2023 Offensive Line (Senior) | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

2023 Offensive Line (Senior)

NoblePhin said:
Anyone think Olusegun Oluwatimi can transition to guard?
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I think he has only played C in college so that would be a projection for sure.

He moves pretty well and looks to be strong enough to make the transition, but I would not count on him contributing early if you ask him to move.
 
I realize there's a lot that people like about Matthew Bergeron but there's something I can't shake about him that doesn't make me feel very safe about him in pass pro. It's not a frame deficiency but at the same time it sort of feels like a frame deficiency and I have a little trouble reconciling that.

He went through a stretch in the final five games against Clemson, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Florida State, and Boston College where he let up a bunch of sacks and hits on QB, also got a couple of penalties. Followed up at the Senior Bowl with a rough game. It's not that I put overmuch emphasis on the All Star stuff but in the context of the final five games, it's suggestive.

I thought Bergeron was made to look silly by Jared Verse of Florida State. Verse is a good player. But the NFL are full of good players, better than a 2022 college player named Jared Verse. But he also struggled against rookies from Florida State, with Deslin Alexandre and John Morgan III of Pitt, etc. Ironically he looked fine against Isaiah Foskey for the most part.

I think you see a lot of people talking about him moving inside, even though he's got the arm length and wingspan for tackle, and maybe they're seeing what I'm seeing. His game does seem to lend itself to playing on the inside. Maybe I'm tempted to compare him to Teven Jenkins, who I never liked as much as others did as a Tackle prospect, but who moved inside to Right Guard and right away looked like a fish in water, had an outstanding season.
 
I think quite a bit of the value with Bergeron is the belief that he can play G if he fails at OT.

I don't like him as much as Cody Mauch who is viewed in a similar manner.
 
At tackle in this draft I trust Darnell Wright, Paris Johnson Jr., Dawand Jones, Broderick Jones, Anton Harrison, Carter Warren, Blake Freeland, and Wanya Morris...probably in that order. Some of them, particularly Dawand Jones, Blake Freeland, and Wanya Morris, you might be more comfortable if they are playing Right Tackle than Left Tackle. Broderick Jones is still a bit of a floater for me, haven't decided his spot in the pecking order.

I have questions about Peter Skoronski, Matthew Bergeron, Cody Mauch, and Tyler Steen playing the tackle position at next level. It's not that I believe they are bad players or that you should avoid them. It's that they have the conversion flag on them and that's certainly not a sure thing, historically speaking. It also means that historically speaking, their ascendance will typically be delayed a year longer than the guards who played guard (e.g. O'Cyrus Torrence and Steve Avila).
 
ckparrothead said:
At tackle in this draft I trust Darnell Wright, Paris Johnson Jr., Dawand Jones, Broderick Jones, Anton Harrison, Carter Warren, Blake Freeland, and Wanya Morris...probably in that order. Some of them, particularly Dawand Jones, Blake Freeland, and Wanya Morris, you might be more comfortable if they are playing Right Tackle than Left Tackle. Broderick Jones is still a bit of a floater for me, haven't decided his spot in the pecking order.

I have questions about Peter Skoronski, Matthew Bergeron, Cody Mauch, and Tyler Steen playing the tackle position at next level. It's not that I believe they are bad players or that you should avoid them. It's that they have the conversion flag on them and that's certainly not a sure thing, historically speaking. It also means that historically speaking, their ascendance will typically be delayed a year longer than the guards who played guard (e.g. O'Cyrus Torrence and Steve Avila).
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What about Jaelyn Duncan??
 
I would put Duncan in the Project With Upside column for OT's.

He moves well in pass protection but needs to get stronger, not likely to be an early contributor but could develop into a starter.

Round 4 area I would guess.Might sneak into the late 3rd.
 
What I would say about Jaelyn Duncan is we already have a few of him on roster in the form of Kendall Lamm and Geron Christian. Which is to say, I think he's a pro and he will find roster spots year-in, year-out. But only just so, more of a backup.

You end up taking him if others are unavailable and only if you don't have a better idea at a different position.

That may sound harsh but the problem I perceive with him is a ceiling issue. There are aspects of his technique and general posture that are really attractive and they do him credit when things are going well most of the time. But then you see things not go well, a fair amount, and you're kind of left with the impression that he's close to maxing out.

It's all fine and good to say "needs to get stronger" on a message board somewhere but where the rubber meets the road on that, you have to keep in mind that he's jumping to a league where everyone will be stronger than everyone he faced in college. So he, along with every single other prospect, already needed to get stronger. I don't generally love guys who give you the impression they need to get stronger to even consistently win against their fellow college players, because they already need to get stronger to jump from college defensive linemen to pro defensive linemen so that just doubles what you're asking and frankly adding weight has a dubious record of actually impacting these players' functional strength.

Duncan also does not seem to be a high effort/intensity player from what I can see. You can make up for some of those ceiling issues with that. I think Bergeron maybe a good example. But alas. I'd call him another Liam Eichenberg, but I think that might be a little unfair to Eichenberg as he was a more attractive prospect coming out of Notre Dame.
 
Bob McGinn's quotes from scouts make Jaelyn Duncan sound like a SEVERE turd, for whatever it's worth.

They take issue with a lot of guys. They think Darnell Wright is entitled and doesn't work hard enough. They think Matthew Bergeron is a prick. Dawand Jones they're worried about weight issues and they don't like that he all but quit their pre-draft theatre after the 1st day of Senior Bowl practice. Character issues on Wanya Morris. Intelligence concerns on Steve Avila and Juice Scruggs if they were to play Center.

They love the character of Carter Warren, Blake Freeland, Cody Mauch, John Michael Schmitz, Olusugun Oluwatimi, and Alex Forsyth.
 
I refuse to trust stuff scouts anonymously share with reporters, they want that info out there for reasons that might not have anything to do with accuracy.
 
This OL class kinda sucks.

Seems like there are very few tackle prospects. Lots of “OTs” but really OGs.

One guy I like is Stromberg from Arky. Listed as a C but I think he can play any of the interior spots.

Also like Gaines a little from UCLA.

Most of these dudes have a lot of warts or are major projects.

Not too bad of a year of you need a guard
 
I think the reasons scouts express dissatisfaction with this OL class are two-fold.

1. A bunch of the "tackles" are frame-deficient thus a move to guard seems likely.
2. A bunch of them have character/work ethic question marks.

- Darnell Wright would be a fantastic prospect except he has an attitude and work ethic issue.
- Dawand Jones would be a fantastic prospect except he has weight and work ethic concerns.
- Peter Skoronski would be a fantastic prospect except he has a deficient frame for tackle.
- Steve Avila would be a fantastic prospect except there's concern if he has the IQ for Center.
- Cody Mauch would be a fantastic prospect except he's got bad frame.
- Blake Freeland would be a good prospect except he has strength deficiency which I think probably showed up in Combine workouts (not necessarily bench).
- Carter Warren would be a good prospect if not for some injury concerns.
- Tyler Steen would be a good prospect except he's got a bad frame for Tackle and will have to move.
- Wanya Morris would be a good prospect (former 5-star guy) except his attitude/character/work ethic seem untrustworthy.
- Matthew Bergeron would be a good prospect but his pass pro at Tackle is questionable, and he's evidently a "big prick".
- Jaelyn Duncan would be a good prospect except he has frame deficiency and an apparently REAL BAD personality (borderline untouchable).
- O'Cyrus Torrence would be a good prospect except he's a piss poor athlete.

The only guys that the scouts seem like they're allowed to feel good about checking all the boxes they need to check seem to be Paris Johnson Jr., John Michael Schmitz, Anton Harrison, Broderick Jones, and Joe Tippmann...and it's not like that group is Laremy Tunsil, Ronnie Stanley, Taylor Decker, and Jack Conklin from a talent standpoint.

All that said the thing about all those flags is they matter until they don't matter. Pre-draft you get yourself all worked up and anxious about the flags, and then post-draft the player you saw on film is the player you got and some of the above players are genuinely good players, even great players, on film.

So this OL class seems to me to be destined to be hated, yet have a fair number of good players.
 
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