Any one notice Vernon? | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Any one notice Vernon?

ckparrothead said:
Well let me explain it more clearly since you seem to be confused by what I was saying, particularly about Koa Misi.

The Dolphins did not draft Dion Jordan at number three overall for him to be a 500 snap player. They drafted him number three overall to be Cameron Wake, who plays nearly every down. He can't do that if Olivier Vernon stays in his current role. He MIGHT have been able to do it if the Dolphins did not sign Koa Misi to a contract extension, because Jordan might have slid into Misi's role as a linebacker on base downs. Now that Misi is on a somewhat expensive 4 year contract extenstion, that's no longer a possibility.

If everything goes according to plan with number three overall pick Dion Jordan, especially given Cameron Wake's accounting for about $9 million a year from 2014 to 2016, then Olivier Vernon's FUTURE is to be a player that rotates in off the bench. A Derrick Shelby. Whether you call that a bright future or not, I don't know. It's subjective. That's up to you. But it is what it is.
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Ok that makes sense but only if dj proves he can be an every down de down the line...I don't see Jordan taking his job anytime soon though and I don't get why they couldn't both be in the field with wake also in some packages given Jordan's unique skillset and tools...

Vernon is a more dynamic 2 deep option down the road than Shelby though and it won't surprise me if he gives us 8 sacks this year...we have the guys now to take pressure off of wake

900 snaps for dion Jordan is a long ways off still
 
hooshoops said:
Ok that makes sense but only if dj proves he can be an every down de down the line...I don't see Jordan taking his job anytime soon though and I don't get why they couldn't both be in the field with wake also in some packages given Jordan's unique skillset and tools...

Vernon is a more dynamic 2 deep option down the road than Shelby though and it won't surprise me if he gives us 8 sacks this year...we have the guys now to take pressure off of wake

900 snaps for dion Jordan is a long ways off still
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If Dion Jordan does not end up that type of player, he will have been a MASSIVE disappointment at #3 overall. I don't think the front office is building in that possibility. I think they know Olivier Vernon is not long for a significant role on the team.
 
ckparrothead said:
Olivier Vernon is not a very good pass rusher. This should not really be news but for whatever reason a lot of people take a blind eye to what he's actually showing on the football field.

He's good for what he is. He's pretty athletic, and since his days at Miami he's had very powerful hands that allow him to play like a player bigger than his frame would suggest. This is why he's good for base downs, until Dion Jordan is ready to assume the 3-down role for which he was drafted.

But let's not pretend Olivier has a bright future in Miami. That fate was sealed the moment they drafted Dion Jordan all the way up at #3 overall. And if there was any ambiguity, they took that ambiguity away a few days ago by giving Koa Misi a four year contract extension.
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Cameron Wake is 31. Not saying he has slowed down at all (in fact he's sped up) but eventually he will. Myself, I like what Vernon brings to the table. He's a decent pass rusher, a good run stopper, and can line up with his hand in the dirt or standing up. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Jordan and Vernon as our defensive ends of the future once Wake is gone. Edit: that is if they both continue to develop well.
 
right now i think the plan is to try and have jordan active for 16 games without a setback...forget any 900 snap count stuff...
 
antillj94 said:
Cameron Wake is 31. Not saying he has slowed down at all (in fact he's sped up) but eventually he will. Myself, I like what Vernon brings to the table. He's a decent pass rusher, a good run stopper, and can line up with his hand in the dirt or standing up. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Jordan and Vernon as our defensive ends of the future once Wake is gone. Edit: that is if they both continue to develop well.
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I suppose logistically speaking there's the possibility that they view Olivier Vernon as Cameron Wake's eventual successor in 2017 and beyond. But considering the guy has yet to consistently put down tape of him pass rushing successfully, I tend to doubt they're taking that long term a view on him.
 
I have yet to see anything from Vernon to make me think he will put up double digit sacks. He's a solid back up that can play multiple positions.
 
ckparrothead said:
I actually agree with that.

If you knew absolutely nothing about Olivier Vernon and you watched that game, it would be unwise for you to read too far into it because the bottom line is he faced one of the best in the league.

Thing is, I'm still waiting for Olivier Vernon to show us on the football field that he's got pass rush potential. I'm not talking about reports of the coaches being high on him, or how many snaps those coaches give him. I'm talking about go out onto the field and rush the passer well. I would love to see that happen. It hasn't happened yet.

But either way he has a STEEP UPHILL CLIMB in front of him because his own team drafted his replacement at #3 overall. They may try and get cute and position things differently, "Oh we're going to use all of them, it's going to be awesome!" but logistically it just doesn't work out that way.
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On many good defenses, it very well does. I don't know why everyone is so confused at how it is possible to mix in multiple guys between a couple positions, we've done that for years on the defensive line with players like Starks and Odrick and now we will be mixing in another guy on the exterior.

What makes great defenses great week in and week out is that they have multiple people who can rotate in, create mismatches, and keep each other fresh. There's some serious negative thinking in just assuming that potentially talented players will be written off or have already.
 
ckparrothead said:
These are just untrue statements. Well, to the extent that subjective statements can be untrue.
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from what i saw of Oliver Vernon in preseason against STARTING LTs while he was in there O.V. WAS A BEAST i watched all the preseason games , just to name one (1) look what he did against the Texans LT he beat him a couple times in the first half of that preseason game and he was meeting Cameron Wake at the QB , JUST ABOUT EVERYTIME , i mean its hard to tell about a guy thats in his 2nd year but imo i like Vernon , and think he is a better rusher than Misi is O.V. is very fast and has got power , and we all will get to see it as the season gose on .
 
ckparrothead said:
I would love to see Olivier Vernon used on the inside in some sort of "Nascar" package like that.

But that still would make him a bench player.
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Kind of like that sack he had against the Jets in NY last year, where he lined up in the middle and blitzed up the gut of the offensive line like he was shot out of a cannon ?

PS: Did you also not think Cam Wake had a "bright future" in the NFL when he was Vernon's age ?? Vernon is only 22, that's 9 years younger than Wake. What was Wake doing when he was 22 ?? He was getting cut by his team, that's what. Please explain the "bright future" thing again..
 
ckparrothead said:
Olivier Vernon is not a very good pass rusher. This should not really be news but for whatever reason a lot of people take a blind eye to what he's actually showing on the football field.

He's good for what he is. He's pretty athletic, and since his days at Miami he's had very powerful hands that allow him to play like a player bigger than his frame would suggest. This is why he's good for base downs, until Dion Jordan is ready to assume the 3-down role for which he was drafted.

But let's not pretend Olivier has a bright future in Miami. That fate was sealed the moment they drafted Dion Jordan all the way up at #3 overall. And if there was any ambiguity, they took that ambiguity away a few days ago by giving Koa Misi a four year contract extension.
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Yeah, it isn't like there are 2 defensive end positions, and Wake isn't over 30, and most good teams don't have at least one guy on the bench to rotate in at defensive end.
 
ckparrothead said:
These are just untrue statements. Well, to the extent that subjective statements can be untrue.
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How about this: Your subjective observations bear little resemblance to what actually, objectively transpired? lol
 
Next Sunday he'll be going up against Castonzo. Last I checked no one was mistaking him for Joe Thomas. Let's see what he can do there.
 
David Bowens 2.0. 6-8 sacks a year, solid special teamer, and good rotation guy on the DL. Don't have a problem with that at all.
 
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