2nd Rounder for Feeley

[gimmemybullits]

Hindsight is 20/20

Philly mgt, Saban and the rest of the NFL didn't need any hindsight about Feeley. He was 3rd string FOR A REASON nobody disputes that. The problem is the so fl fans who confuse what they might WANT with what they actually HAVE. For now Saban is stuck but not for long.

 

[BlueFin]

Yeah, it would have been nice of Speilman and Wanny to draft a QB for the next coach and GM, of course, saving their jobs was probably more important. Us as fans can sit here and say what should have been done or what we would have done but, it wasn't our a$$es on the line so, what do we care? The logic that Fineas brings is an explanation of why they went after who they did, not a hindsight aided look at what they could have done differently, especially when your plan would have involved certain failure to make the team better that year. It's wrong to assume that any first round QB is going to come in and save the franchise and I'd be willing to bet money that if Big Ben had been drafted here, he damn sure wouldn't be a household word right now, he'd more likely be getting just as much grief from the fans as Feeley is because he would have looked like a big turd playing behind that o-line just like any other QB that had to endure that torture last year in Miami.

I agree with much of what you stated.

Wannstedt and Spielman were in a panic mode last year in large part because of the ineptitude they displayed in the previous 4 years in acquiring overall talent.

Unfortunately the two men were tied together, promoting Spielman to GM accomplished very little as far a change in their approach to building this team. It would have been a better idea to bring in a new GM last year that had the long term future of this franchise as his directive (such as Randy Mueller).

No doubt you can claim this is hindsight, however, many including our current GM advised the Dolphins of what needed to be done then, Ron Wolfe walked out on them because they wouldn't listen. Many fans on this board also felt the path this team was on was a bad one and stated so here, so in another way its not totally hindsight.

Obviously Wannstedt and Spielman were trying to save their arses, but that still doesn't discount the fact that they failed horribly, in the end results are all that matters, not their intentions

 

[Dphins4me]

I think we should have got dan orlovsky in the 7th.Hes had a good preseason.He has the perfect build.6"5 he is good.Well at least better than feeley.But we should have never traded for feeley.

He was drafted in the 5th by Detriot.

 

[Dphins4me]

Yes. The Dolphins would have been better off not making the trade. The team essentially gave up a 2nd round pick for a back-up (assuming he is still 2nd string and doesn't lose out to Rosenfels/Berlin) quaterback. That is ridiculous. A lot of people blamed Wannstedt for not starting him over Fiedler but now Saban is playing him behind Frerotte. So I think it's time for people to stop saying he has the skills and potential and maybe ...just maybe...there's the possibility he isn't a very good NFL quaterback.

Coaches are simply not willing to go through the struggles you get with a inexperienced QB.

Besides the fact neither JF nor Gus have pulled away from him while both having extremely more knowledge of the offense says something about both his & their ability.

 

[Fineas]

Ask yourself, would you trade a 2nd round pick for Feeley? Would you trade a 2nd round pick for any 3rd string qb? More importantly would Saban make that trade? Why not? It's because a 3rd stringer is a 3rd stringer for a reason. Philly mgt is not stupid, in fact they are very successful. They deemed Feeley to be no better than a 3rd stringer, last option, bottom of barrel, emergency only qb and DEFINATELY NOT A STARTER and sure enough, true to form, Feeley is working his way down the depth chart. Why in the hell would anybody expect any different?

The point is that teams use 2nd round draft picks on guys who end up being 2nd or 3rd stringers all the time. In fact everyone taken after the first round in either of the last 2 drafts falls into that category.

As I said, I think we overpaid for him, but the other options were not so great either.

 

[His'nBeatYour'n]

...Regardless, the Feeley deal is indefensible along with virtually every other decision Spielman tortured in his year at the helm.

Yeah you can't defend drafting Carey, Hadnot and Will Poole. Two starters and one would be starter under "He's not Wannstedt so he must be a genius" Saban. I can't defend acquiring Wes Welker or Marty Booker either.

The man's point is simply that our QB situation wouldn't have been any better right now, regardless of the Feeley trade.

 

[BlueFin]

Yeah you can't defend drafting Carey, Hadnot and Will Poole. Two starters and one would be starter under "He's not Wannstedt so he must be a genius" Saban. I can't defend acquiring Wes Welker or Marty Booker either.

The man's point is simply that our QB situation wouldn't have been any better right now, regardless of the Feeley trade.

Not totally true, at least from the standpoint of having a young prospect.

Had we had the Feeley pick back and even the Lamar Gordon third rounder back its very possible Charlie Frye would be here today.

 

[Fineas]

Yes. The Dolphins would have been better off not making the trade. The team essentially gave up a 2nd round pick for a back-up (assuming he is still 2nd string and doesn't lose out to Rosenfels/Berlin) quaterback. That is ridiculous. A lot of people blamed Wannstedt for not starting him over Fiedler but now Saban is playing him behind Frerotte. So I think it's time for people to stop saying he has the skills and potential and maybe ...just maybe...there's the possibility he isn't a very good NFL quaterback.

Again, most 2nd round QBs are backups. Last year, Losman and Rivers were 1st rounders who were backups. This year, Smith, Rodgers and Campbell will all be backups. Patrick Ramsey was a No. 1 a few years ago and he was basically a backup last year. Marques Tuiasosopo and Qunicy Carter were no. 2s a few years ago, and their both backups. Tim Couch, Akili Smith and Cade McNown were high firsts in 1999 and they're all out of the league, as is Shaun King, who was a No. 2 that year. Ryan Leaf went the year before that and Charlie Batch was taken in the 2nd (and he may be on the verge of getting cut).

The whole point is that there is no guarantee (or even a confident assurance) that a 2nd round QB will ever be anything more than a backup.

 

[Fineas]

Not totally true, at least from the standpoint of having a young prospect.

Had we had the Feeley pick back and even the Lamar Gordon third rounder back its very possible Charlie Frye would be here today.

And what has Charlie Frye ever done in the NFL? He's currently listed as the No. 3 guy in Cleveland behind Trent Dilfer and Doug Johnson. That's just as ugly as our QB situation.

 

[NJFINSFAN1]

And what has Charlie Frye ever done in the NFL? He's currently listed as the No. 3 guy in Cleveland behind Trent Dilfer and Doug Johnson. That's just as ugly as our QB situation.

Frye has had a good camp, Dilfer will play this year, but Frye will be the starter next year.

 

[Fineas]

While your post makes sense, who said we were going to use a 2nd on a QB?? We could have used it on something else and taken Orton, Frye or somebody else with the Surtain pick.

Well, you'd agree that we'd then need a QB. Neither Orton nor Frye are goign to start on teams that have pretty pathetic QB situations. I wouldn't be feeling so much better about having Orton or Frye instead of Feeley. Maybe they will turn into something, but not this year and probably not next (and absolutely positively not last year).

 

[NJFINSFAN1]

Well, you'd agree that we'd then need a QB. Neither Orton nor Frye are goign to start on teams that have pretty pathetic QB situations. I wouldn't be feeling so much better about having Orton or Frye instead of Feeley. Maybe they will turn into something, but not this year and probably not next (and absolutely positively not last year).

Orton will start by week 5, and Frye will play this year. They both have better futures then any QB on our team.

 

[grendel]

I agree that giving up a 2nd rounder, that turned into a high 2nd, for Feeley was a mistake. I think we probably could have gotten him for less. But all the hand wringing about it is ridiculous. First, we gave up the pick a year away and conventional wisdom is that a 2nd rounder next year is like giving up a 3rd rounder this year. Second, no one disputes that quarterback was a serious need position at the time. Take a look at the QBs that were available after the 2nd rounder we traded for Feeley. No QBs were taken in the 2nd round this year, i.e., no NFL team felt there was a QB worthy of their second round pick. None. With the exception of Charlie Frye, all were still available when the Fins picked in the 3rd (and passed on every one of them). Of the guys that were taken in the 3rd or later, none are legitimately competing for a starting job this year. In fact, none are higher than 3rd string on their team's depth chart (except Kyle Orton in the aftermath of Rex Grossman's injury). So how much better would the Fins now be at QB if they had not made that trade?

Then look at last year's draft. None of the guys who were available in round 2 in 2004 are starters in the NFL. None are even legitimately competing for a starting job. The only ones who are even No. 2 QBs are Schaub behind Vick in Atlanta and Sorgi behind Manning in Indy. I will go out on a limb and say those guys will never win the starting jobs where they are. Of the guys who were taken in the 1st round last year, the jury is still out on Rivers and Losman. Roethlisberger obviously had a great year last year, but Eli Manning's numbers last year make Feeley's look good. And obviously, the Fins never had a shot at Manning, Roethlisberger or Rivers.

So, would the Fins have been better off if they had not made that trade for Feeley? Maybe at some other position, but not at QB. Would they be better at QB if they had brought in one of the high priced veterans that were available in 2004, e.g., Garcia, Brunell, Warner, Collins? Maybe, but not by a whole lot (and would have been worse from a cap perspective).

Dave, shouldn't you be screwing up the Pitt program instead of posting on phinheaven?

 

[BlueFin]

And what has Charlie Frye ever done in the NFL? He's currently listed as the No. 3 guy in Cleveland behind Trent Dilfer and Doug Johnson. That's just as ugly as our QB situation.

The point is the future of the quarterback position here would have been better.

What happens this year is really not as important as the long term, I for one would feel better with Charlie Frye on this team and learning than I do with a 28 year old Feeley here.

We had in my opinion two mediocre QB's here already in Jay and Sage, adding Feeley just adds one more, if we had a Charlie Frye here we would at least have the possibility of hitting on something good for the future.

 

[gimmemybullits]

The point is that teams use 2nd round draft picks on guys who end up being 2nd or 3rd stringers all the time. In fact everyone taken after the first round in either of the last 2 drafts falls into that category.

As I said, I think we overpaid for him, but the other options were not so great either.

IMO it's not the same situation. In Feeleys case you already KNEW what you were getting. He was already deemed to be no better than a 3rd stringer for years by competent people whereas with a draft chioce you have at least the possibility to get a high caliber player. This deal had little if any chance. How would you feel if Saban brought in somebody elses 3rd string qb? Not very happy I suspect. Every team needs a legit starter but why expect a confirmed 3rd stringer to perform like one.