2nd Rounder for Feeley

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

IMO it's not the same situation. In Feeleys case you already KNEW what you were getting. He was already deemed to be no better than a 3rd stringer for years by competent people whereas with a draft chioce you have at least the possibility to get a high caliber player. This deal had little if any chance. How would you feel if Saban brought in somebody elses 3rd string qb? Not very happy I suspect. Every team needs a legit starter but why expect a confirmed 3rd stringer to perform like one.

are you serious?

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Yeah you can't defend drafting Carey, Hadnot and Will Poole. Two starters and one would be starter under "He's not Wannstedt so he must be a genius" Saban. I can't defend acquiring Wes Welker or Marty Booker either.

The man's point is simply that our QB situation wouldn't have been any better right now, regardless of the Feeley trade.

Trading the 4th in the Carey deal was the most infantile and overmatched move by any GM in recent league history. The worst poker player on the planet wouldn't buckle like that. Perhaps only rivaled by donating a #2 for Feeley. None of this is hindsight and it doesn't matter if Feeley and Carey make 10 consecutive Pro Bowls. That is what the posters here seem clueless about. You don't overpay and get away with it in a business as competitive and balanced as the NFL. Spielman was a walking advertisement for incompetent estimation of proper value.

I wrote almost every Spielman move was indefensible. The two primary exceptions were Will Poole and David Boston and I have praised those acquisitions many times. Both got hurt subsequent to joining us but that means squat. Picking up very talented players at those rates will bonanza if repeated often enough. Welker was obviously a gem. A week or two earlier Spielman thought someone else was better, the guy who dropped the ball 3 or 4 times at Cincinnati. I noticed you didn't mention Tony Pape or David Bua. Scant months ago both of those names were being heralded by Spielman apologists. The current fad is Rex Hadnot. He looks like a good find in the 6th round, strong and tenacious if not particularly quick. But hardly a great athlete and difference maker like Ogunleye at DE. Hadnot is the type you must surround with terrific players. It's a pathetic commentary on the rest of our OL talent if we're giddy about Rex Hadnot.

Little Marty Booker and a 3rd wasn't even close to adequate compensation for a primetime young DE like Ogunleye. Others may have memories of Booker in Chicago. I'm basing judgement on the contemporary Marty Booker and it ain't impressive. Marginal talent like Booker and Gordon does nothing to help this franchise regain playoff caliber. Under Spielman's year as GM we lost a very competent RT in Todd Wade, overpaid handsomely for a mediocre DB in Reggie Howard, damn near gave away the farm for a hobbled Damion McIntosh, probably had every member of the Rams organization restraining laughter while offering a 3rd for Gordon, and amazingly turned the name A.J. Feeley into something other than "incredibly mediocre and obscure 3rd string Philly fan favorite with hot girlfriend."

 

[gimmemybullits]

are you serious?

I bet they couldn't get a conditional 7th rounder in 2012 for Feeley right now. He has little value to anybody else. He is working his way DOWN the depth chart in qb starved Miami as per Saban. That's a fact. He couldn't beat out Feidler and he can't beat out Gus (two backups themselves). That's a fact. He has value only in the eyes of fans who have unrealistically 'endowed' him with false value because a high draft choice was given for him not because he has done anything to earn it. IMO Endowment effect not quality from the folks who traded a big pick for him is the main reason he got a few starts last year.

 

[Fineas]

Orton will start by week 5, and Frye will play this year. They both have better futures then any QB on our team.

Brock Berlin has had a better preseason that Frye or Orton. Does that mean he has a great future too?

 

[Fineas]

I think we should have got dan orlovsky in the 7th.Hes had a good preseason.He has the perfect build.6"5 he is good.Well at least better than feeley.But we should have never traded for feeley.

Orlovsky has a QB rating this preseason of 48.7 with no TDs and 2 ints. Since that is his entire NFL resume, I'm not impressed.

 

[Fineas]

I bet they couldn't get a conditional 7th rounder in 2012 for Feeley right now. He has little value to anybody else. He is working his way DOWN the depth chart in qb starved Miami as per Saban. That's a fact. He couldn't beat out Feidler and he can't beat out Gus (two backups themselves). That's a fact. He has value only in the eyes of fans who have unrealistically 'endowed' him with false value because a high draft choice was given for him not because he has done anything to earn it. IMO Endowment effect not quality from the folks who traded a big pick for him is the main reason he got a few starts last year.

I'm not saying he's great or even good. But there weren't a lot of great options, either in the last 2 drafts or free agency.

 

[gimmemybullits]

I'm not saying he's great or even good. But there weren't a lot of great options, either in the last 2 drafts or free agency.

You are 100% correct, there are not a lot of options. We are stuck for now. Just like everybody else I want the Fins to succeed and it's sad that we are reduced to having to HOPE for good qb play.

 

[inFINSible]

I agree with much of what you stated.

Wannstedt and Spielman were in a panic mode last year in large part because of the ineptitude they displayed in the previous 4 years in acquiring overall talent.

Unfortunately the two men were tied together, promoting Spielman to GM accomplished very little as far a change in their approach to building this team. It would have been a better idea to bring in a new GM last year that had the long term future of this franchise as his directive (such as Randy Mueller).

No doubt you can claim this is hindsight, however, many including our current GM advised the Dolphins of what needed to be done then, Ron Wolfe walked out on them because they wouldn't listen. Many fans on this board also felt the path this team was on was a bad one and stated so here, so in another way its not totally hindsight.

Obviously Wannstedt and Spielman were trying to save their arses, but that still doesn't discount the fact that they failed horribly, in the end results are all that matters, not their intentions

Ron Wolfe also endorsed AJ Feeley. The point is, anybody can sit here and say what should have been done or what they would have done but, the facts of he time support that AJ feeley was one of the few options that would not only be possible immediate help but, also long term goodness if their gamble paid off.

At least they didn't overpay for Mark Brunnel.

You can't just rewrite history to make it fit what would have been good moves, you have to consider everything that went into the decision. Yes, the end results leave much to be desired but, to sit here and say there were so many other options is just ignoring the facts of the situation.

 

[inFINSible]

I bet they couldn't get a conditional 7th rounder in 2012 for Feeley right now. He has little value to anybody else. He is working his way DOWN the depth chart in qb starved Miami as per Saban. That's a fact. He couldn't beat out Feidler and he can't beat out Gus (two backups themselves). That's a fact. He has value only in the eyes of fans who have unrealistically 'endowed' him with false value because a high draft choice was given for him not because he has done anything to earn it. IMO Endowment effect not quality from the folks who traded a big pick for him is the main reason he got a few starts last year.

Show me one quote from anyone associated with the Miami Dolphins that says Feeley is in danger of falling passed the second string position.

That's nothing but, BS.

 

[so-long-Ricky]

Hindsight is usually 20/20.....but in this case it's really not. I have about a half dozen friends (*******s :tongue: ) that are Fin fans and all of them were outraged by the trade for Feely when it occurred. You guys were in need of a QB but that trade was Wannys way rolling the dice and praying that AJ would amount to something to save his job.

 

[inFINSible]

Hindsight is usually 20/20.....but in this case it's really not. I have about a half dozen friends (*******s :tongue: ) that are Fin fans and all of them were outraged by the trade for Feely when it occurred. You guys were in need of a QB but that trade was Wannys way rolling the dice and praying that AJ would amount to something to save his job.

Wrong, AJ was Speilman's pick....Wanny wanted nothing to do with him and it showed.
Your post doesn't make a lick of sense if you had the patience to read this thread before you posted, of course you had friends that cried about AJ Feeley, they probably never even heard of him but, ask those same idiots, what their big QB acquisition would have been, and remind them that he has to be a starter from the day he got here, and young so he has a future, and cap friendly so we could make other acquisitions that were needed last year....

I'll hold my breath waiting for them to come up with somebody besides AJ Feeley that would have fit all those criteria...

 

[so-long-Ricky]

Wrong, AJ was Speilman's pick....Wanny wanted nothing to do with him and it showed.
Your post doesn't make a lick of sense if you had the patience to read this thread before you posted, of course you had friends that cried about AJ Feeley, they probably never even heard of him but, ask those same idiots, what their big QB acquisition would have been, and remind them that he has to be a starter from the day he got here, and young so he has a future, and cap friendly so we could make other acquisitions that were needed last year....

I'll hold my breath waiting for them to come up with somebody besides AJ Feeley that would have fit all those criteria...

Wrong again oh opinionated one. 1st off, I could care less how you try to "spin" it but giving up a 2nd round pick for a 3rd string QB is ludicrist.

Secondly to even suggest my friends didn't even know who AJ was is moronic. Since the people you question have been in fantasy football for over ten years wouldn't you think that they would know if McNab is out for mutilple game attributed to injury??? Just because your friends have limited knowledge on what player is on what team is your problem, don't pawn off your issues on me.

Thirdly, according to your logic you were in such desparate need for a QB that under any circumstances Miami attempt to get one. Wrong, if there is no quality QB's available on the FA market you don't just recklessly give away high picks on a remote possibility. In that case, you stick with what you have until something of value is available.

Also, after reading some of your previous posts try to keep the personal attacks to yourself. I'm not sure if your aware of it but not only does it make your discussions appear childish and takes away from the main discussion, it also just makes people want to flame back. Someone like yourself with the amount of posts you have should know better......

 

[His'nBeatYour'n]

Trading the 4th in the Carey deal was the most infantile and overmatched move by any GM in recent league history. The worst poker player on the planet wouldn't buckle like that. Perhaps only rivaled by donating a #2 for Feeley. None of this is hindsight and it doesn't matter if Feeley and Carey make 10 consecutive Pro Bowls. That is what the posters here seem clueless about. You don't overpay and get away with it in a business as competitive and balanced as the NFL. Spielman was a walking advertisement for incompetent estimation of proper value.

I wrote almost every Spielman move was indefensible. The two primary exceptions were Will Poole and David Boston and I have praised those acquisitions many times. Both got hurt subsequent to joining us but that means squat. Picking up very talented players at those rates will bonanza if repeated often enough. Welker was obviously a gem. A week or two earlier Spielman thought someone else was better, the guy who dropped the ball 3 or 4 times at Cincinnati. I noticed you didn't mention Tony Pape or David Bua. Scant months ago both of those names were being heralded by Spielman apologists. The current fad is Rex Hadnot. He looks like a good find in the 6th round, strong and tenacious if not particularly quick. But hardly a great athlete and difference maker like Ogunleye at DE. Hadnot is the type you must surround with terrific players. It's a pathetic commentary on the rest of our OL talent if we're giddy about Rex Hadnot.

Little Marty Booker and a 3rd wasn't even close to adequate compensation for a primetime young DE like Ogunleye. Others may have memories of Booker in Chicago. I'm basing judgement on the contemporary Marty Booker and it ain't impressive. Marginal talent like Booker and Gordon does nothing to help this franchise regain playoff caliber. Under Spielman's year as GM we lost a very competent RT in Todd Wade, overpaid handsomely for a mediocre DB in Reggie Howard, damn near gave away the farm for a hobbled Damion McIntosh, probably had every member of the Rams organization restraining laughter while offering a 3rd for Gordon, and amazingly turned the name A.J. Feeley into something other than "incredibly mediocre and obscure 3rd string Philly fan favorite with hot girlfriend."

Giving up that 4th was dumb, dumb, dumb. But Carey is a starter.

Pape was a promising prospect but he retired. What can you do?
Bua has stuck around. He may still. But having these guys and Pope still around, means the entire Spielman headed draft is still around as of right now. More than I can say for any of JJ's drafts with Miami, whose only real talent was in evaluating other talent. Half of his picks were cut by the end of camp.

Hadnot as a 6th round pick and current starter is better than most teams do with a 6th. About that yeah, I'm giddy. Why not.

You wan't Ogunleye back on this team, go get him. And pay for him too. With our old defense Jason Taylor got all the double teams and slide protections thrown his way. Because of that O-Gun was expendable, and was a holdout. A thir, plus a starter at WR. Yeah I'd do that again.
Didn't David Bowens have more sacks than O-Gun last year?

You say Boston was a good pick up but he's behind Booker on the depth chart. What say you?

You want to go overpay for Todd Wade. Go do it.

Reggie Howard, starter.

The Farm for current starter McIntosh? Hardly.

Gordon? I agree.

I wrote almost every Spielman move was indefensible.

I write; almost every claim you make about Spielman was defensible.

 

[Eshlemon]

Trading the 4th in the Carey deal was the most infantile and overmatched move by any GM in recent league history. The worst poker player on the planet wouldn't buckle like that. Perhaps only rivaled by donating a #2 for Feeley. None of this is hindsight and it doesn't matter if Feeley and Carey make 10 consecutive Pro Bowls. That is what the posters here seem clueless about. You don't overpay and get away with it in a business as competitive and balanced as the NFL. Spielman was a walking advertisement for incompetent estimation of proper value.

I wrote almost every Spielman move was indefensible. The two primary exceptions were Will Poole and David Boston and I have praised those acquisitions many times. Both got hurt subsequent to joining us but that means squat. Picking up very talented players at those rates will bonanza if repeated often enough. Welker was obviously a gem. A week or two earlier Spielman thought someone else was better, the guy who dropped the ball 3 or 4 times at Cincinnati. I noticed you didn't mention Tony Pape or David Bua. Scant months ago both of those names were being heralded by Spielman apologists. The current fad is Rex Hadnot. He looks like a good find in the 6th round, strong and tenacious if not particularly quick. But hardly a great athlete and difference maker like Ogunleye at DE. Hadnot is the type you must surround with terrific players. It's a pathetic commentary on the rest of our OL talent if we're giddy about Rex Hadnot.

Little Marty Booker and a 3rd wasn't even close to adequate compensation for a primetime young DE like Ogunleye. Others may have memories of Booker in Chicago. I'm basing judgement on the contemporary Marty Booker and it ain't impressive. Marginal talent like Booker and Gordon does nothing to help this franchise regain playoff caliber. Under Spielman's year as GM we lost a very competent RT in Todd Wade, overpaid handsomely for a mediocre DB in Reggie Howard, damn near gave away the farm for a hobbled Damion McIntosh, probably had every member of the Rams organization restraining laughter while offering a 3rd for Gordon, and amazingly turned the name A.J. Feeley into something other than "incredibly mediocre and obscure 3rd string Philly fan favorite with hot girlfriend."

The Carey trade wasn't even "the worst" during the 2004 draft. Detroit dupped Cleveland into giving their 2nd to move up one spot to get Kellen Winslow.

 

[jlfin]

Yes. The Dolphins would have been better off not making the trade. The team essentially gave up a 2nd round pick for a back-up (assuming he is still 2nd string and doesn't lose out to Rosenfels/Berlin) quaterback. That is ridiculous. A lot of people blamed Wannstedt for not starting him over Fiedler but now Saban is playing him behind Frerotte. So I think it's time for people to stop saying he has the skills and potential and maybe ...just maybe...there's the possibility he isn't a very good NFL quaterback.

A 2nd round pick for a backup QB isn't that bad a deal. The consensus nowadays is that you need 2 decent QB's on your roster due to all the blitzing by NFL defenses. There have been some seasons where there have been a lot of injuries to starting QB's.
Also, it's not a given that any 2nd rounder will make an impact. Some do become busts.