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After further review...

NBP81

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Im rambling the **** out of this post so if you dont have a couple of minutes to read it once, and then another couple of times just to get what it actually means, just move on.

Let me start off by saying there's not one single move this FO made in the last 2 years that was a **** move(questionable at worst) when looked at individually.. These moves when looked at individually were all legit, its when you look at the overall strategy that things start to look... Inadequate for a lack of a better word. I'll just keep this one on the offense because quite frankly, this D has warts but its good enough to win games in the NFL provided you field a top 10 offense, which is what you should always be striving for.

Picking Jackson at #18 is not a problem, picking Eich at #42 is not a problem, picking hunt at #39 is not a problem, picking Kindley at #111 is definitely not a problem. Picking Tua over Herbert at #5 was definitely not a problem. I mean sure hindsight captains will tell you all along Herbert was definitely the guy, but thats a very small amount of people and even then half of them hated Tua more than they liked Herbert.

So whats the problem? If all these moves were correct, how the **** does this offense suck so bad?

We often come across guys who's whole argument centers around "These guys are pros and you're sitting on your couch, I'll trust the pros to do their jobs". This is basically correct, you're not getting resistance from me on that one. Grier is absolutely better at evaluation footaball players than we are, Flores is obviously a better football coach than anyone here(hopefully) and basically everyone on the Fins coaching staff most probably know WTF they're doing.

That being said, having a bunch of competent people doesnt automatically bring success. You absolutely need someone to coordinate all these guys, formulate an overall strategy that makes sense and make sure everyone knows their role and execute it at a high level. This is where the Fins literally suck on offense. There is absolutely nothing that makes sense on the way this offense is built and run. They are actually doing worst than a coinflip.

There's nothing to evaluate on offense right now because the OL is incapable of giving even below average time for plays to develop.

Quick view of the OL: 2nd year, 2nd year, 3rd year(IR), 2nd year, Davis(who got the QB smashed in 1.9 seconds, and who's backup is, you guessed it, a rookie)
Quick view of the OL coach: 1st year(was playing in the NFL just 5 years ago)
Quick view of the QB: 2nd year(IR)

No one, not one player was put in position to succeed. Every single one of these players were put in a group that was just as clueless as they are. I'd bet a huge amount that any single one of these players would've performed a decent amount better if they were put next to a vet, or at the very least coached by someone who knows what the **** they're doing. I bet Jackson would've been alot better if he came into a situation where there were 3-4 vets on the OL, and I bet that statement is true for anyone of the green OL.

I also bet Tua would've looked alot better if he didnt play behind a group of OL that are all lost and the only one to look up to is someone who is also lost. Picks and money is great, but if all your picks go into the same unit or function, its a problem. All these coaches and management guys are probably good at what they do, but someone needs to oversee the overall strategy because right now, everyone seems to do as they please and the final product is alot of **** that dont make sense.

/rant
 

NBP81

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Offensive coaching staff is the biggest problem, but Grier is also a problem. We should have spent money in free agency on the offensive line.
This is why most tanks fail... Teams just think adding young talent in bunches will get them over the hump... Yes, adding young talent on rookie contracts is a good thing, but you dont build whole ****ing units with 1st and 2nd year players, and coach them with a 1st time position coach. The correct strategy here is build the interior with vets and bookend them with young players.

You have a solid foundation inside making the correct calls securing the middle of the pocket and helping out the young pups on the outside. Not only this makes alot of sense football wise, it enables you to pay the cheaper positions while saving up on the rookies playing bookends. Draft the Tackles, pay the guards and centers. And FFS get a good coach.
 

EasyRider

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Im rambling the **** out of this post so if you dont have a couple of minutes to read it once, and then another couple of times just to get what it actually means, just move on.

Let me start off by saying there's not one single move this FO made in the last 2 years that was a **** move(questionable at worst) when looked at individually.. These moves when looked at individually were all legit, its when you look at the overall strategy that things start to look... Inadequate for a lack of a better word. I'll just keep this one on the offense because quite frankly, this D has warts but its good enough to win games in the NFL provided you field a top 10 offense, which is what you should always be striving for.

Picking Jackson at #18 is not a problem, picking Eich at #42 is not a problem, picking hunt at #39 is not a problem, picking Kindley at #111 is definitely not a problem. Picking Tua over Herbert at #5 was definitely not a problem. I mean sure hindsight captains will tell you all along Herbert was definitely the guy, but thats a very small amount of people and even then half of them hated Tua more than they liked Herbert.

So whats the problem? If all these moves were correct, how the **** does this offense suck so bad?

We often come across guys who's whole argument centers around "These guys are pros and you're sitting on your couch, I'll trust the pros to do their jobs". This is basically correct, you're not getting resistance from me on that one. Grier is absolutely better at evaluation footaball players than we are, Flores is obviously a better football coach than anyone here(hopefully) and basically everyone on the Fins coaching staff most probably know WTF they're doing.

That being said, having a bunch of competent people doesnt automatically bring success. You absolutely need someone to coordinate all these guys, formulate an overall strategy that makes sense and make sure everyone knows their role and execute it at a high level. This is where the Fins literally suck on offense. There is absolutely nothing that makes sense on the way this offense is built and run. They are actually doing worst than a coinflip.

There's nothing to evaluate on offense right now because the OL is incapable of giving even below average time for plays to develop.

Quick view of the OL: 2nd year, 2nd year, 3rd year(IR), 2nd year, Davis(who got the QB smashed in 1.9 seconds, and who's backup is, you guessed it, a rookie)
Quick view of the OL coach: 1st year(was playing in the NFL just 5 years ago)
Quick view of the QB: 2nd year(IR)

No one, not one player was put in position to succeed. Every single one of these players were put in a group that was just as clueless as they are. I'd bet a huge amount that any single one of these players would've performed a decent amount better if they were put next to a vet, or at the very least coached by someone who knows what the **** they're doing. I bet Jackson would've been alot better if he came into a situation where there were 3-4 vets on the OL, and I bet that statement is true for anyone of the green OL.

I also bet Tua would've looked alot better if he didnt play behind a group of OL that are all lost and the only one to look up to is someone who is also lost. Picks and money is great, but if all your picks go into the same unit or function, its a problem. All these coaches and management guys are probably good at what they do, but someone needs to oversee the overall strategy because right now, everyone seems to do as they please and the final product is alot of **** that dont make sense.

/rant
You can’t ride this machine with two guys game planning and now a third actually calling the plays. Between them and OLine coaching it’s a recipe for disaster. OLine coach is just as important as any coordinator position
And Flores created that problem. I’ll chalk his role in this as inexperience because otherwise I think he’s a fine coach
 

NBP81

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You can’t ride this machine with two guys game planning and now a third actually calling the plays. Between them and OLine coaching it’s a recipe for disaster. OLine coach is just as important as any coordinator position
I mean the 2 CO system can work... Playcalling and coordinating are 2 very different set of skills and having 1 guy for each jobs would absolutely make sense... But this is obviously not how they're going about it so yeah...
 

Delvin

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Picking Tua over Herbert at #5 was definitely not a problem.
FiHfBt3.gif
 

HarryBagpipe

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Im rambling the **** out of this post so if you dont have a couple of minutes to read it once, and then another couple of times just to get what it actually means, just move on.

Let me start off by saying there's not one single move this FO made in the last 2 years that was a **** move(questionable at worst) when looked at individually.. These moves when looked at individually were all legit, its when you look at the overall strategy that things start to look... Inadequate for a lack of a better word. I'll just keep this one on the offense because quite frankly, this D has warts but its good enough to win games in the NFL provided you field a top 10 offense, which is what you should always be striving for.

Picking Jackson at #18 is not a problem, picking Eich at #42 is not a problem, picking hunt at #39 is not a problem, picking Kindley at #111 is definitely not a problem. Picking Tua over Herbert at #5 was definitely not a problem. I mean sure hindsight captains will tell you all along Herbert was definitely the guy, but thats a very small amount of people and even then half of them hated Tua more than they liked Herbert.

So whats the problem? If all these moves were correct, how the **** does this offense suck so bad?

We often come across guys who's whole argument centers around "These guys are pros and you're sitting on your couch, I'll trust the pros to do their jobs". This is basically correct, you're not getting resistance from me on that one. Grier is absolutely better at evaluation footaball players than we are, Flores is obviously a better football coach than anyone here(hopefully) and basically everyone on the Fins coaching staff most probably know WTF they're doing.

That being said, having a bunch of competent people doesnt automatically bring success. You absolutely need someone to coordinate all these guys, formulate an overall strategy that makes sense and make sure everyone knows their role and execute it at a high level. This is where the Fins literally suck on offense. There is absolutely nothing that makes sense on the way this offense is built and run. They are actually doing worst than a coinflip.

There's nothing to evaluate on offense right now because the OL is incapable of giving even below average time for plays to develop.

Quick view of the OL: 2nd year, 2nd year, 3rd year(IR), 2nd year, Davis(who got the QB smashed in 1.9 seconds, and who's backup is, you guessed it, a rookie)
Quick view of the OL coach: 1st year(was playing in the NFL just 5 years ago)
Quick view of the QB: 2nd year(IR)

No one, not one player was put in position to succeed. Every single one of these players were put in a group that was just as clueless as they are. I'd bet a huge amount that any single one of these players would've performed a decent amount better if they were put next to a vet, or at the very least coached by someone who knows what the **** they're doing. I bet Jackson would've been alot better if he came into a situation where there were 3-4 vets on the OL, and I bet that statement is true for anyone of the green OL.

I also bet Tua would've looked alot better if he didnt play behind a group of OL that are all lost and the only one to look up to is someone who is also lost. Picks and money is great, but if all your picks go into the same unit or function, its a problem. All these coaches and management guys are probably good at what they do, but someone needs to oversee the overall strategy because right now, everyone seems to do as they please and the final product is alot of **** that dont make sense.

/rant
Disagree with that point. Each year we do a mock draft and the poster who has the phins almost always does a better job than Grier. I’m no draftnik and had the phins two years ago and ended up with multiple pro bowlers. If a regular joe can do why can’t the guy running the org. He’s bad at his job.
 

DZimmer000

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I respectfully disagree with your entire post except for the end. Talent IS our problem. Period. Picking Jackson at 18 wasn’t the problem? I’ll say it again… Grier picked a guy with a 2nd or 3rd round grade who was looked at as a project coming out of college. So….The problem is Grier using the 18th overall pick on a project. That’s just stupid. I said it when we drafted him. That’s just the Jackson pick….

You said IF all those moves were correct? Well…They weren’t correct as has become obvious. Jackson is consistently being beaten by the man across from him. Kindley has eaten himself out of a job. He’s also consistently beaten by the man across from him. Eichenberg? Rookie…,But as of right now, he doesn’t look good. To put a bow on it…. The entire offensive line is a disgrace. Not one of them are playing anywhere near an NFL level consistently. Grier has hit on a few guys…. but not many. Definitely not enough to keep his job in my opinion.

Remember Grier’s job is to acquire talent. Let’s go to our Free Agent pick ups. Will Fuller? Hurt again. McKinney? Cut. Kyle Van Noy? Cut and on and on.

So…Your argument that Grier is any better at identifying talent than some of the guys on this board is, in my opinion, wrong. He’s just getting paid for it. I guarantee there are guys on this board that post regularly that would run circles around Grier. Grier has been the problem here for 20 years. The only thing he has proven to be good at is getting promoted and keeping his job.

As for coaching…I’m starting to come around to the fact that Flores isn’t what I hoped he would be. You mention being put into a position to succeed…Well…. At some point you have to beat the man across from you. None of the guys you mention are. But…I’ll agree with you….Our coaching isn’t helping these guys. We should go no huddle….Move the pocket…Run more screens etc.

I’ve become very disillusioned with Flores…..And that’s the part that sucks. I thought we had a good one.

Anyway….That’s my 2 cents.
 

NBP81

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Disagree with that point. Each year we do a mock draft and the poster who has the phins almost always does a better job than Grier. I’m no draftnik and had the phins two years ago and ended up with multiple pro bowlers. If a regular joe can do why can’t the guy running the org. He’s bad at his job.
I get what your saying. My point is pretty much Grier is responsible for this... Even if he is good at picking players, which is questionable at this point, he's not able to build an environment thats conductive to player growth. Basically.
 

BahamaFinFan78

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They were bad moves all by themselves, each one. How bout we do this, what good moves have the Grier/Flores combo made?
 

jc4005

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I'm not as sour on Grier as others, though I'll shed no tears if he's fired. If we're using Austin Jackson to define how bad Chris Grier is, the overwhelming consensus going into that draft was that he was a late first round to early second round talent. Many felt we reached on him at the time, but only because he could have been had just a little bit later. I hate using New England as the measuring stick, but they have the best oline coach in football, and they have consistently grabbed guys off the street and made them look good in their system. Not saying AJ is a pro-bowler if New England drafted him, but i bet he would have turned into a damn good player.

Flores is a defensive coach and has done wonders for the defense. But the offense is literally falling apart in front of our eyes, and it's not due to lack of talent. It's all about system and coaching. We have neither.
 

BahamaFinFan78

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I'm not as sour on Grier as others, though I'll shed no tears if he's fired. If we're using Austin Jackson to define how bad Chris Grier is, the overwhelming consensus going into that draft was that he was a late first round to early second round talent. Many felt we reached on him at the time, but only because he could have been had just a little bit later. I hate using New England as the measuring stick, but they have the best oline coach in football, and they have consistently grabbed guys off the street and made them look good in their system. Not saying AJ is a pro-bowler if New England drafted him, but i bet he would have turned into a damn good player.

Flores is a defensive coach and has done wonders for the defense. But the offense is literally falling apart in front of our eyes, and it's not due to lack of talent. It's all about system and coaching. We have neither.
I know no one that thought we should have taken Jackson at 18 or mocked him that high. It hurts more to see who else we could have had
 
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