any experts around the board on major knee injuries? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

any experts around the board on major knee injuries?

People keep saying CPEP was "rushed back". Who rushed him back? I'll tell ya "who"...Daunte!!!! Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt; he wanted to play so bad and redeem himself so bad that he ignored his rehab schedule and just practiced as if nothing was wrong. Perhaps he was so frustrated he was in denial and this led to his continuing knee problems. Is it admirable that the guy wanted it so bad he stopped rehabbing? Is it admirable that he got into a shouting match with Saban when Saban finally sat him down because he refused to accept his problems? Saban coddled his high priced vets so I'm not buyin' the "rushed back" theory. Daunte's a pain in the butt. Hopefully he can turn it around and or be more realistic or else he'll be gone!

I agree with you on Daunte ignored his rehab schedule but it is up to the coach, trainer and/or medical staff to make sure he keep to that schedule because ALL competitive athletes have a tendacy to rush their rehab.

I think everyone fell for the possibility of Culpepper coming back last year after they saw him run during the June mini camp.
 
Would just like some incite, can Daunte Culpepper actually come back from this injury? I know Willis McGahee and Carson Palmer both came back from these types of injuries but i just don't see culpepper's knee ever getting back to strength.

I'm no expert, but I'll give it a shot. I've had five knee surgeries, including two ACL reconstructions (one on each knee). Both times I had a section of my patellar tendon harvested and then used to create a new ACL ligament. The other three surgeries were relatively minor scopes. To this day, 17 or 18 years since the first operation, I can still scratch my knee in some places and either feel a weird, somewhat numb sensation and actually something on the opposite side of the knee. I've had both external and internal nerve damage to both knees.

Which brings me to Culpepper. Everyone seems to focus on his leg strength and pain. Strength is obviously important, as measured by the Cybex tests etc., and pain is a demoralizing killer. But my guess is that his limping and utter lack of quickness and mobility, although in part caused by pain, is also a result of nerve damage. There is some nerve damage caused by the surgical cutting, but the most important nerve damage is caused by the injury itself, with bundles of nerves inside the ligamnets themselves severed as three of his ligaments were shredded. These nerves that were damaged
sent impulses to the brain that allowed for normal movement, balance, and communication betwee the brain and the body parts in question. They're vital for running, balance, quickness- optimum functioning that people take for granted until such an injury. These nerves simply have to heal- that's why knee strength and Cybex tests simply don't paint the whole picture. When you hear that Culpepper's knee tested out at 95% strength, that doesn't
necessarily mean that he's good to go. Two examples of what nerve damage can do to a knee are the injuries suffered by Robert Edwards and Dwight Stephenson.

The process by which body parts communicate and coordinate with the brain (using these nerves in question) is called proprioception. I had never heard the term until a guy on this site (Bonedoc?) mentioned it. I've experienced the nerve healing process and regaining of proprioception myself. When I
was at the Bills game last year waching Culpepper flop around that's what I thought about: you can play through pain, but you can't really overcome nerve damage just through force of will. But over time (give it a full 2 years)
it usually gets a lot better. The nerves heal, regenerate, and you start feeling normal again.

So what's critical for Culpepper are the obvious regaining of leg strength and range of motion (both probably accomplished by now) and a complete or near complete return of proprioception relative to his brain and knee. Some guys like Carson Palmer and Willis McGahee come back quickly, other guys like Dwight Stephenson never make it back. It's tought to predict who is going to bounce back quickly from these kind of injuries and who isn't. But after a second offseason Culpepper should, at least from a physical standpoint, be ready to go.

Here are a few links:

From Emory University:

"The body's movement in space is monitored by nerves, located in ligaments, and tendons and muscles, which send signals to the brain to coordinate activity and protect against injury. These damaged nerves must be retrained in Proprioception exercises so the muscles will move the joint properly again."

http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/departments/sports/sub_menu/ACL.html

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro02/web2/slee.html
 
...I can still scratch my knee in some places and either feel a weird, somewhat numb sensation and actually something on the opposite side of the knee.
I hear that! It's been several years since my first surgery (which, in my case, was an "open" surgery, not the scope) and the nerves on the lateral side of my right knee still leave me with numbness/tingling. Unfortunately for me (and maybe Culpepper...who knows?) enough years have passed that this condition is as good as it will get.

A couple of other things to remember about rehab...first, it basically starts either the day of or the day after surgery when the nurse and/or PT comes into your hospital room and tells you that you will get out of bed now, put both feet on the floor, and stand up (OK, if you get a "nice" nurse and/or PT, they may let you lean back against the bed the first few times you do this, but after that, 'that's what crutches are for.') Second, rehab is a kind of "balancing act," between regaining strength and regaining mobility/flexibility in the joint. As an example of what happens when that "balancing act" doesn't occur...there was a football player that was in rehab the same time I was and he decided to work on the strength of his leg on his own (and unknown to the trainer). Unfortunately, his strength got so far ahead of the mobility/stability of the joint, his quad muscles actually pulled the knee joint apart (ouch!), and he had to return to surgery. This is all the long way of saying that rehabbing a surgical knee isn't as simple as showing up at the training facility every day...someone who knows what they're doing must be running the show.
 
"......These damaged nerves must be retrained in Proprioception exercises so the muscles will move the joint properly again."

So if we give CPep proprioception exercises in the off season do you think it will speed up his brain to arm communication so he can get rid of the football before being pounded onto his butt?:lol:

I don't care how bad his knees were, he's a professional and should have known when and where to get rid of the football to avoid a lot of the sacks and errant throws.
 
So if we give CPep proprioception exercises in the off season do you think it will speed up his brain to arm communication so he can get rid of the football before being pounded onto his butt?:lol:

I don't care how bad his knees were, he's a professional and should have known when and where to get rid of the football to avoid a lot of the sacks and errant throws.

I think that Culpepper has a lot to prove, too. After a second offseason for him to fully heal, nerves and all, it's going to be put up or shut up time. I would like to hear more about exactly why we're pursuing Green and maybe Carr. Something just doesn't sound right here, and I wonder how this is going to play out. My best guess is that he's on thin ice.
 
U are comaring a broken leg to tearing your MCL, PCL and ACL . . . boy the Daunte haters are out there man.
no im saying every one is different how thier body heals, dude i am a Daunte supporter and i dont even kno how u connect wut i said with hateing Daunte. All im saying is he could heal faster or slower than other ppl so asking fan who is recovering from the type of injury daunte has is not a good source of information!!!
 
Culpepper's injury was much worse than McGahee's and Palmer's. Culpepper tore his ACL, MCL and PCL which usually has a recovery timetable of 18 to 24 months.

Daunte defied the odds by coming back less than one year. Even then he didn't have full strength or full range of motion in his knee and that should have prevented him not playing when he did.


I think McGahee had the worst knee injury i've ever seen.. That guys a freak to come back from that
 
I had the same injury as C-Pep it is easily a two year rehab to get back to 100 percent. It is not that the knee is unable to do the same things it is the recovery time it takes the knee to feel better after a game. It takes alot of time for the pain to go away after you push it.


Your never 100% after that injury. Especially if your putting 250+ lbs on the knee at full speed.
He tore more than one ligament and has significantly less supporting conective tissue.
 
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