Andrew Mcdonald backs Turner and the Dolphins

[OnDaChainWax]

I'm sure he had the highest opinion when Pouncey had him in a headlock and Jerry was grabbed his a$$ imitating a sexual act.

Very true but hear me out.

I stay true to the fact that these men deserve to be suspended. My rants on another thread are clear.

And I stay true to my belief that this is why the meatheads do not deserve to be crucified. Locker rooms are filled with meatheads and Mcdonald could cope with it. Its boys being boys. To an extreme? Sure. But whats your definition of extreme? If Mcdonald was laughing along, "Aw, this aint right yall (playful tone)" and partaking in its all in good humor, one cannot define that as extreme because all involved know, feel, recognize its the playful nature of meatheads.

Now define extreme in relation to how one should conduct themselves in the work place. Defining the matter under suitable work place conditions finds the horseplay as extreme thus its susceptible to discipline.

The kind of discipline? Whom are we discipling and who is watching/listening? Do 3 players on their way to HOF careers get crushed in behind closed doors? Never. Do our 3 meatheads get crushed behind closed doors? With a coach like Philbin, maybe. But i like to think they would keep this under the table and just fine the hell out of these guys with a severe warning for future reference. In the lime-light of the national media? Of course crushed. The world is watching.

There are so many grey areas in this fiasco. The only black and white: the idiots got caught.

Furthermore, if Martin wouldve been able to cope as apparently Mcdonald can, this wouldve never happened. And for that reason-an entire locker room backing Icognito- even though I feel greatly for Martin due to his illness, Martin is also very much to blame. If Martin had Mcdonald's resolve and understanding of meathead playfulness, or at the very least the fortitude to take the beef to his head coach and not the f@cking national podium, we wouldnt be in this mess.

 

[Bob512]

It's interesting that there hasn't been a statement from Pouncey or Jerry yet. I'll be interested to hear what they have to say about the report and their conduct.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Thanks Ted Wells for trying to out a straight man who had the backbone to stand up for himself - while giving the jelly-spined pampered son of your Harvard Law School fellow alumni (do any of the years overlap by chance?) essentially a free ride. I don't doubt some of the report's veracity however, I'll keep saying that it's not the whole story (not that it exonerates anyone who factually deserves condemnation). OTOH, no matter the findings, if they were concluded by a consensus from a bi-racial committee of former players, management, media, union members and arbitrators I'd feel better we truly got all the facts no matter where the proverbial "chips" may have fallen.

Excessive speculation. Excessive although how can I judge you for your evident passion on the matter when I am riding the boat with you? Cant.

The rest seems very level-headed. I consider anyone reasonable who can recognize there are many shades in this matter.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

So Ted wells didn't care what McDonald thought about the treatment? Isn't that kind of important to his report? In order for harassment to be harrassment the victim has to have a problem with it

In the end, does it matter? No. Not even close.

Everyone is involving feelings for the one thing the investigation was suppose to uncover and did. Its the only undebatable fact: this behavior is unjustifiable in the work place. Thats not debatable.

If you grab a colleagues a$$ in your office and a serious Human Resource associate sees you, do you think it matters to the associate the a$$ you were grabbing didnt mind it? Hell, say its your wife, still suitable for the work place? NO- that is not debatable.


You know what is debatable: whos the associate that caught you? A close friend? A stranger who can identify harmless playfulness when he sees it and can turn the other way? Theres your shade of grey.

Guess what ladies and gentlemen: the world is the serious Human Resource associate.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

On a side note, is anyone else amazed that Turner is still with the team? It's been a day since the report dropped. I thought he would be gone by the morning...

The only reason, IMO, I can muster to fire the man is the atrocious play of the offensive line.

The joking with his oline squad- boys being boys mentality. :edit: and not extreme .

But what other option is there if all of the eyes focused on us are calling for his head?

 

[AL R]

That's the issue - people are making calls that are inappropriate for players with mental health problems. Think about it, Ireland and his group could identify talent but Martin, Incognito, Brandon Marshall and Davone Best all had mental health related issues. Marshall has been open about his borderline personality disorder (which I understand is extremely difficult to deal with). Bess has effectively imploded over the past year and his career is in tatters. Incognito was a known alpha dog sociopath long before he came to Miami.
Whatever we were doing to assess the mental health of players wasn't very good because we got a disproportionate share of the major problems.
While Ireland talked a good game about recruiting good character players, he should also have looked at their mental health. I can see teams appointing psychologists to assess the mental health of all players. They might give them a fancy title, but their role will be to assess all players and coaches.
Some will probably say that this is crazy, just play ball, but the really good Head Coaches are probably already skilled in this capacity of evaluation.

How many players do you think have issues that play in the NFL Spitex? I think a lot and we just don't hear as much about it, at least not yet. Drug or alcohol problems, wife beating, anger problems and the like. (Much like outside the NFL but maybe amplified by the money, fame etc of the NFL).

 

[OnDaChainWax]

This is actually a pretty big development. One of the alleged victims of the report has come out and denied there being an issue. Also sounds like Mr. Wells had his story already decided before even talking to Andrew McDonald, that is definitely a head scratcher. If Mr. Wells embellished the results in the matter involving McDonald, makes you wonder if there are any other inaccuracies or embellishments in the report.

Argumentative. Immaterial. Take your pick.

Focus on the issue at hand: conduct in the work place.

Im going to pound this out like a troller until you guys get it.

 

[GreenMts]

I think the Wells report will attempt to establish a typical workplace code of conduct for the NFL. In that case, it doesn't matter if McDonald is offended or not. If what allegedly happened to him could be considered harassment by a reasonable person, that matters. When an employee observes misconduct that makes him or her uncomfortable, they can claim hostile workplace. So Jmart, or anyone else, could go to the organization with a claim regarding the McDonald incident.

Jmart should not have blown up and left. He should have made the claim of hostile workplace / harassment. Either it would have ended the circus or he would have had a much stronger case to take all the way to the bank. He's really kind of dumb for a Stanford grad and the son of lawyers.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

The issues are all with the O-line. The treatment of Martin, the racist slurs on the Asian assistant trainer, the homophobic act/slurs on McDonald which he personally participated in. Turner also faces possible suspension for lying to Ted Wells re the Judas excuse (anti-snitching) - he even lectured the team on the subject. He selected Incognito to be his O-line team leader. He encouraged Incognito to toughen Martin up with some tough love (cough bullying) child welcome to candy shop, sensitive 2nd round draft pick meet your sociopath thug master/mentor/buddy. His O-line players also appear to have drug related issues. The strip club O-line "team meetings" to prepare for big games. Not to mention his other little problem - the actual bad play of the O-line that led to failure to protect the QB.
I'd say that there aren't more than 50 good reasons to fire Jim Turner, now that his old Texas A & M buddy and boss, Mike Sherman was hoisted on his own petard.
The failure in firing Turner has the stench of negotiated settlement and Dawn Aponte meeting with his attorney. Go Dawn!!

On the highlighted: the Wells report states they found no such evidence on that issue.

The rest, you may be right. There are many reasons from a Human Resource perspective that has sealed his fate.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

It matters for a few reasons..no one perceives the bullying as intently and intensely as the supposed victim.

Immaterial. Focus on the issue: conduct in the work place.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

No, it really doesn't. Does the report say that Player A was deeply offended by what happened? Unless I'm mistaken, it does not. It merely describes what happens. And what happened, regardless of how McDonald felt about it, is unacceptable behavior in the workplace. This is not a criminal case where the battered wife can refuse to press charges so the police are powerless to do anything. Workplace standards do not exist only within the perception of the behavior by the "victim", and for good reason.

On the highlighted. Vaark's accusations (as i understand them as he is deep perhaps fathoms more than i) and its evident that its shared by many, is that the Wells report heavily incorporates feelings and opinions detrimental to us but why wasnt Mcdonald's feelings on the issue in the report? Unless Mcdonald said something to Wells and another thing to the media, I have to agree with Vaark on this matter. The general tone of Well's opinions are wide and negative. He sprinkles a few Turners actions towards Martin upon hearing of Martin's situation is very commendable affirmations but the widespread tone is negative. I reason such would be the influence of a human being's common decency taking hold but that is immaterial as well.

Bingo on the rest. Thank you.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

I'm reminded of a line of cars breaking the speed limit. Now the posted speed limit is 70, and just because the guy in front of you is going 80 and the guy in front of him is going 80, doesn't mean it's ok for them or you to go 80. Now all of you might get away with it, but if a cop pulls you over, you're getting a ticket. the law was posted. you ignored it. just because group think made you think it was ok, it still isn't.

Theres some meat and potatoes for you. They were caught by the law and the officer is the eyes of a nation.

Intelligent analogy. Much obliged.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

I think everybody needs to listen to Doug Gottlieb on the topic. For those that don't know Gottlieb was a college basketball player that has become a pretty good college basketball analyst. But he also has made a lot of mistakes in life. He basically said that after reading the Wells report, he heard a lot of the same things, if not worst, from teammates and occasionally coaches. He said he personally just used it as motivation to get better. But he also pointed out what some see as harmless joking others don't.

He also compares Jonathan Martin to Royce White. White was a very talented player from Iowa State in basketball who was drafted in the first round by the Houston Rockets 2 years ago. He suffered from sever OCD (which is not always as simple as needing everything to be in a proper place) and also anxiety disorder that included a crippling fear of flying. White's career to this point never got going because of his mental issues, and Gottlieb said in a lot of ways the Martin situation proves that the NFL and people in the locker room aren't quite ready to deal with people with mental issues.

Youre the first person other than myself to mention the insight of Martin's severe depression. As a matter of fact, I believe the real bully, the one that mattered most, was the severe depression. That was the monster far more terrorizing than Incognito.

Barkley has a similar view of the locker room. Im paraphrasing but Barkley says of the locker room, its racist, sexist, and homophobic and I miss it.

Thanks for the info.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Ted graduated from Harvard Law in 1976. Gus got his JD from Duquesne but attended Harvard from '73 to '78. Jane was at Harvard from '75 to '82.

Fun fact... Ted represented Scooter Libby who snitched on Valerie Plame (a CIA Agent).



Agreed. If it looks a snake & acts like a snake then it probably is a snake.

p.s. ^&*%^&^$$&*!@%(#$ Ivy League trained lawyers

Reach of a conspiracy theory but very interesting indeed. Thanks for the research. I honestly love a good conspiracy theory. Who doesnt?

 

[dlockz]

Reach of a conspiracy theory but very interesting indeed. Thanks for the research. I honestly love a good conspiracy theory. Who doesnt?

Biggest problem with his so called conspiracy is that The NFL chose Wells not the parents.