4 those on the fire Sparono wagon...

[Nublar7]

Im still waiting for Nubs to post Cowher's accomplishments in his first 3 seasons with Pittsburgh and explain how he would possibly get fired or how any fan would suggest he shouldve been.

I get sick of that completely flawed 15 years to win a SB argument as if Cowher was 7-9 garbage every year for the first 14. Yea, a guy is going to consistantly win for us and there is no way he sticks 15 years just because he hasnt won a SB yet..... GET REAL.

You wont get a response. I got into the same debate a couple of days ago with a "Cowher didnt win until year 15"-ite, and the discussion ended when I posted Cowher's accomplishments prior to 2006. Nobody here would be thrilled with a SB loss, but i can guarantee 99% of this board would be tickled pink with the progress of this regime if we were in the SB last year.

I'd take a playoff win...or even a winning record at this point...wait, who am i kidding? just gimme an offensive gameplan that wasnt devised before the advent of the forward pass.

How about you give me a chance to actually respond before saying I won't? WV, you only gave me a grand total of 23 minutes between your post and saying you were "still waiting". I do sleep and have other things going on in my life, sorry I didn't respond to you at 11:30 PM last night.

My point with Cowher was not that Tony had a better first three years. Never said said that. Though I will point out that Cowher inherited a team coming off a 25-23 record over the previous three years while Sparano inherited a team coming off a 16-32 record the previous three years. Just saying...........

The whole point with Cowher is that it did take him 14 or 15 seasons to win a Super Bowl. Isn't that the goal of the fans for the Miami Dolphins? My point was not really about Cowher, but the patience of Dolphins fans. Tony inherited the worst team in Miami Dolphins history, and in three seasons has a winning record, a playoff berth and a Division title. The result? Fans are calling for his head and change. In just THREE SEASONS. What if Cowher doesn't win a Super Bowl in his first three or four seasons in Miami? Would you be calling for his head, or would you have patience? Even if I told you that if we hired Cowher in 2012 that he would win a Super Bowl in 2027 if we just stick with him. Would you have the patience to sit back and be OK with that? Highly doubt it. If you don't win a championship in two years, Dolphins fans are already looking for the next sexy hire. That is a fact. Cowher is a good coach, and likely would be an IMPROVEMENT over Sparano, but do Dolphins fans really have the patience to let him build his team? Doubt it.

No coach is going to walk into Miami and be accepted if they don't win within two or three seasons. Ownership is always the easy ones to blame, but it is the low patience level of the fan base that seems to drive these big name coaches to failure and premature exits. Jimmy Johnson tried to quit, Nick Saban did quit and Bill Parcells couldn't wait to leave. Two different owners and three very similar results. Odd isn't it?

Also, I think we can all forget about Cowher anyways. IMO, Gruden and Fisher are on the top of Ross's wish list if he decides a change is needed. Which I don't think it will be.

 

[Dolph N.Fan]

And how many AFC championship games did Cowher lose at home prior to winning a Superbowl? Was it 4 (SD, Den, NE twice)? Would Sparano have survived such a record? Plus, Cowher had the advantage of competing in a very dysfunctional division with little competition. Like it or not, Sparano took a 1-15 team to 11-5 and a division title. You can say Brady was hurt and the schedule was weak. Bottom line is 3 other teams in the division played essentially the same schedule and did worse. So it's unfair to say he's done nothing. Plus I think it speaks volumes that Jason Taylor was willing to come back and play for Sparano, admitting that his issues were entirely with Parcells. There is a lot to be said that players like playing for him and that he maintains control of the locker room. And the 'hot' Belicheck coordinators Mangini and McDaniels flamed out. So Nubs is correct, better to keep the stability until there is an epic collapse.

Lame, lame, and more lame. Sparano wishes he could survive long enough to lose a title game at home. PIT has lost more title games they Miami has gone to in the last 20 years. The division excuse is pathetic. PIT plays basically a 1st place schedule every year. They play brutally physical games with Baltimore twice a year. Eagles have lost how many title games? Yet Andy Reid still has a job. Why? Because the Eagles aren't stupid. They know losing the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs at all if they get rid of Reid. You don't get rid of coaches that keeps getting you to the playoffs...you get rid of the ones that don't get you there. Sparano is history. Only stability we have with Sparano is 7-9

Sparano has done nothing. I have a feeling Sparano is gone after this season and for some reason Ireland will be spared.

 

[BlueFin]

How about you give me a chance to actually respond before saying I won't? WV, you only gave me a grand total of 23 minutes between your post and saying you were "still waiting". I do sleep and have other things going on in my life, sorry I didn't respond to you at 11:30 PM last night.

My point with Cowher was not that Tony had a better first three years. Never said said that. Though I will point out that Cowher inherited a team coming off a 25-23 record over the previous three years while Sparano inherited a team coming off a 16-32 record the previous three years. Just saying...........

The whole point with Cowher is that it did take him 14 or 15 seasons to win a Super Bowl. Isn't that the goal of the fans for the Miami Dolphins? My point was not really about Cowher, but the patience of Dolphins fans. Tony inherited the worst team in Miami Dolphins history, and in three seasons has a winning record, a playoff berth and a Division title. The result? Fans are calling for his head and change. In just THREE SEASONS. What if Cowher doesn't win a Super Bowl in his first three or four seasons in Miami? Would you be calling for his head, or would you have patience? Even if I told you that if we hired Cowher in 2012 that he would win a Super Bowl in 2027 if we just stick with him. Would you have the patience to sit back and be OK with that? Highly doubt it. If you don't win a championship in two years, Dolphins fans are already looking for the next sexy hire. That is a fact. Cowher is a good coach, and likely would be an IMPROVEMENT over Sparano, but do Dolphins fans really have the patience to let him build his team? Doubt it.

No coach is going to walk into Miami and be accepted if they don't win within two or three seasons. Ownership is always the easy ones to blame, but it is the low patience level of the fan base that seems to drive these big name coaches to failure and premature exits. Jimmy Johnson tried to quit, Nick Saban did quit and Bill Parcells couldn't wait to leave. Two different owners and three very similar results. Odd isn't it?

Also, I think we can all forget about Cowher anyways. IMO, Gruden and Fisher are on the top of Ross's wish list if he decides a change is needed. Which I don't think it will be.

You act like winning superbowls is so easy that a great coach should do it regularly.

Don Shula coached for 30+ years and only won 2. Cowher may have taken 15 years to finally win it, but his team contended and actually got there (the superbowl) long before 15 years.

And how did Cowher finally win it? His organization finally invested in a franchise QB in round 1.

 

[Nublar7]

You act like winning superbowls is so easy that a great coach should do it regularly.

Don Shula coached for 30+ years and only won 2. Cowher may have taken 15 years to finally win it, but his team contended and actually got there (the superbowl) long before 15 years.

And how did Cowher finally win it? His organization finally invested in a franchise QB in round 1.

But do Dolphins fans have the patience to give him the time? No one seems to be able to answer that one.

 

[Dolphins12thMan]

That is what people don't think about, all they care about is getting rid of Tony. Cowher? The guy that took 15 years to win a Super Bowl? Most couldn't even give Tony three seasons, no way Cowher would get the time he needs. Gruden? Won a Super Bowl with Dungy's players and quickly became hated by his players. Some hot shot flavor of the year coordinator, who if he doesn't win in year one will be start being called to be replaced? Another college coach? Can you say a Saban repeat? Worst yet, what happens it we end up with Mike Nolan? Ugh.

Just be careful what you wish for. Tony took over a 1-15 team and has a winning record over three years. Things could be a lot worse, like Nolan as head coach worse.

Cowher has been to the playoffs 10 times. 2 times he went to the superbowl winning one. That leaves 8 other playoff appearances, 6 of those 8 he lost to the eventual AFC champion and SB representative. IMO Ireland is more of the problem than Sparano

 

[nyashfan]

Lame, lame, and more lame. Sparano wishes he could survive long enough to lose a title game at home. PIT has lost more title games they Miami has gone to in the last 20 years. The division excuse is pathetic. PIT plays basically a 1st place schedule every year. They play brutally physical games with Baltimore twice a year. Eagles have lost how many title games? Yet Andy Reid still has a job. Why? Because the Eagles aren't stupid. They now losing the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs at all if they get rid of Reid. You don't get rid of coaches that keeps getting you to the playoffs...you get rid of the ones that don't get you there. Sparano is history. Only stability we have with Sparano is 7-9

Sparano has done nothing. I have a feeling Sparano is gone after this season and for some reason Ireland will be spared.

The original argument was that Cowher was great because he led the team to 6 consecutive playoff appearances from 1992-1997. The Ravens didn't exist until 1996 and they stunk until 2000. So the Steelers had to deal with the expansion Jaguars, Browns & Bengals for the most part. It's a little more challenging for the AFC East and AFC South teams who have to contend with Brady and Manning, two immortal players.

I never said Cowher was not a good coach. I was saying that if Sparano had all of the playoff appearances with as little success as Cowher did, that Dolphin fans would have called for his firing as well. The Steelers are successful because they promote a culture of stability and it paid off for them. At this point there is no reason for the Dolphins not to adhere to that priniciple.

 

[Dolphins12thMan]

That is what people don't think about, all they care about is getting rid of Tony. Cowher? The guy that took 15 years to win a Super Bowl? Most couldn't even give Tony three seasons, no way Cowher would get the time he needs. Gruden? Won a Super Bowl with Dungy's players and quickly became hated by his players. Some hot shot flavor of the year coordinator, who if he doesn't win in year one will be start being called to be replaced? Another college coach? Can you say a Saban repeat? Worst yet, what happens it we end up with Mike Nolan? Ugh.

Just be careful what you wish for. Tony took over a 1-15 team and has a winning record over three years. Things could be a lot worse, like Nolan as head coach worse.

Back to back losing seasons for Sparano.....he only has a winning record bc of the 11-5 season. In those 11 wins during that yr, they came against opponents that had a combined record of 70-104 a 40% winning percentage...not that good

 

[ChambersWI]

living in PA my entire life, and Nubs can probably back me up with this, people wanted Cowher out for a long time but the Rooney's had faith. Really the late 90's on, people wanted him out. Even after he won the Super Bowl, Pittsburgh people wanted him out. Trust me, I've lived in either Pittsburgh or Harrisburg my entire life. I'm the only person in my family who is not a Steeler fan. That being said, getting Cowher out of retirement will be tough. It's not that he wants full control, he wants Kevin Colbert (who won't leave Pittsburgh) or Omar Kahn.

Gruden won't happen. I think he's a good offensive guy, but 1)He can never settle on a QB 2)He does tend to have players quit on him. I mean look at who all started games at QB under Gruden; Brad Johnson, Rob Johnson, Shaun King, Chris Simms, Brian Griese, Jeff Garcia, Bruce Gradkowski, Tim Rattay, Luke McCown and he wanted Jake Plummer to be starter after Garcia had a pro bowl year but Plummer retired. Plus, he probably doesn't win a Super Bowl if he hadn't created Oakland's playbook which allowed a bunch of future HoFers like Brooks, Lynch, Barber, and Sapp to dissect the offense.

If/When Sparano is fired, we need to make the right hire. Not a big name, not in house, not the OC/DC of the month, but the right guy

 

[nyashfan]

Back to back losing seasons for Sparano.....he only has a winning record bc of the 11-5 season. In those 11 wins during that yr, they came against opponents that had a combined record of 70-104 a 40% winning percentage...not that good

But in 1998 and 1999, Cowher's records were 7-9 followed by 6-10. In 2000, Cowher was 9-7. So he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row after 6 straight playoff appearances. Sounds as though Cowher had forgotten how to coach. Good thing they decided not to fire him. And you can't discount Sparano's division title. The Jets had Brett Favre and were coached by Mangenious. They were 8-3, having just beaten undefeated 10-0 Tennessee on the road. And then they collapsed while the Dolphins ran the table.

 

[Gonzo]

A lot of people thought Wanny was a great coach until it was too late as well.

He just needed more time! Plus, it was all his coordinators' faults.

 

[BlueFin]

But do Dolphins fans have the patience to give him the time? No one seems to be able to answer that one.

I can only speak for myself, and the answer is a resounding yes!

Just look at the last 11 years to see how many years can be wasted, I'll gladly roll the dice on a well researched top prospect for few years

 

[BlueFin]

But in 1998 and 1999, Cowher's records were 7-9 followed by 6-10. In 2000, Cowher was 9-7. So he missed the playoffs 3 years in a row after 6 straight playoff appearances. Sounds as though Cowher had forgotten how to coach. Good thing they decided not to fire him. And you can't discount Sparano's division title. The Jets had Brett Favre and were coached by Mangenious. They were 8-3, having just beaten undefeated 10-0 Tennessee on the road. And then they collapsed while the Dolphins ran the table.

The difference is Cowher had already led a team to the Superbowl and many playoff appearances. He got a pass while the team regrouped.

Sparano does not have those credentials to fall back on, most credit the 11-5 2008 season to an unbelievably weak schedule and career year from Chad Pennington (again pointing out the importance of the QB position).

 

[ChambersWI]

Cowher made a lot of poor decisions in those few years. Not that others don't, but you think the Sparano and Henne haters are bad, you should have heard the Cowher and Kordell haters. Pittsburgh was calling for Marvin Lewis or Dom Capers (2 of Cowher's top assistants when he first took the job) to come home, and every year fans were hoping for somebody to replace Kordell; whether it was Tee Martin, Charlie Batch, or Tommy Maddox.

 

[MP-Omnis]

How ****ing hard is it to spell someone's name right?

 

[Johnny O]

Back to back losing seasons for Sparano.....he only has a winning record bc of the 11-5 season. In those 11 wins during that yr, they came against opponents that had a combined record of 70-104 a 40% winning percentage...not that good

Thats a better opponent winning percentage then the 72' Dolphins.