ckparrothead
Premium Member
I think people were upset with Moore being selected over Washington, Boldin, or Calico because they thought that we could have just up and gotten ourselves another Chris Chambers or something, as if its that easy.
But first off, Chambers falling to us in round 2 went down as one of the biggest steals in that draft and things like that just don't happen every year. There's a reason both Calico and Washington fell as far as they did, also a reason why Boldin did as well. Boldin is slow (yes, slow, and not much athleticism just look at the comparison between Tolver and Boldin), Calico is blind, and Washington has a fused neck and a bad attitude that might not give him the patience to work into a lineup and contribute his rookie season without fireworks happening. Not to mention both Calico and Washington were ultra-raw and probably not ready make contributions as rookies.
Yes, I realize that due to Wisconsin's tendancy to run the ball, Chambers was considered raw in his route running and stuff as well. But that brings me to my 2nd point. Opportunity. Who did we have when we drafted Chambers? Gadsden, McKnight, and I'm not even sure we had Dedric Ward yet....plus Chan Gailey who likes to make use of 3 and 4 WR sets often, spreading time between the top 3 receivers nearly equally...with like no passes whatsoever to the FB or TE. We had no true #1 type of receiver, we had two #2's and a midget who could move the chains out of the slot on occasion. In comes Chambers. NO PRESSURE. The guy was raw on the route running, but it didn't matter, because all he was asked to do was run straight forward, run by a zone 3rd CB so fast that it would suck the decal off his helmet, then go up and get the damn ball. Even that is asking a great deal, but with Chambers' incredible athleticism (athleticism that neither Boldin, Calico, or even Washington possess as much as Chambers did) and his hands, he was up to the challenge. He was asked to become a starter, true #1, vary his routes and put his stamp on the position, and he struggled in his second year and in retrospect its obvious why.
Washington, Boldin, or Calico would be stepping into an offense that is currently being re-vamped to get the ball into the hands of Chris Chambers and Randy McMichael. They would be stepping into an offense that has a true #1, and two true #2 type receivers. And the offensive coordinator, does not get max production out of the top 3 receivers, let alone the top FOUR receivers. In Norv's perfect world, he's getting max production out of the top TWO receivers, plus the tight end, plus the RB/FB combo. So none of the WRs we could have drafted in round 2 would have been walking into anything NEAR the situation Chambers walked into when he was given the tools to succeed.
To make a draftee into a good player you need coaching, development, and patience. To make a draftee into a good ROOKIE, you need good coaching, development, patience, and OPPORTUNITY. Thats something we had with Chambers when we drafted a WR, and something we would not have with Calico, Boldin, or Washington. The only way to get the player that opportunity would be to cut James McKnight. And in the end, I guess the coaches just felt that our need at linebacker considering Greenwood's stunted growth and Rodgers' imminent departure, was just too much to cut a proven guy like James McKnight and go with an unproven head (and neck) case like Washington, a blind man like Calico, or slow-foot Boldin.
Quick points.
1. Yes, 20/60 vision is pretty bad. Its not even good enough to drive. I currently possess 20/60 vision in my left eye (which is a far cry from when I was born legally blind in that eye but nonetheless) and I can tell you that if both of my eyes were like this I can't even begin to imagine making a career catching a football. With the vision being bad in both eyes there is a CHANCE (not a good or bad chance) that he never developed stereo vision (one of the most reliable tools your brain uses for depth perception within 10 to 15 feet). I should know, because I never developed stereo vision either and I've had long detailed discussions with eye specialists about it. Once you're past age like 5 years old or something, you'll never develop it if you haven't already and if he hasn't developed it, then contacts aren't going to help him get to that next level all that much.
2. Why not Mike Doss? Sam Knight. Thats why. We could grab Doss in round 2, and either ignore linebacker or draft a slower one in round 3 that won't be able to play well in our system, or we could continue ahead with the plan and get some OLmen and ignore our LB plight altogether, or we could just sign Sam Knight. In the end, there is a good safety sitting there ready to sign if we didn't draft one (especially considering Pitt drafting Polamalu) but there is no good linebacker sitting there ready to sign to backup all three positions and possibly push Greenwood for the start and eventually beat him, one that can run extremely well and therefore play in our system.
3. That comparison between Tolver and Boldin was fantastic, thanks dude. And it just goes to show ya if these two end up with similar careers, something that I've been saying for a little while now. These draft evaluations, the evals themselves, can be quite good at times. But where they are absolutely sh!tty sometimes, is when they try comparing and ranking these guys against each other. If you replace on Tolver's report "San Diego State" with like "Hawaii" or "Marshall" or "Perdue" then you'd think Tolver was gonna be drafted as high as Boldin even though those other schools are still pass-oriented schools like SD St. I'm curious though what did Tolver do in those games against UCLA, Colorado, Colorado St, and Arizona St?
But first off, Chambers falling to us in round 2 went down as one of the biggest steals in that draft and things like that just don't happen every year. There's a reason both Calico and Washington fell as far as they did, also a reason why Boldin did as well. Boldin is slow (yes, slow, and not much athleticism just look at the comparison between Tolver and Boldin), Calico is blind, and Washington has a fused neck and a bad attitude that might not give him the patience to work into a lineup and contribute his rookie season without fireworks happening. Not to mention both Calico and Washington were ultra-raw and probably not ready make contributions as rookies.
Yes, I realize that due to Wisconsin's tendancy to run the ball, Chambers was considered raw in his route running and stuff as well. But that brings me to my 2nd point. Opportunity. Who did we have when we drafted Chambers? Gadsden, McKnight, and I'm not even sure we had Dedric Ward yet....plus Chan Gailey who likes to make use of 3 and 4 WR sets often, spreading time between the top 3 receivers nearly equally...with like no passes whatsoever to the FB or TE. We had no true #1 type of receiver, we had two #2's and a midget who could move the chains out of the slot on occasion. In comes Chambers. NO PRESSURE. The guy was raw on the route running, but it didn't matter, because all he was asked to do was run straight forward, run by a zone 3rd CB so fast that it would suck the decal off his helmet, then go up and get the damn ball. Even that is asking a great deal, but with Chambers' incredible athleticism (athleticism that neither Boldin, Calico, or even Washington possess as much as Chambers did) and his hands, he was up to the challenge. He was asked to become a starter, true #1, vary his routes and put his stamp on the position, and he struggled in his second year and in retrospect its obvious why.
Washington, Boldin, or Calico would be stepping into an offense that is currently being re-vamped to get the ball into the hands of Chris Chambers and Randy McMichael. They would be stepping into an offense that has a true #1, and two true #2 type receivers. And the offensive coordinator, does not get max production out of the top 3 receivers, let alone the top FOUR receivers. In Norv's perfect world, he's getting max production out of the top TWO receivers, plus the tight end, plus the RB/FB combo. So none of the WRs we could have drafted in round 2 would have been walking into anything NEAR the situation Chambers walked into when he was given the tools to succeed.
To make a draftee into a good player you need coaching, development, and patience. To make a draftee into a good ROOKIE, you need good coaching, development, patience, and OPPORTUNITY. Thats something we had with Chambers when we drafted a WR, and something we would not have with Calico, Boldin, or Washington. The only way to get the player that opportunity would be to cut James McKnight. And in the end, I guess the coaches just felt that our need at linebacker considering Greenwood's stunted growth and Rodgers' imminent departure, was just too much to cut a proven guy like James McKnight and go with an unproven head (and neck) case like Washington, a blind man like Calico, or slow-foot Boldin.
Quick points.
1. Yes, 20/60 vision is pretty bad. Its not even good enough to drive. I currently possess 20/60 vision in my left eye (which is a far cry from when I was born legally blind in that eye but nonetheless) and I can tell you that if both of my eyes were like this I can't even begin to imagine making a career catching a football. With the vision being bad in both eyes there is a CHANCE (not a good or bad chance) that he never developed stereo vision (one of the most reliable tools your brain uses for depth perception within 10 to 15 feet). I should know, because I never developed stereo vision either and I've had long detailed discussions with eye specialists about it. Once you're past age like 5 years old or something, you'll never develop it if you haven't already and if he hasn't developed it, then contacts aren't going to help him get to that next level all that much.
2. Why not Mike Doss? Sam Knight. Thats why. We could grab Doss in round 2, and either ignore linebacker or draft a slower one in round 3 that won't be able to play well in our system, or we could continue ahead with the plan and get some OLmen and ignore our LB plight altogether, or we could just sign Sam Knight. In the end, there is a good safety sitting there ready to sign if we didn't draft one (especially considering Pitt drafting Polamalu) but there is no good linebacker sitting there ready to sign to backup all three positions and possibly push Greenwood for the start and eventually beat him, one that can run extremely well and therefore play in our system.
3. That comparison between Tolver and Boldin was fantastic, thanks dude. And it just goes to show ya if these two end up with similar careers, something that I've been saying for a little while now. These draft evaluations, the evals themselves, can be quite good at times. But where they are absolutely sh!tty sometimes, is when they try comparing and ranking these guys against each other. If you replace on Tolver's report "San Diego State" with like "Hawaii" or "Marshall" or "Perdue" then you'd think Tolver was gonna be drafted as high as Boldin even though those other schools are still pass-oriented schools like SD St. I'm curious though what did Tolver do in those games against UCLA, Colorado, Colorado St, and Arizona St?
