Armando: Ireland job doesn't appear at risk

[Danny]

Wow, this is so stupid. I get it that Ross and not us will make the decision to either keep or fire Ireland. Like someone else said, we can keep on going at it for weeks and it wont matter but I can say this. Most people on here and everywhere will tell you that Ireland has done a horrible job of getting talent for our team and that's not just people saying that. It is a fact as our 4 losing seasons in a row prove. To blame Parcells makes no sense. What has changed since Parcells left? What's funny is that we actually had one winning season with Parcells and none since he left.....lol...I'm not giving Bill credit for that one winning season as we had a very soft schedule and Penny feel on our laps. The fact is that Parcells wasn't even here in his mind. He was asked by Wayne for some help with the team and got paid a ton of money for it. Ireland was the on board with just about everything Parcells liked. People can spin and twist things around all they want but the fact is that JI has been terrible with free agency and the draft as well and only a very few blind people on this board can't see it but hey, you might get your wish and Ross might keep him around and we'll continue to be the laughing stock of the NFL.

Ozzy rules!!

 

[Nublar7]

i find it hard to believe that nublar is not pro ireland. Holy ****, this thread has been going 16 pages and still going! come on, dont try and hide that you want ireland to stay anymore dude, its quite obvious when you debate til the end of this dude and wont admit your wrong. I dont mind ireland staying either but on one condition, he has to let ross change the contract and let philbin have final say, enough is enough. Changes need to be made.

Again with the accusations and assumptions from you, dude. I have already stated my stance on Ireland and you can read it in this thread if you take the time to read it. I am not "pro-Ireland", I really don't care either way. However when there are factual errors in people's posts I will correct them to try and help educate them on the situation.

 

[Zounds]

I'm benevolent, so I've done the research for you. The controlling language is in the NFL's "Anti-Tampering" policy which dictates that in order for a team to be unable to block the hiring of a front office position, the position must QUALIFY as a "General Manager" position as defined by said Anti-Tampering policy language. The language is as follows:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...T12IA4&usg=AFQjCNG-6nZNwpczwJK5vHomx_O_8cobLA





NOW you know.

Sorry buddy, but I don't think you really understand what that means. You are claiming that the anti-tampering rules you quoted gives an executive transitioning into a GM position "final say", but it says nothing about a GM getting "final say". The section that you quoted in the NFL bylaws grants every GM the "authority over personnel decisions", not just executives getting promoted to GM.

So you should try an use some logic here in understanding these rules: If the anti-tampering bylaws says that every GM has "authority over personnel decisions", and we know that every GM does not have "final say", then we can determine that every GM with "authority over personnel decisions" does NOT have "final say".

Its kind of ironic that you posted a link that actually says the opposite of what you claim. If what you said were actually true, that the quoted article from the bylaws grants GMs "final say", then guys like Jeff Fisher and Andy Reid wouldn't actually have "final say", the GM would. You really shouldn't be so quick to call people ignorant and stupid when you yourself have misinterpreted rules. Just because you stood on the other side of the fence and eavesdropped on Parcells at the East West Shrine game while pretending to be a scout doesn't give you any more credibility.

 

[Zounds]

Yes and the NFL league office is one of those people that have seen his contract and they verified that he had final say authority on personnel written into his contract otherwise they would have given Jerry Jones the right to refuse the Dolphins' interview request, which he had every intention of doing. Jerry Jones' hands were tied because the Dolphins were offering him a full GM title including final say authority over personnel. The Dolphins had to craft Bill Parcells' contract wording carefully so that it wouldn't contradict that authority. Both contracts were reviewed by the league.

While we are on the subject of tampering, I'll point out your BS in this post as well: Jerry Jones could have blocked Ireland from joining the Dolphins if he wanted. There is a rule in the tampering bylaws that says even if an executive is offered a promotion to GM on another team, that his current team can block the move if he was under contract - even if it were for a promotion. Ireland was under contract with the Cowboys, and Jones could have blocked the move entirely. He chose to let Ireland go because he knew Ireland would never be GM of the Cowboys, buecause that position is already fillled by Jones himself.

You said that to Dolphins had to add language of "final say" into Ireland contract in order to make the move promotion, yet in your other post you say that "final say" was granted to Ireland by the anti-tampering bylaws. So who exactly gave him "final say" - the NFL or the Miami Dolphins? You make no sense.

 

[ckparrothead]

Sorry buddy, but I don't think you really understand what that means. You are claiming that the anti-tampering rules you quoted gives an executive transitioning into a GM position "final say", but it says nothing about a GM getting "final say". The section that you quoted in the NFL bylaws grants every GM the "authority over personnel decisions", not just executives getting promoted to GM.

So you should try an use some logic here in understanding these rules: If the anti-tampering bylaws says that every GM has "authority over personnel decisions", and we know that every GM does not have "final say", then we can determine that every GM with "authority over personnel decisions" does NOT have "final say".

Its kind of ironic that you posted a link that actually says the opposite of what you claim. If what you said were actually true, that the quoted article from the bylaws grants GMs "final say", then guys like Jeff Fisher and Andy Reid wouldn't actually have "final say", the GM would. You really shouldn't be so quick to call people ignorant and stupid when you yourself have misinterpreted rules. Just because you stood on the other side of the fence and eavesdropped on Parcells at the East West Shrine game while pretending to be a scout doesn't give you any more credibility.

It could not possibly be more black and white and it is absolutely astounding that you are able to read it so drastically wrong.

Let me simplify it for you. When the league reviews a contract for a high level executive, they (not you, not the press, not the team) make a determination on whether that job qualifies as a GM job, for the purposes of determining whether the executive's old team can block him from taking the job. To qualify as a GM position the job must have authority over free agent signing, the draft, trades and termination. There cannot be two GMs on one team.

You can CLAIM that there are GM jobs out there that don't have final say on personnel, but you have certainly not backed that claim up nor shown that any of these supposed jobs qualify as a GM job under the league's Anti-Tampering policy. A team can call a guy a GM and that job not actually qualify as a GM for the purposes of the Anti-Tanpering policy. In that case the only difference would be the league would not prevent the executive's old team from blocking his hire, IF the old team wanted to block him.

It's unbelievable that you can be proven so drastically and undeniably wrong and still deny it. Are you one of those people who thinks the sun revolves around the earth and dinosaurs walked the earth 5,000 years ago?

 

[WitheringPlant]

If anyone ever needed proof of the severe lack of comprehension ability on this board, look no further than this thread. Sometimes, I really wonder why CK bothers.

 

[WVDolphan]

For me the biggest reason we need to beat Buffalo and Jacksonville is that will put us at 5-3 at home this season which is a big step in the right direction. If they lose one or both of those games that'll make 4 seasons in a row without a winning record at home. Above everything this is the real reason for dwindling fan support imo. Even if you're 8-8 every season but 8-0 at home I think the fans would still be coming in droves.

Matty Ice's 32-4 record at home since 2008 laughs hard at going 5-3 at home.

 

[TheWalrus]

It's unbelievable that you can be proven so drastically and undeniably wrong and still deny it.

Some people just have a gift, and few are so gifted at this as Zounds.

Are you one of those people who thinks the sun revolves around the earth and dinosaurs walked the earth 5,000 years ago?

PoFo veterans will know why I when I say that I saw this and .

 

[Hayden Fox]

Clean the house of Ireland and let Joe pick a GM.

 

[tylerdolphin]

It's unbelievable that you can be proven so drastically and undeniably wrong and still deny it. Are you one of those people who thinks the sun revolves around the earth and dinosaurs walked the earth 5,000 years ago?

Wish I could have thanked that entire post more than once.

 

[tylerdolphin]

Keep up the good fight Zounds. Never admit to being wrong at all even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

The Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail appreciates your stubbornness.

 

[TheWalrus]

Keep up the good fight Zounds. Never admit to being wrong at all even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

The Black Knight from Monty Python's Holy Grail appreciates your stubbornness.

Too bad there isn't a way to, uh, make that his avatar. Hmmm?

 

[Third Eye]

"Dumb" is pretending to know DETAILED interactions between two men you've never met. As I said before the difference between us is you THINK you know exactly how their relationship was and exactly what happened, even though you have virtually no basis for it. I don't know how those interactions went nor how those decisions were made. Nor do you. The objective fact remains that Jeff Ireland was given authority over all personnel decisions when he was hired, and thank you for conceding that I am undeniably correct on that issue. What you still fail to get is that any authority that Bill Parcells exercised over the roster was authority willingly given up by the man who actually had the authority.

If I came to you and said that Jeff Ireland's moves can't be judged because Mike Dee is the Team President and we don't know when he may or may not have overridden Jeff Ireland, would that be a valid argument? No, Jeff Ireland is the General Manager. If he lets Mike Dee dictate things to him then it's still Jeff Ireland's choice, just as it was Jeff Ireland's choice to come to Miami in the first place.

I think the reality is that Bill Parcells threw his weight around a lot in 2008, and Jeff Ireland let him. At that time Wayne Huizenga was the owner and Wayne would've sided with Parcells in any dispute. However by the beginning of the 2009 off season, Wayne Huizenga was no longer the owner. It was Steven Ross. Many reports have been given that the relationship between Ross and Parcells was cold at best. And in fact it was written into Parcells' contract that when Huizenga sold the team, Bill's contract became guaranteed whether he worked for the Dolphins or not. He could quit and collect all the money, or he could keep working and collect all the money. Either way he gets all the money. Ross on the other hand is close with Carl Peterson, who is the one who gave Jeff Ireland his first scouting jobs. Combine all that with the contracts which state in black and white that Ireland has authority over the roster, and the reality is that if you don't believe Ireland truly had the authority in 2008 then you have to admit that by 2009 the ball was fully in Ireland's court. Any dispute between Ireland and Parcells would've likely seen Ross siding with Ireland and Bill Parcells saying "kiss my ass, I'm leaving with my money".

So again I point to the contract, the structure of the relationship, the relationship between Ross and Ireland right up to this day, and I say that whatever authority Ireland gave Parcells to make roster moves without his say-so, was authority directly ceded by Jeff Ireland via being a pushover. He had all the aces.

I find it funny that in paragraph 1 you say Nublar is dumb for pretending to know the interactions between Ireland and Parcells, then right away in paragraph 3 you immediately provide your own conjecture. Laughable.

 

[MrEd]

There are going to be empty seats with or without Jeff Ireland. Just how the locals roll.

I believe the ticket sales are directly related to the fact that we did not upgrade the WR position and local fans not expecting much excitement on Offense. imo

 

[The Tannehills Have Eyes]

Clicked the thread thinking it went the right direction and didn't turn into a useless debate. But since we're here what do you guys think of next year's draft class compared to others? Weakest QB class in a while IMO.