2013 draft, Irelands biggest failure? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

2013 draft, Irelands biggest failure?

circumstances said:
this is ireland's third draft. and it remains to be seen if players like mike pouncey, ryan tannehill, dion jordan (or even charles clay, olivier vernon, lamar miller, jamar taylor, or rishard matthews) become "beasts." whatever your definition of that term may be.

what GM has drafted the most "beasts" in his first three drafts?
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2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013....yep looks just like 3 drafts
 
ConvenientTruth said:
Yes...and even if he didn't...it is not like his last 3 drafts have been significantly better...
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like I always say, Parcells doesn't strike me as a "delegating authority" kind of guy...
also, if he didn't let someone else run his drafts, then it is only 3
 
ConvenientTruth said:
He was trade bait due to the only top level players being LT's, was expendable, and KC wanted to recoup the 2nd rounder they gave up for Smith. Using the pick to move up for a player that doesn't even fit the defensive scheme the Dolphins run when they could have used the traded pick on a high level LT seems like a piss poor move.

Secondly, I do have an agenda against Ireland....he's had 5 offseasons and continues to make questionable to downright bad moves. Poor drafting, especially in the second and third rounds, contract extensions that do not make sense while letting player who should be resigned, walk. IT is his body of work I have an issue with and not just this one draft.
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Your knowledge on Alberts situation in KC is only partially true. He was expendable because of his price tag, and not being a team player. Albert is always looking out for Albert. Talk radio up here around NE Kansas, during that time period, was hoping MIA or anyone would take Albert. The chatter was he could be replaced and his attitude was a detriment to the locker room.

I'm not backing Ireland, but I understand the situation. Once he drafted Tannehill, he would be given time. Many here did not seem to understand this rationale. But that isn't surprising.
 
normaniii said:
BS, is a bit strong lol

I have no issue with selecting a DE. My issue us the fact that we traded up in a draft, devoid of elite talent but with great depth.

It wasn't like we went into draft not needing depth at certain positions. I love Dion Jordan, but let's be honest, he is best suited to a 3-4 OLB and was always going to be used as a situational pass rusher.

Surely both Bjoern Werner, a player more suited to 4-3, together with Watson or Warford would have been a far better choice overall.

To say its hindsight is not. These gardes were complied by nfl.com prior to draft. I personally would have gone a different way and selected players who dropped, i.e. Werner, Lotulelei, K.Allen, D.Moore, M.Watson etc but I was using the site as a tool to show how we could have gone a different way just using a basic formula
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The BS was not a attack, it was a description of the chicken little echo chamber known as the MIA fan base and FH. The fan base would have gone nuclear with a offensive linemen pick in the first.

But again, my complaint is you can not objectively grade this draft after 10 games. Prior to the draft, people thought Martin was ready to take the next step. Incog was coming off a PB season. Pouncey well is Pouncey. Clabo was supposed to be a quality upgrade, the fact his game has dropped off so much, is alarming. And Jerry you might have a case, as I have never liked his motivation for the position or the league.

Dion Jordan deserves the same time to progress, as RT has been given. His raw skills deserve it, IMO.
 
rent this space said:
like I always say, Parcells doesn't strike me as a "delegating authority" kind of guy...
also, if he didn't let someone else run his drafts, then it is only 3
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“The decision to extend Jeff’s contract as our General Manager was an easy one,” said Ross in a statement. “The young talent that Jeff has assembled during his three years with the Dolphins has made a profound impact on our franchise’s recovery from the 1-15 season of 2007.”
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/22/dolphins-hand-g-m-jeff-ireland-a-contract-extension/

This draft will be different for the Dolphins in that there can be no rewrite of history when or if things go wrong. The Pat White draft pick, for example, was pretty much an orphan for quite some time until the last three months when I got Ireland and Parcells to took responsibility for the mistake on the record -- Ireland on my radio show, Parcells in a column I wrote last week.

Parcells is still proud of the Jake Long pick and doesn't deem it a mistake but he understands, he also told me, if some folks think Matt Ryan would have been the better selection. The Big Tuna has also told me that in the spring of 2008 he sent Dan Henning, Tony Sparano and Ireland to Ann Arbor (to see Chad Henne), to Delaware (to see Joe Flacco) and to Boston (to see Ryan) and everyone came back saying Henne was every bit as good as the other two.

So again, responsibility goes where responsibility goes -- on the entire organization.
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http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/jeff_ireland/

If Ireland was paid like a GM, he can accept the blame of a GM.

He was on board for all the decisions made. And even if he wasnt(though he was), it wasnt like he just sat in the corner twiddling his thumbs like some suggest. Parcells relied on Ireland's evaluations. Those evaluations have proven to be hideously flawed.
 
If I had a time machine, I would go back in time and replace Ireland with a mannequin at Radio City Music Hall or in the Dolphin's war room,,,,kind of like what they did in the Weekend at Bernie's movie. Just prop Jeff up in a chair and put some sunglasses on him. :lol:

Then when we are ready to pick, I would assemble the draft guru's on this site whose opinions I really respect.... CK, Hooshoops, J-Offer-Her-Doll, Utah Phins Fan, Gonzo, Roadrunner, Ted Slimm, and a few others, and a vote would be taken on which guys we should take. I know it would be 100% better than the crap Ireland has drafted over the years. :woot:

I also would go back and make sure Joe Namath and the Jets never won SBIII, and the same with the Brady SB wins.

I'd also go back in time and bag Marilyn Monroe, before she got too famous. :d-day:
 
parcells had final say on all personnel decisions through 2010. starting in 2011 ireland had final say on all personnel decisions. it's as simple as that. if you can't pull the trigger, you can't pull the trigger. they can call you GM, president, grand poobah, or the lord almighty. it is all on ireland starting in 2011.
 
DolfanDuBbZ~ said:
The BS was not a attack, it was a description of the chicken little echo chamber known as the MIA fan base and FH. The fan base would have gone nuclear with a offensive linemen pick in the first.

But again, my complaint is you can not objectively grade this draft after 10 games. Prior to the draft, people thought Martin was ready to take the next step. Incog was coming off a PB season. Pouncey well is Pouncey. Clabo was supposed to be a quality upgrade, the fact his game has dropped off so much, is alarming. And Jerry you might have a case, as I have never liked his motivation for the position or the league.

Dion Jordan deserves the same time to progress, as RT has been given. His raw skills deserve it, IMO.
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Granted it may be a little early to judge the players we have drafted. My point is that we should not have drafted who we did.

Jeff Ireland cannot draft on fan opinion. We had a major lack of quality and depth at O'line. I do agree though with your points about incognito, Pouncey and Clabo, but we had next to nobody backing them up besides Garner. That is a massive depth issue especially when you tie in that 3 are FA next year.

I do agree with you again about Shelby and Vernon. I would have drafted DE, but I would not have wasted a quality pick to go up and get one. Overall I think Jordan will be excellent, but in a 4-3 I would not put a lot between him and Werner.
 
Roman529 said:
If I had a time machine, I would go back in time and replace Ireland with a mannequin at Radio City Music Hall or in the Dolphin's war room,,,,kind of like what they did in the Weekend at Bernie's movie. Just prop Jeff up in a chair and put some sunglasses on him. :lol:

Then when we are ready to pick, I would assemble the draft guru's on this site whose opinions I really respect.... CK, Hooshoops, J-Offer-Her-Doll, Utah Phins Fan, Gonzo, Roadrunner, Ted Slimm, and a few others, and a vote would be taken on which guys we should take. I know it would be 100% better than the crap Ireland has drafted over the years. :woot:

I also would go back and make sure Joe Namath and the Jets never won SBIII, and the same with the Brady SB wins.

I'd also go back in time and bag Marilyn Monroe, before she got too famous. :d-day:
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You know one of those you highly respect said "Pat White could revolutionize the QB position."
 
DolfanDuBbZ~ said:
So those 3.5 sacks between the two, was enough to by pass a potential high ceiling player like Jordan? You are re writing history to suit your case today. Shelby and Vernon had shown VERY LITTLE prior to the draft to assume Wake didn't need help, especially in the AFC East.

I love how people here can sit down and completely forget the thought process going into the draft. O Line was not in order, after all the BS blown up around here about using first round picks on O linemen. The same game day banners flying over the stadium wanting the GM fired. The media blasting this team for having NO PLAYMAKERS, outside of Wake.

This hindsight you display reeks of BS from top to bottom. You can go back and re write every draft, but it won't change a damn thing. And judging this draft so close, is agenda driven.
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Sometimes you just wonder if they follow the same team we follow, We executed the off,season perfectly by everyones account. Now, the revisionist historians are coming out the wood works. Shelby? Pass up Jordan, the same guy that I saw covering Gronk and Gates, and pressure just about every time he rushes the QB, for offensive lineman. Geez
 
CRAZYDOLFAN305 said:
Sometimes you just wonder if they follow the same team we follow, We executed the off,season perfectly by everyones account. Now, the revisionist historians are coming out the wood works. Shelby? Pass up Jordan, the same guy that I saw covering Gronk and Gates, and pressure just about every time he rushes the QB, for offensive lineman. Geez
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Your worse than my mrs for not hearing what I saying lol

I never said I disliked or did not want Jordan. I think he will be excellent, but, we did not have enough talent it depth in other position to afford ourselves to trade up for a luxury pick
 
CRAZYDOLFAN305 said:
Sometimes you just wonder if they follow the same team we follow, We executed the off,season perfectly by everyones account. Now, the revisionist historians are coming out the wood works. Shelby? Pass up Jordan, the same guy that I saw covering Gronk and Gates, and pressure just about every time he rushes the QB, for offensive lineman. Geez
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I think there was plenty of criticism of the offseason both in this site and in the press. Overpaying for Ellerbe, wheeler, and mike Wallace. Lots of people worried how Wallace was a one trick pony. And what do we have? LBs that can't tackle and Wallace making minimal impact because we can't get him the ball deep. Many criticized Jordan at the time as well because we desperately needed an OT. Guess what? Our OT position and depth is garbage.

I have no problem assessing the impact the draft has had this year, which is very low. As long as it's clear that it's based on impact to date. Calling everyone busts is a different story. The gm has to bring in contributors each year. With 4 year contracts you can't just pick guys that you have to wait 3years for. The draft has performed poorly this year, and it looks we will get minimal contribution. Hopefully, these guys will develop next year. For a team with depth and talent issues going into the draft, sitting at week 11 with virtually no impact is an indictment on the a uestionable moves and philosophy of the gm.

FWIW, I actually loved the dion Jordan pick. I literally screamed at the TV that this pick better be Jordan and not an OT. However, I don't really like the rest of the picks.
 
Spesh said:
If Ireland was paid like a GM, he can accept the blame of a GM.

He was on board for all the decisions made. And even if he wasnt(though he was), it wasnt like he just sat in the corner twiddling his thumbs like some suggest. Parcells relied on Ireland's evaluations. Those evaluations have proven to be hideously flawed.
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And if Parcells was paid like a Vice President of Football Operations, which I'm assuming is much more than a GM, he can accept more blame.
Ireland had a voice, no doubt, but no one besides Parcells made the final call in the drafts while he was here
 
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