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About Rosenhaus

grooves12 said:
Most of the veterans on this team have accepted less to stay with the Dolphins because this is where they want to be and it is THEIR decision, not their agents.

The difference is, those vetereans have made their money. They've seen (or are continuing to see) their biggest contracts. They've been "paid".

Wale continues to be an elite player who isn't getting "paid". I'll bet if we ask any of those veterans about Wale, they won't have one bad word to say about him in regards to this situation, because they know how these things work. They understand how the NFL works. And they understand his situation. They've been there.

In short, it's a business. And both sides are looking out for their best interest. I hope Wale gets signed sooner than later. Because the longer this thing drags on, the more of an adverse affect it has on Wale and his preparation.
 
99.9% of all the effective agents are scumbags, its just that Rosenhaus is the best at what he does, so he stands out. He watches plenty of the mini-camp, you should go say hi to him :lol:
 
Muck said:
The difference is, those vetereans have made their money. They've seen (or are continuing to see) their biggest contracts. They've been "paid".

Wale continues to be an elite player who isn't getting "paid". I'll bet if we ask any of those veterans about Wale, they won't have one bad word to say about him in regards to this situation, because they know how these things work. They understand how the NFL works. And they understand his situation. They've been there.

In short, it's a business. And both sides are looking out for their best interest. I hope Wale gets signed sooner than later. Because the longer this thing drags on, the more of an adverse affect it has on Wale and his preparation.

Yes, on the RE-structures... but Jason Taylor accepted FAR less than the going rate for DE's on his first major restructure. Patrick Surtain also took FAR less than the going rate for a shutdown corner. I'm willing to bet Chris Chambers does not ask for Terrell Owens money, just because he has put up more yards in his first 3 years. And, I bet when it comes time for Surtain to get restructured he is not gonna demand a $10million+ signing bonus to stay a Phin. Ricky Williams is the BEST example. He NEVER got paid on his original contract, and when we restructured him it was FAR below his market value, with nothing but an incentive-based contract. NO Signing Bonus, No average of top-5 running backs in the league. Just a fair pay for his production.

NONE of the current Dolphins have ever demanded to be paid as the highest paid player at their position, even though many of them have performed at that level. It is what has allowed this team to stay competitive and keep their star players around. Any player that is more motivated by money... should be given his walking papers, as those are always the players whose stats disappear once they get the big check. (I have a strong feeling Ogunleye is going to be one of those guys.)
 
But the fact remains that these guys signed big contracts to begin with. Wale's biggest contract was a $375K deal with small incentives. And on that contract he led the AFC in sacks and made the Pro Bowl. That was his second solid season in a row.

When the time to restructure comes, he'll restructure. But the fact remains that his contract is up. And it's his time to get paid. Chambers is still under contract. And to be fair....as talented as he is....he has not put up a season equal to Wale's 2003 (although Chambers had A LOT more working against him).
 
You missed my point, those guys took less money BEFORE they received their big paydays.

This is NO different than Jason Taylor signing his 1-year tender and playing under it even though he was coming off of a season where he had 14.5 sacks and was named the Dolphins Team MVP. He did not whine and cry about what other Defensive Ends got in free agency. He did what everyone else does and played by the rules outlined in the CBA, knowing he would eventually get paid.

He did not demand a trade when he was franchised the year after or air his dirty laundry to the media... he negotiated privately with the Phins and accepted a deal BELOW market value, because he wanted to be a Phin. (He received LESS than Marcellus Wiley did that same year, and MUCH less than other prominent defenders were getting.) It was a BIG contract... but it was fair to all sides involved and he did not make rediculous demands when he held no leverage as an RFA. He shut his mouth and let his play do the talking... Ogun should do the same.
 
it's the agents responsiblity to keep his/her client in the spotlight. the best way to do that is to creat a little controversy. never far from the public and in plain view of the FO...
 
Well someone said it best,"You do not poop where you eat!" DOLFANREAL69
 
grooves12 said:
You missed my point, those guys took less money BEFORE they received their big paydays.

This is NO different than Jason Taylor signing his 1-year tender and playing under it even though he was coming off of a season where he had 14.5 sacks and was named the Dolphins Team MVP. He did not whine and cry about what other Defensive Ends got in free agency. He did what everyone else does and played by the rules outlined in the CBA, knowing he would eventually get paid.

He did not demand a trade when he was franchised the year after or air his dirty laundry to the media... he negotiated privately with the Phins and accepted a deal BELOW market value, because he wanted to be a Phin. (He received LESS than Marcellus Wiley did that same year, and MUCH less than other prominent defenders were getting.) It was a BIG contract... but it was fair to all sides involved and he did not make rediculous demands when he held no leverage as an RFA. He shut his mouth and let his play do the talking... Ogun should do the same.

While I don't really have any argument that Ogunleye should not talk trash, I do have a problem with some players taking less money.

A restructured contract is usually for cap purposes. A simple restucture like Taylor's first was just guaranteeing base salary making it a signing bonus to reduce the player's cap charge. It is no sacrifice at all.

Taylor was drafted and received a signing bonus of about $345 thousand in 1997. From 97 to 99 he put up 16.5 sacks. In 2000 he did himself a great favor by playing for the one year tender and produced 14.5 sacks. In 2001 he signed a 6 year $42 million deal including a $9 million signing bonus. I am not getting down on Taylor as he has a well deserved excellent reputation. I just think we ought to look at things how they happened.

Marcellus Wiley:

Releasing Wiley, who signed a six-year, $40 million contract when coming to San Diego as a free agent in 2001, will cost the Chargers $4.5 million in cap space next season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1749613

$4.5/3*6=9 So it seems he also received a $9 million bonus.

Sam Madison's restructure this year was a pay cut. That's why he received some money up front. Some people think Sam caved in to management but I don't think so. It was a cut from $27.7 million to $18 over his remaining four years. But he got a $ 4.7 million signing bonus and a $1.29 million roster bonus for up front money. Then his base salaries were reduced to realistic levels reducing his chances of getting cut.

Madison was originally scheduled to earn $27.7 million the next four years.
''We knew he would get only $13 million of that,'' Burrough said. ``We figured in the last two years he would get cut or traded anyway. So, really, he goes from making $13 million to $18 million over the next four years.''
And while the team benefits from lowering Madison's cap numbers in 2004 and the three years after that, the player benefits in that his future with the Dolphins should be relatively secure as long as he continues to perform at his current level.

Ricky Williams as you know is not really interested in money was a number one draft pick. In 1999 he received a $8.840 million signing bonus with minimum salaries for each of the 8 years of it term. The Dolphins just changed the incentives from impossible to good if he performs well. In 2003 his agent did make some statments that Ricky was under paid and his contract should be addressed. This is true and to Ricky's credit he probably told his agent to keep quiet as we haven't heard from him since.

Ogunleye's money history.

Year Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Cap
2003 $375,000 $0 $250,000 $625,000

2002 $ 300,000 $ 0 $ 4,410 $ 304,410

2001 $ 209,000 $ 0 $ 4,400 $ 217,150

2000 $ 111,000 $ 3,800 $ 0 $ 114,800

Please note these are all minimum salaries and the $250k is the incentives he earned for 15 sacks, the most team sacks and making the pro-bowl.
 
Boomer said:
Have Rosenhaus and Bin Laden been seen in the same room together????? Hmmm, think about it........think about it.....


A Jewish man and an Islamic terrorist.......

I don't think so. :lol:
 
Muck said:
But the fact remains that these guys signed big contracts to begin with. Wale's biggest contract was a $375K deal with small incentives. And on that contract he led the AFC in sacks and made the Pro Bowl. That was his second solid season in a row.

When the time to restructure comes, he'll restructure. But the fact remains that his contract is up. And it's his time to get paid. Chambers is still under contract. And to be fair....as talented as he is....he has not put up a season equal to Wale's 2003 (although Chambers had A LOT more working against him).

To the contrary Muck....

As CK pointed out in another thread. Wale went undrafted as a result of injury. The Dolphins paid him to rehab. Sure he possessed the talent but none of it could be shown. His injury is why he is in the situation he is in. If he wants to harbor some ill will towards any team it should be the University of Indiana. All they did was give him a free education to play football and he didn't complete that.

What we are looking at here is pure and simple greed. The team is excersising their option to pay for his services in a way that has been contractually negotiated. His response to the contract? Find the loophole that allows you to receive credit for a year. There is a duty one has in upholding the "spirit" of a contract. I don't doubt that the NFLPA nor the NFL had any doubt about the terms under the "restricted free agent" portion. Do you think the contract intention for receiving a "credit year" was for this type of action?

If we are looking for fault in this matter. It all resides on the shoulders of Adewale Ogunleye. He was injured. He was undrafted. He signed the original contract. He rehabbed at the Miami Dolphins facilities. He is the player approaching 30.

It's the classic "I'll take my ball and go home" mentality.

Here is a question to ponder... Say he has a career ending injury in August 2004. Is he going to do the right thing and give the signing bonus back?
Hell, he's already been paid two years to do nothing. What's five more? He's asking the Dolphins to do the right thing. All he's asking for is good faith right? Shouldn't they expect the same accord?
 
Good response Zod...The teams take chances on people all the time that don't work out. (How about SD taking a chance on Boston, how about Fletcher for us)....The issue I have with Ogun is the way he is going about this. Negotiating in the media gets these high-priced babies hated by fans. I have much less respect for the man than I have in the past. He needs a dose of reality, but unfortuneatly, he won't get it. He'll get his money, it's just a matter of when and where.
 
baracuda said:
OK there genius. I don't recall seeing Leigh Steinberg's name being torched in shame by anyone and everyone. I know a lot of agents that quietly go about their business and get top money for their clients and don't come across as a complete ignoramous in the media.

Rosenhaus is purely an example of a wanna be athlete who was never good at anything in his life, so he turned his brown nosing attitude and ways into a career sucking up to dumb jocks. He has no talent, no skills, and no abilities beyond acting like a complete ignoramous in public.

There are many ways to go about doing things, and Rosenhaus is the poster child for everything that is wrong with sports agents.

I do believe that you can be a sports agent and have dignity, class and humility without compromising your clients leverage and position with their employer.

Thanks for responding Drew! You continue to amaze at how truly myopic your view of life is. Greedy neanderthal.


He's not good at anything?

The guy has negotiated $900 million worth of contracts in his career. Seems like he is doing something right.
 
ZOD said:
Here is a question to ponder... Say he has a career ending injury in August 2004. Is he going to do the right thing and give the signing bonus back?
Hell, he's already been paid two years to do nothing. What's five more? He's asking the Dolphins to do the right thing. All he's asking for is good faith right? Shouldn't they expect the same accord?

Excellent point but it goes both ways. If Ogun signs the tender and his career ends he only gets the $1.824 million. Why expect the employee to carry all the risk???

The truth is Management still has the leverage this year. If he wants a long term deal he will have to be reasonable. The two contracts that he thinks are the market value are really over inflated because of when they were done, early in FA. If he wants the biggest contract in the league then he will have to play for the tender this year and get the most money in March of 2005.
 
If I am not mistaken, one of the comments made by RS when we drafted Will Poole was that he was represented by Rosenhaus and that his familiarity with the Dolphin FO was viewed as points in his favor. Whatever else WE may think of Rosenhaus, the FO doesn't seem to mind him.
 
Look most fans do not make the type of money these guys will be and do make so it is natural for us to get negative quickly when they are in negotiations. Drews job is to get his client the best possible money. He also has more than one client and needs to keep a working relationship with the FOs of all the teams. The agent with the worst reps right now are the Postons, but Steinberg is not very popular with many FOs either. Drew hasn't crossed the line ( as far as doing something that will hurt him or his client's reps). If Ogun actually holds out, then in my opinion, he will have crossed the line and gone too far. That would break a trust that the FOs have with him right now. Once this is resolved, we will all probably forget all this, especially when Ogun is getting his 15th sack next season (on Brady, I hope)...
 
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