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A little insight into Saban & discipline

BillsChamps2oo5 said:
We will see.

Saban seems like a my way or the highway type of guy. I like him. He knows his stuff, but even Belichek took more than one chance to get it right. NE wasnt his first Head coaching job.

Yes we will.

Saban was in Cleveland with BB. In fact, Saban coached the best part of that team. Not only is Saban a great coach who has succedded everywhere he's been, he has the advantage of having watched BB fail in Cleveland up close. I think there is very little chance that Saban will fail. I'm not saying that he'll have BB's success or even that I think he's a better coach than BB right now, just that he is a very good coach (IMO much better than BB was when he started at Cleveland) with NFL experience and that the personalities you compared him to are not similar. Most people who know Saban compare his personality to either Shula or Chuck Noll. This doesn't guarantee success or a SB in 3 years, but it would be foolish to bet against his success.
 
chrisjp said:
I Hate The Bills And They Will Suffer For Getting Rid Of Bledsoe!!

Are you serious? Suffer because we got rid of a guy who had 39TDs and 38 INTs over his last 40 games. Not to mention his 26 LOST fumbles over that same time. A guy with a QB rating of about 73 in those games.

SO wait a second. Let me just get this totally clear.

The Bills will suffer for getting rid of Drew Bledsoe because of his less than 1 TD pass per game in his last 40 games OR his 64 turnovers in his last 40 games OR his 73-74 QB rating in his last 40 games?

WHich one is it. Im having a hard time choosing the one we will suffer from most.
 
What I'm trying to get across is this. Being a "power trip" coach is fine as long as you are wininng. But if the team starts to go south all the discipline and getting in players faces gets real old real fast(see Tom C in Jacksonville, G.Williams in Buffalo, B.Davis in Cleveland, Jim Mora in Indy, Buddy Ryan Arizona). If players just see a coach blowing up on the sidelines b/c of one mistake and he keeps doing it all there going to think is he has lost control of himself, so there is no way hes is in any condition to be in controll of this team. Plus NFL players and other coaches do not give a crap what he did in college right now. In the NFL hes nothing but a rookie head coach w/ alot to prove.




After saying all that, I am not saying that he is going to bomb as a head coach. I just have an opinion on his style of coaching and I tend not to agree w/ it.
 
rafael said:
Yes we will.

Saban was in Cleveland with BB. In fact, Saban coached the best part of that team. Not only is Saban a great coach who has succedded everywhere he's been, he has the advantage of having watched BB fail in Cleveland up close. I think there is very little chance that Saban will fail. I'm not saying that he'll have BB's success or even that I think he's a better coach than BB right now, just that he is a very good coach (IMO much better than BB was when he started at Cleveland) with NFL experience and that the personalities you compared him to are not similar. Most people who know Saban compare his personality to either Shula or Chuck Noll. This doesn't guarantee success or a SB in 3 years, but it would be foolish to bet against his success.

The fact that he has been in the NFL before means absolutley nothing. I mean, how many Head coaches a year get hired off of other NFL coaching staffs.

The fact is that he never was a head coach in the NFL. To say that he will be successful because he was a defensive coordinator back when the Bills were going to superbowls every year doesnt mean a thing.

The NFL is much different. You dont get better players than the majority of the teams you play. I just dont know why Dolphin fans feel he is a guaranteed success.

Steve Spurrior didnt coach NFL but he was the head coach in the USFL when many top players were playing in that league. He never failed as a coach, until he went to the NFL.

Saban is not a sure thing. Ive seen great coaches have bad years in the NFL. Its just a totally different game and environment.
 
T.K.O. said:
There is only ONE thing you need to know. If Chambers, Taylor, Thomas, and McMichael all go to your owner and say were not playing for him hes a moron, guess what? Those 4 are not the ones going, its Saben.


Big deal about players and coaches respecting him already. The same things were said about B.Davis and S.Spurrier.



By the way just b/c I misspelled his name doesn't mean I don't know anything about him, get a clue

I don't know whether Saban will be a great coach, but I get your point. I believe it is a player's league, but the coach has to have some authority. I think Tom Coughlin type coaches won't work for a long time, but I hope Saban is not like him at all. Spurrier failed because he could not adjust to the league, if Saban can make an adjustment to the league I think he'll be a fine coach, but it'll definately take a few games. All new head coaches go through a transition period where they adjust to the new team/game, look at your head coach in Mularkey who started 0-4, but finished strongly. Dan Snyder has/is looking for the "quick" fix for the head coach in Washington and rather than getting the best man for the job he got the best man to sell tickets the last few seasons for Washington, I did not have Saban listed as my 1st choice I had him rated right after Weis, but I think he will prove to be the right man for the job. It probably won't be right away and will get alot of people calling for his head because the team probably will struggle, but if given time he'll be very successful.
 
BillsChamps2oo5 said:
The fact that he has been in the NFL before means absolutley nothing. I mean, how many Head coaches a year get hired off of other NFL coaching staffs.

The fact is that he never was a head coach in the NFL. To say that he will be successful because he was a defensive coordinator back when the Bills were going to superbowls every year doesnt mean a thing.

The NFL is much different. You dont get better players than the majority of the teams you play. I just dont know why Dolphin fans feel he is a guaranteed success.

Steve Spurrior didnt coach NFL but he was the head coach in the USFL when many top players were playing in that league. He never failed as a coach, until he went to the NFL.

Saban is not a sure thing. Ive seen great coaches have bad years in the NFL. Its just a totally different game and environment.

Nobody's success is guaranteed, but Saban's skill set makes his success very likely.

He knows more about football than most. BB, who is considered one of the best football minds in the NFL, says that he learned more from Saban than Saban learned from him.

He is well known for his ability to adapt to his players strengths. That was how he elevated the Cleveland D to one of the best in history when it was a mediocre defense just before his arrival.

He is a great recruiter. That was evident in college. In todays NFL you must be able to attract FAs. Money and weather are still big factors, but as a southern city with no state income tax, he'll have an additional advantage.

He is a leader/motivator. The consistent opinion everyone has of him is that he is "impressive". Players and coaches want to work for him.

He is excellent at evaluating talent. He actually designed the criteria that NE uses to evaluate players. At LSU he was renown for finding diamonds in the rough and turning them into great players.

He is surrounded by an experienced coaching staff. Linehan, Houck and Phillips are considered among the best in the business and brings years of NFL experience.

There's more, but to cut this short, all the elements of success are there and the pitfalls that befell other much hyped coaches (lack of adaptability, abrasive personalities, not supported by excellent coaching staffs, etc.) aren't. This doesn't mean he can't fail, but he is unlikely to fail in the same manner that previous college/NFL coaches have.
 
LSUTigah said:
I wanted to comment on this given the release of Quintin Williams and the impending return of Ricky Williams.

The release of Quinten Williams is totally in line with Saban's past. I would not call it a double standard, but Saban will have a short leash with a avg. and/or marginal player and a better player/starter will have a slightly longer leash. During his 5 years at LSU, Saban did kick starters off the team and he did take chances on quality (star) talent with a troubled past. But in the end, Saban never "let the inmates run the insylum". Saban's discipline may come in several forms. It could be to release the player or it could be a list of things the player will have to do to get back into good graces. Furthermore, he has been known to demote a player to a scout team player and have him earn his way back to starting (after meeting specified mandates)

One thing you can count on, Saban's discipline was never a slap on the wrist. You may see some coach suspend a player from starting the game, but the player ends up getting his usual minutes anyway. Saban would not hesitate to suspend a star player for, as an example, 1, 2, 3 games or more depending on the offense.

With the return of Ricky Williams, I have no doubt that Saban has given Ricky a list of things he needs to do or his butt will be gone. Saban may be a lot of things, but he has never let the discipline of a team get away from him. He will give people a chance or 2, and that's it.

Nice to hear. I didn't believe the people who were saying he is acting strangely by making some moves not in line with his past. But remember, we only know a bit of the information. He is not a blabbermouth to the press, and in cases like you describe (the details of a questionalble player's return) they probably appreciate the confidentiality.
 
rafael said:
Nobody's success is guaranteed, but Saban's skill set makes his success very likely.

He knows more about football than most. BB, who is considered one of the best football minds in the NFL, says that he learned more from Saban than Saban learned from him.

He is well known for his ability to adapt to his players strengths. That was how he elevated the Cleveland D to one of the best in history when it was a mediocre defense just before his arrival.

He is a great recruiter. That was evident in college. In todays NFL you must be able to attract FAs. Money and weather are still big factors, but as a southern city with no state income tax, he'll have an additional advantage.

He is a leader/motivator. The consistent opinion everyone has of him is that he is "impressive". Players and coaches want to work for him.

He is excellent at evaluating talent. He actually designed the criteria that NE uses to evaluate players. At LSU he was renown for finding diamonds in the rough and turning them into great players.

He is surrounded by an experienced coaching staff. Linehan, Houck and Phillips are considered among the best in the business and brings years of NFL experience.

There's more, but to cut this short, all the elements of success are there and the pitfalls that befell other much hyped coaches (lack of adaptability, abrasive personalities, not supported by excellent coaching staffs, etc.) aren't. This doesn't mean he can't fail, but he is unlikely to fail in the same manner that previous college/NFL coaches have.

I like Saban. Never said I didnt.

I like your staff.

I just dont get why everyone thinks Saban is the answer? Thats all.

Its always refreshing to get the new guy in there, but to think that he is the savior is just going too far. He is a 1st year head coach.

Will he fail? Who knows. Will he succeed? Who knows. It just seems Dolphin fans have already placed Saban in the same category as Belichek and Reid.

I like the guy, but let him coach an NFL game first. Its just like the people that are blind to see that Linehan had Moss, Culpepper, AND a top 5 offensive OL to work with. Moss and DC are not copied by anyone, they are special.
 
BillsChamps2oo5 said:
I like Saban. Never said I didnt.

I like your staff.

I just dont get why everyone thinks Saban is the answer? Thats all.

Its always refreshing to get the new guy in there, but to think that he is the savior is just going too far. He is a 1st year head coach.

Will he fail? Who knows. Will he succeed? Who knows. It just seems Dolphin fans have already placed Saban in the same category as Belichek and Reid.

I like the guy, but let him coach an NFL game first. Its just like the people that are blind to see that Linehan had Moss, Culpepper, AND a top 5 offensive OL to work with. Moss and DC are not copied by anyone, they are special.

Anybody who assumes he's a savior is going too far, but you make it sound like Saban's success is no more likely than any other coach. That's where I disagree. He has too much going for him. It's like saying that an athlete with sprinter speed is no more likely to win a 40 yd dash than the avg. guy sitting in a donut shop. There's no guarantee, but I'd put my money on the sprinter.

And yes, Moss and DC are special, but Linehan was able to adjust his offense to get production even when Moss was injured. So much so that Minn. felt comfortable enough to deal Moss away. The part I am worried about is the QB. If Saban never finds a QB then I think he may fail or at least not achieve SB success. I think he can match Wanny's success with journeymen QBs.
 
BillsChamps2oo5 said:
I like Saban. Never said I didnt.

I like your staff.

I just dont get why everyone thinks Saban is the answer? Thats all.

.


Come on man, don't make me put up a picture of Dave Wrongstadt. He alone makes me think that this team will have more success under Saban.
 
djfresh47 said:
I don't know whether Saban will be a great coach, but I get your point. I believe it is a player's league, but the coach has to have some authority. I think Tom Coughlin type coaches won't work for a long time, but I hope Saban is not like him at all. Spurrier failed because he could not adjust to the league, if Saban can make an adjustment to the league I think he'll be a fine coach, but it'll definately take a few games. All new head coaches go through a transition period where they adjust to the new team/game, look at your head coach in Mularkey who started 0-4, but finished strongly. Dan Snyder has/is looking for the "quick" fix for the head coach in Washington and rather than getting the best man for the job he got the best man to sell tickets the last few seasons for Washington, I did not have Saban listed as my 1st choice I had him rated right after Weis, but I think he will prove to be the right man for the job. It probably won't be right away and will get alot of people calling for his head because the team probably will struggle, but if given time he'll be very successful.




Thank You, that is pretty much what I was trying to say.
 
Who Is Number Is #7 For Buffalo???????? Is That Loserman??
 
rafael said:
Anybody who assumes he's a savior is going too far, but you make it sound like Saban's success is no more likely than any other coach. That's where I disagree. He has too much going for him. It's like saying that an athlete with sprinter speed is no more likely to win a 40 yd dash than the avg. guy sitting in a donut shop. There's no guarantee, but I'd put my money on the sprinter.

And yes, Moss and DC are special, but Linehan was able to adjust his offense to get production even when Moss was injured. So much so that Minn. felt comfortable enough to deal Moss away. The part I am worried about is the QB. If Saban never finds a QB then I think he may fail or at least not achieve SB success. I think he can match Wanny's success with journeymen QBs.

Thats exactly what Im saying. Saban's success is no more likely than any other NFL head coach.

Just look at Joe Gibbs. Tons of experience as a head coach, but didnt even know how to call the game anymore.

As for the Vikes. I showed in another post how the offense went from top 3 to around 20 when Moss was out. Culpepper threw for under 200 yards twice during thise time against 2 very bad pass defenses, Indy and the Titans. They were well over 400 yard a game with Moss starting and around 300-320 with him out. They had a losing record, but that means nothing, since the loss goes to the whole team. The only game the offense was close to what it was when Moss started was against GB, who had no CB's.
 
BillsChamps2oo5 said:
Thats exactly what Im saying. Saban's success is no more likely than any other NFL head coach.

Just look at Joe Gibbs. Tons of experience as a head coach, but didnt even know how to call the game anymore.

As for the Vikes. I showed in another post how the offense went from top 3 to around 20 when Moss was out. Culpepper threw for under 200 yards twice during thise time against 2 very bad pass defenses, Indy and the Titans. They were well over 400 yard a game with Moss starting and around 300-320 with him out. They had a losing record, but that means nothing, since the loss goes to the whole team. The only game the offense was close to what it was when Moss started was against GB, who had no CB's.

If all coaches have an equal chance of success then why even do a search? Why not save a ton of time and money and just pull a name out of a hat? The reason is that certain characteristics increase your likelihood of success. The reason soo many teams have courted Saban is b/c he matches the characteristics that most NFL teams feel successful coaches have. Your claim that all coaches have an equal chance of success makes no sense.

I looked for the post you referenced, but I couldn't find it. I'm guessing you posted it on another site. Anyways, Minn. averaged 24 pts per game in the 11 games Moss played in and 23 pts per game in the 5 games he didn't play in. Seems like the offense adjusted pretty well. In fact, after that first game where they thought Moss would play, but then didn't (they only scored 3 pts.), the offense adjusted and averaged 28 pts per game. Yards isn't a good measure b/c if your adjustments include more emphasis on the running game (which it did), then you will produce fewer yards and the game will be shortened.
 
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