2005 Defensive Sets Front Seven | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

2005 Defensive Sets Front Seven

Nicky Napoleon said:
I see Saban using the correct players for the scheme, which mean that Thomas may come out in the 3-4 package. Thomas doesnt have the size to play inside in a 3-4, while he plays bigger than his size he is about 25 Lbs too light and will get blown up by OL in the second level.
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If Thomas is going to come out in 3-4 situations, then we should get rid of him. You don't pay a guy $6M to stand on the sideline. Zach is certainly not the ideal size to play inside in a 3-4. But, I think that is offset by the fact that he will have less area to be responsible for. I bet he still plays all the time.
 
I'll be shocked if we see both Chester and Bowens at DT simultaneously. Dolphin fans have no idea how much we sacrifice in disruptive potential when you combine that pair. It's almost like we got brainwashed into believing DTs aren't supposed to penetrate or make plays. As long as they belly bump and don't give ground they are Pro Bowl caliber. What a farce.

I've looked at tapes of 2002 and 2003 repeatedly. Late in games our defense collapsed largely due to the opposition ignoring our DTs on the pass rush and double teaming the outside. We would desperately stick tiny DE types at DT on passing downs. The opponent would frequently take advantage of that by recognizing the weakness and running smack at us. In that Monday Night debacle in 2003, the Eagles were seemingly ready for every potential mismatch and took full advantage. The Jets did so also, sending Curtis Martin on quick hitters.

Once we find a young disruptive force(s) at DT, Larry Chester will gain the lowered place in echelon he has always warranted.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
I'll be shocked if we see both Chester and Bowens at DT simultaneously. Dolphin fans have no idea how much we sacrifice in disruptive potential when you combine that pair. It's almost like we got brainwashed into believing DTs aren't supposed to penetrate or make plays. As long as they belly bump and don't give ground they are Pro Bowl caliber. What a farce.

I've looked at tapes of 2002 and 2003 repeatedly. Late in games our defense collapsed largely due to the opposition ignoring our DTs on the pass rush and double teaming the outside. We would desperately stick tiny DE types at DT on passing downs. The opponent would frequently take advantage of that by recognizing the weakness and running smack at us. In that Monday Night debacle in 2003, the Eagles were seemingly ready for every potential mismatch and took full advantage. The Jets did so also, sending Curtis Martin on quick hitters.

Once we find a young disruptive force(s) at DT, Larry Chester will gain the lowered place in echelon he has always warranted.
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Thhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttsssssss WANNY!
 
painnotpleasure said:
Jaj, I'm just curious, do you think we'll eventually end up switching to the 3-4 permanently? Could it be as soon as next season (2005-2006)? And if so why would we switch to the 3-4 if it might end up meaning a decreased role in Zach Thomas (or possibly getting rid of him) and JT switching to LB or possibly even losing him too? I understand Zach Thomas is 31 and may not be here for much longer because of his contract, but why risk losing Jason Taylor? Yes, he's 30 but he's arguably our best player on defense. How would switching to a 3-4 benefit us if a big part of the 3-4 defense is having good LB's and we could end up losing Thomas (I understand he doesn't fit in the 3-4) and Jason Taylor (who could be LB for us in the 3-4)? I don't mean to target you personally, but you seem to know a lot about the 3-4 defense and I'm just curious to your opinions on everything I stated. Thanks.
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I think we'll use 3-4 more and more ever year however the 4-3 will be our primary set even in the future. It depends on personnel. That's the reason the Ravens are switching back this year.

As for the other guy who said Holliday would never play DT...

Why? He's the same exact size as Carter and that's what he was expected to be coming out of college.
 
KB21 said:
I don't see Nick taking Zach out when the team switches to an odd front. The team will become very predictable if they start subbing everytime they switch their front.

The only thing that will happen is that the line will slide with Jason Taylor playing up in a two point as opposed to a three point stance. I don't think you will ever see a true 3-4 that lines the base linemen up in even techniques (0 technique and 4 technique).
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You know KB I thought about, that thats why I put Roth at OLB to take away some of the predictability. Roth and JT at OLB gives us ability to bring heat from either side. Saban seems like he is going to put players where they will succeed, I love Zach but he isnt as young as he used to be and getting pounded on in the second level by G's and C's worries me. KB as Im sure you know Zach is at his best when the DT's eat up blocks and allow him to roam the field. In a 3-4 they arent going to do that, and his size COULD be a problem. He may show me up and excell in a 3-4, I hope so! But it will remain to be seen!
 
KB21 said:
RDE - Jason Taylor
RDT - Kevin Carter
LDT - Larry Chester
LDE - Vonnie Holliday
WLB - Junior Seau
MLB - Zach Thomas
SLB - Channing Crowder
RCB - Sam Madison
LCB - Will Poole
FS - Travares Tillman
SS - Tebucky Jones
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RDE - Jason Taylor (Backup Vonnie Hollidday)
RDT - Kevin Carter (Tim Bowens)
LDT - Larry Chester (Vickenson)
LDE - Matt Roth (D Bowens)
WLB - Junior Seau (Eddie Moore)
MLB - Zach Thomas (Derrick Pope)
SLB - Channing Crowder (Spragan)
RCB - Sam Madison (Howard)
LCB - Travis Daniels (Poole)
FS - Will Poole (Tillman)
SS - Tebucky Jones (Bell)
 
Jaj said:
The D is up in the air just as much as the O in my opinion. Here's how my D looks, tell me watch you guys think.

4-3 base

RDE- Taylor, Bowens, Roth
RDT- Chester, Romero(god I hope we get a better backup to Chester/Bowens for run stopping)
LDT- Bowens, Holliday
LDE- Carter, Holliday, Vickerson
LOLB- Seau, Spragan
MLB- Thomas, Pope
ROLB- Crowder, Moore

4-3 passing situations

RDE- Taylor, Roth
RDT- Holliday, Vickerson
LDT- Carter
LDE- Bowens, Roth
LOLB- Pope
MLB- Crowder
ROLB- Moore

3-4 look (even if we use only about 10-15% of the time, if that)

RDE- Holliday, Vickerson
NT- Chester, Bowens
LDE- Carter, Vickerson
LOLB- Seau
LILB- Crowder, Thomas
RILB- Spragan,
ROLB- Bowens(played there in college, and if Taylor doesn't want to play there than I guess Bowens ends up playing)

Give me your lineups.
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I agree with almost everything, except that pope won't see a down of play outside of special teams. you can count on Richard Smith to get the most out of Spragen, Crowder and Moore. Yes I said moore, we will get our $ worth out of this bum now that he's got the proper coaching. And Taylor will be playing some OLB whether he likes it or not, It would be real nice to see Roth out there as well that would be pretty scarey for any opposing offense.:evil:
 
To me if everyone is healthy its simple:

Base "D"

RE J.Taylor
DT T.Bowans
DT L.Chester
LE K.Carter

OLB J.Seau
MLB Z.Thomas
OLB C.Crowder

Pass Rush Downs:

RE Taylor
DT Holliday
DT Carter
LE Roth

NLB Moore
MLB Thomas
 
Zach isnt coming out in the 3-4. If anything, he is one of the main reasons we will run it, because it plays to his strengths.

The Dolphins defense is going to be a 4-3/3-4 hybrid, from what we've heard. Based on Saban's preferences at LSU, we're going to run a 4-3 with alot of shifting fronts, that at times will not be a whole lot different from a 3-4.

Dont look at New England's 3-4 and think we are implementing that. There are different styles of 3-4 differences. Look at New England, then look at Pittsburgh, then look at the Chargers.

Of the 3, we will likely be most like the Chargers. Our interior linebacker setup will be alot like that. Zach Thomas will likely play the same type of role as Donnie Edwards(Who, by the way, is taller and lighter then Thomas.)

Zach is going to spend his time in the 3-4 for the most part either playing conservative and trying to get to the ball(Which he has been doing for his whole career), or playing in zone coverage(Which he is among the best in the league at).

The other ILB spot will likely pretty much be a guy whose job is a professional crap-stirrer. Randal Godfrey does this for the Chargers. His job is to charge the line of scrimmage and just make a mess of things. Make blockers nervous. Occupy the fullback. Crash the play in the backfield, and let Zach clean up. Does this sound like a certain older OLB we currently have on the roster?
 
Mitch Meesun will start at FS in my opinion
 
Jaj said:
As for the other guy who said Holliday would never play DT...

Why? He's the same exact size as Carter and that's what he was expected to be coming out of college.
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Again, just because he played it in college, doesnt mean he would play it in the NFL. They are the same size?

What if I told you we had a guy who was 6'0 222 lbs and 6'0 222 on the team. One played LB and one played RB..... but wait, they are the same exact size so they should be interchangeable right? Not unless you want Sammy Morris playing LB and Corey Jenkins taking handoffs.

Or look at the Oline.... Jeno James technically has the size to be an OT, but would you really want him at LT?..... me no thinky so.

Just cause Holliday and Carter have the same size doesnt mean that Holliday could also play both ways. DE and DT need to have different qualities in them, just like OT and OG. Holliday hasnt shown once in the NFL he could play DT, I dont care if he did it in college, he prolly played some QB in highschool also..... until he shows it in the NFL, its silly to say we would like him up at a different position UNLESS we had no DT's and needed someone to go in. Thats the only way I see him at DT, if Chester and Bowens go down and we need a DT badly.

Holliday was signed as a larger DE because Saban likes large DE's. Carter was signed as a DT and to be able to play occasional DE on different fronts.

....Also, why would we take Zach Thomas out of the lineup on certain downs? How badly do we want to telegraph our defenses to the other team? I dont see why Zach would ever be taken out of the lineup except maybe on nickel or dime packages. I thought the point of our defense with Saban was going to be to disguise packages and the point of acquiring players like Carter and Roth in the draft was because they have the ability to play 2 positions and help us disguise packages.

If we play on taking Zach and JT our of certain packages, we might as well just hand the defensive play over to the other team.
 
i got an idea. lest design a defensive formation that puts your 2 best defensive players on the bench...

:roflmao: :roflmao:
 
ch19079 said:
i got an idea. lest design a defensive formation that puts your 2 best defensive players on the bench...

:roflmao: :roflmao:
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Thank you Bills fan. I dont understand the logic behind it either.
 
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