could play it in the pros, right?

Just cause someone plays somewhere in college, doesnt mean it translates to the pros and just because they have the same size as another player who plays that position, doesnt mean they can play it either.

Holliday is a DE, I dont ever see him playing DT unless all our DT's get hurt and we dont have anyone else on the roster. Holliday, I believe (but correct me if I am wrong), has never played DT in the NFL and has always been used as a DE whereas Carter has played both DE and DT positions. Carter will be the only swing player on the Dline.

As for your formations, I dont see why we would ever take JT and ZT off the field. They are our best players and seasoned vets, we wouldnt have a young LB corp ever on the field unless ZT was injured.
 
I see Saban using the correct players for the scheme, which mean that Thomas may come out in the 3-4 package. Thomas doesnt have the size to play inside in a 3-4, while he plays bigger than his size he is about 25 Lbs too light and will get blown up by OL in the second level.

In a 4-3
RDE-Jason Taylor
RDT-Kevin Carter
LDT-Tim Bowens/Larry Chester
LDE-Vonnie Holliday(rushing downs) Matt Roth(passing downs)
LOLB-Junior Seau
MLB-Zach Thomas
ROLB-Channing Crowder

I like Carter at RDT because we could shift from a 4-3, to a 3-4 just by having Taylor stand up and the lineman shift over


In a 3-4

RDE-Kevin Carter
NT-Tim Bowens/Larry Chester
LDE-Vonnie Holliday
ROLB-Jason Taylor
RILB-Donnie Spragan
LILB-Channing Crowder
LOLB-Matt Roth
I like Roth on the edge because it gives teams more to worry about. They cant just watch for Taylor to determine where to shift protection.
 
I really don't see Holliday as a DT, but I am expecting to see the Dolphins to use a lot of 4-3 Defense, and pick up 1 or 2 DT after June 1st
 
it think the majority of our downlinmen are versatile (aside from t bowens and chester) and can be used at various places with various techniques depending on the scheme. the #1 factor that will determine what we try to do with our front 7 this year will be the health and effectiveness of t bow and chester. if both of them can't go i see no way we can run a 4-3 as our base defense.
 
I hope Roth impresses enough to start. It'd be great to have him opposite of JT.
 
kastofsna120 said:
vickerson will be a DT...him at DE seems odd. i want to see roth play OLB in a 3-4, with crowder and thomas on the inside.
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If Vickerson and Roth can prove themselves, this would be a very effective front 7, but I still like the 4-3, more then the 3-4.
 
Nicky Napoleon said:
I see Saban using the correct players for the scheme, which mean that Thomas may come out in the 3-4 package. Thomas doesnt have the size to play inside in a 3-4, while he plays bigger than his size he is about 25 Lbs too light and will get blown up by OL in the second level.

In a 4-3
RDE-Jason Taylor
RDT-Kevin Carter
LDT-Tim Bowens/Larry Chester
LDE-Vonnie Holliday(rushing downs) Matt Roth(passing downs)
LOLB-Junior Seau
MLB-Zach Thomas
ROLB-Channing Crowder

I like Carter at RDT because we could shift from a 4-3, to a 3-4 just by having Taylor stand up and the lineman shift over


In a 3-4

RDE-Kevin Carter
NT-Tim Bowens/Larry Chester
LDE-Vonnie Holliday
ROLB-Jason Taylor
RILB-Donnie Spragan
LILB-Channing Crowder
LOLB-Matt Roth
I like Roth on the edge because it gives teams more to worry about. They cant just watch for Taylor to determine where to shift protection.
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Zack is not comming out of either defense.
 
I don't see Nick taking Zach out when the team switches to an odd front. The team will become very predictable if they start subbing everytime they switch their front.

The only thing that will happen is that the line will slide with Jason Taylor playing up in a two point as opposed to a three point stance. I don't think you will ever see a true 3-4 that lines the base linemen up in even techniques (0 technique and 4 technique).
 
I also think we'll see Turner make the team at ILB, and we'll never see Pope at OLB. He's limited in his hips and change of direction skills.

I think we'll keep 7 LB's.

Packages where players utilize their versatility will come into play more on this team than we just to do. Our packages before were more vanilla, but Saban will try to put players in positions that accentuate their positives and diminsh their negatives.
 
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