Are we overestimating our O-line? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Are we overestimating our O-line?

DW treated his old guys on the line like his best friends....just like he does with everyone else on the team.....and he didn't want to take a chance of having some "rookie type" mistakes on the line. So he just left in the old guys, cause they wouldn't make the mental mistakes, but they couldn't do much physically. Now the young guys with the physical ability are going in TC as starters, with the full work with the first team. So my point is....this line has more physical tools, it will just be the mental part that needs to come together.....more so with McKinney as the center.
 
NLude33 said:
DW treated his old guys on the line like his best friends....just like he does with everyone else on the team.....and he didn't want to take a chance of having some "rookie type" mistakes on the line. So he just left in the old guys, cause they wouldn't make the mental mistakes, but they couldn't do much physically. Now the young guys with the physical ability are going in TC as starters, with the full work with the first team. So my point is....this line has more physical tools, it will just be the mental part that needs to come together.....more so with McKinney as the center.
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That was one of my points, I'm not sure the physical tools are there or as we use the word, "talent", so there's a possibility that both the physical tools and mental tools are missing. Again remember we're on our 3rd signee from FA for our RT, no FA RG and 1st year starter if German, 1st year starter center, best Ol thus far in Mini camp at LG, and a 2nd year LT. Take a real look at that. 2, maybe 3 of the guys have to learn this offense. Rookies and young FA's backing them up. This IS the weakest link at this time on the team. They may shock the world and play lights out, which we all hope they do, but we much also sit back and realize what we really have too. A young in experience line that will go though growing pains. That's why Wanny is playing the D up. They will have to be the best D in Franchise history to make up for our O this Year.
 
MDFINFAN said:
That was one of my points, I'm not sure the physical tools are there or as we use the word, "talent", so there's a possibility that both the physical tools and mental tools are missing. Again remember we're on our 3rd signee from FA for our RT, no FA RG and 1st year starter if German, 1st year starter center, best Ol thus far in Mini camp at LG, and a 2nd year LT. Take a real look at that. 2, maybe 3 of the guys have to learn this offense. Rookies and young FA's backing them up. This IS the weakest link at this time on the team. They may shock the world and play lights out, which we all hope they do, but we much also sit back and realize what we really have too. A young in experience line that will go though growing pains. That's why Wanny is playing the D up. They will have to be the best D in Franchise history to make up for our O this Year.
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Points taken. Someone said it already in this thread that there are good arguements both ways that we will have a good line, or that they will suck. Here is my view on each projected starter:

LT Wade Smith - Played well enough last year to get us by, but had some big mistakes a crucial times. But, he did do good enough to be named to a few all-rookie teams. After a full season in 2003, a full mini-camp and training camp in 2004 as the starter, and weight room, he should be minimumly a little better. For a player that was "good enough" last year, a little better is just that, a little better

LG Jeno James - Left Carolina to come here because here this is his line. He has, from what MC reporters have said, kind of taken over the leadership role on the line. He is a big, strong run blocker, and is big improvement over 2003 Nails.

C Seth McKinney - I think has better physical skills then Ruddy the past few years, but didn't have the experience to learn the mental part yet. Along with Wade Smith, a offseason of mini camps and training camp as the starter has probably progressed him expenetially.

RG Greg Jerman (pronounced German but spelled Jerman) - Don't know much about him.....cross my fingers and hope!

RT Vernon Carey - From college tapes and mini camp reports, sounds like once he's locked on to you....hold on! Mauler type blocker that should be better the Todd Wade in run block, and hopefully doesn't drop off in the pass protection department.

Any comments?
 
NLude33 said:
Points taken. Someone said it already in this thread that there are good arguements both ways that we will have a good line, or that they will suck. Here is my view on each projected starter:

LT Wade Smith - Played well enough last year to get us by, but had some big mistakes a crucial times. But, he did do good enough to be named to a few all-rookie teams. After a full season in 2003, a full mini-camp and training camp in 2004 as the starter, and weight room, he should be minimumly a little better. For a player that was "good enough" last year, a little better is just that, a little better

LG Jeno James - Left Carolina to come here because here this is his line. He has, from what MC reporters have said, kind of taken over the leadership role on the line. He is a big, strong run blocker, and is big improvement over 2003 Nails.

C Seth McKinney - I think has better physical skills then Ruddy the past few years, but didn't have the experience to learn the mental part yet. Along with Wade Smith, a offseason of mini camps and training camp as the starter has probably progressed him expenetially.

RG Greg Jerman (pronounced German but spelled Jerman) - Don't know much about him.....cross my fingers and hope!

RT Vernon Carey - From college tapes and mini camp reports, sounds like once he's locked on to you....hold on! Mauler type blocker that should be better the Todd Wade in run block, and hopefully doesn't drop off in the pass protection department.

Any comments?
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Agreed. However, I do question the overwhelming consensus that McKinney is an upgrade over Ruddy. I am curious as to what makes you and everyone else come to this assessment. The guy played two games. And even as Ruddy pathetically crawled his way through the last four games of the season, he still started over the guy. I am not convinced on McKinney because I have no basis to think otherwise. Please educate me, and make me feel better about the situation. Thanks
 
ABrownLamp said:
Agreed. However, I do question the overwhelming consensus that McKinney is an upgrade over Ruddy. I am curious as to what makes you and everyone else come to this assessment. The guy played two games. And even as Ruddy pathetically crawled his way through the last four games of the season, he still started over the guy. I am not convinced on McKinney because I have no basis to think otherwise. Please educate me, and make me feel better about the situation. Thanks
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Well, I would say that Wanny's loyalty to his players specifically veterans might explain why he kept Ruddy in the starting lineup. I think Wanny probably knew last year was gonna be Ruddy's last year as a Dolphin since they've been grooming McKinney along for a while. That's just a guess though.
 
NLude33 said:
Points taken. Someone said it already in this thread that there are good arguements both ways that we will have a good line, or that they will suck. Here is my view on each projected starter:

LT Wade Smith - Played well enough last year to get us by, but had some big mistakes a crucial times. But, he did do good enough to be named to a few all-rookie teams. After a full season in 2003, a full mini-camp and training camp in 2004 as the starter, and weight room, he should be minimumly a little better. For a player that was "good enough" last year, a little better is just that, a little better

LG Jeno James - Left Carolina to come here because here this is his line. He has, from what MC reporters have said, kind of taken over the leadership role on the line. He is a big, strong run blocker, and is big improvement over 2003 Nails.

C Seth McKinney - I think has better physical skills then Ruddy the past few years, but didn't have the experience to learn the mental part yet. Along with Wade Smith, a offseason of mini camps and training camp as the starter has probably progressed him expenetially.

RG Greg Jerman (pronounced German but spelled Jerman) - Don't know much about him.....cross my fingers and hope!

RT Vernon Carey - From college tapes and mini camp reports, sounds like once he's locked on to you....hold on! Mauler type blocker that should be better the Todd Wade in run block, and hopefully doesn't drop off in the pass protection department.

Any comments?
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I still don't see any reason to say this line, at this point in time, is better than last year's. You pretty much listed what a lot of optimistic people have stated about them. I would say right now, people are hoping for better, but in actuality we really don't know. I still think as of right now..we may be a bit weaker..and remember Carey is not the starting RT. St. Clair...until the phins officially change that, Wanny just yesterday stated St. Clair. I kinda disagree about Wade, don't think he was that good last year. I think Norv's play calling helped him a lot..this is the soph jink year..I hope he overcomes it. This is a young line and to compare them to last year's line is a bit premature. If not physical, the mental aspects of last year's line and still out play this one at this point. Hopefully these guys are a quick study and the "so called" physical skills show themselves. I know I'm hoping for the best..but understand the reality.
 
I feel that more people have been counting this years line out more than we are over- estimating it. I think the bottom line better players will make it a better O-line immediately. They may make some mistakes while they are still gelling together as a unit but its not going to be on every freakin play. Our 2003 O-line was terrible and its the absolute most to blame for our offensive ineptness. I'd say even more so than Fiedler or Griese becasue both have perfromed better with better o-line play.
 
I think the most important point to be made regarding our O-line is that we at least have reasonable hope this year and the group of guys we have now will get better in time. Look at last year's horrendous situation.

Last year, Wade Smith was as green as they come. We were very fortunate he did as well as he did. Jamie Nails played like a quadraplegic last year. Stick a fork in him because he is evidently done. No one this year has even called him. No hope at that position last year. Tim Ruddy is old and played with injuries. He just doesn't have the strength left. Again, no one has called Ruddy this year. Same thing with Perry - best days are behind him and no interest from other teams. Let's face it from last year's line the ONLY hope was Todd Wade, who many say is overrated.

This year, Wade Smith has bulked up about 20 pounds and should be wiser. Jeno James has looked very sharp and is coming off an excellent year. McKinney looked good in the few times he played and we have many possibilities on the right side with Carey, McIntosh, and Jerman as front-runners.

The point is, we are not necessarily overestimating this O-line, but at least this year there is legitimate hope for improvement. Last year, there was no hope.
 
ABrownLamp said:
Agreed. However, I do question the overwhelming consensus that McKinney is an upgrade over Ruddy. I am curious as to what makes you and everyone else come to this assessment. The guy played two games. And even as Ruddy pathetically crawled his way through the last four games of the season, he still started over the guy. I am not convinced on McKinney because I have no basis to think otherwise. Please educate me, and make me feel better about the situation. Thanks
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From the games I have seen (and can remember) McKinney is much stronger, and very much faster than Ruddy has been the last couple years. I couldn't figure out last year why after Ruddy got hurt, we didn't just leave him in for experience and production. Supposedly McKinney was missing blocking calls, and that is the ONLY reason he didn't start over Ruddy. So HOPEFULLY he pick that stuff up, and be better.

One of our best games last year for the O-Line was I think against Baltimore, where we had Smith-Yates-McKinney-Jerman-Wade as starters wasn't it? I don't really remember, and I can't find a list of who started every game....if someone could help that'd be great. Ricky didn't get a ton of yards, but against the Ravens D, anything over 100 is great!!!
 
taylorj99 said:
The general consensus here is that our O-line is slightly better than last years line. However, everywhere else I read, no one expects us to do crap with our "completely revamped" offensive line and questionable QB. What do you think? Are we giving them too much credit?
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No, Slightly better is probably about right, and it may not be good enough, if Feely isn't an upgrade over Fiedler our QB won't be good enough..........our head coach has already proven himself not good enough.......where does that leave us?

With a strong defense, some nice skill position players that will be underutilized due to the reasons specified in the previous paragraph.........leading us to yet another 8-8 to 9-7 type season..........
 
BlueFin said:
No, Slightly better is probably about right, and it may not be good enough, if Feely isn't an upgrade over Fiedler our QB won't be good enough..........our head coach has already proven himself not good enough.......where does that leave us?

With a strong defense, some nice skill position players that will be underutilized due to the reasons specified in the previous paragraph.........leading us to yet another 8-8 to 9-7 type season..........
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Yet another 8-8 to 9-7 type season?

Slightly better OL
Same talent (or better) at QB
Same HC
Better skill players (with the addition of Boston)
Strong defense again
More favorable schedule (IMO)

The net result is a 1-2 game drop in the number of wins?

I'm sure there is logic in there somewhere, but I can't find it.
 
I look at the Oline situation from this perspective: what more could we have done? Last year's line was bad!.....how bad?.so bad that Norv Turner had to dump his offensive playbook to find stuff we could try and execute. It made our few skill players look worse than ever. This year Rick Speilman made a run at both Woody and Tait, the best Olinemen available in free agency and bowed out only when the bidding became insane. He got Jeno James, Damien McIntosh, and John St.Clair and then drafted Vernon Carey, Tony Pape, and Rex Hadnut. He passed on Cosey Coleman who is likely out as a Tampa Bay starter and Greg Randall who could not survive the 49'ers minicamps. Both appear to be insightful moves. The only player I am sorry we didn't take a shot at was John Wellbourn for RG but he might have ended up in a salary dispute asking for Tait/Woody money so perhaps its for the best.

Is the Oline improved? Can't tell yet but the moves have been made in the right direction for youth, toughness, and versatility. What more can a front office do?
 
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