Baker feels he's gone.

Muck

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Ok, I gotta chime in.

IMO, Ogden's the odd man out. So it's between Baker and A.J. And because we're talking about the 5th WR spot here......you can't say that Baker has outperformed A.J. because the 5th WR has to be a special teamer.

And as far as special teams go, A.J. is the man. Baker has certainly been the better WR. He can make things happen. But there's four other guys ahead of him. And they're going to get ALL the time. So Baker's WR skills would go to waste while A.J. would be performing his specialty.....returning kicks.

It hurts me to say this, but I gotta go with A.J. Johnson. Baker has been my guy since 1999. I saw him blow out his knee when he was tearing up training camp. I've watched him fight every year. I really, really, really wanted him to make it. And he will catch on somewhere. But A.J. is the game breaking return man that we've lacked for I don't know how many years.
 

Dajesus

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Originally posted by jaxdolfan
The whole thing about the 5th receiver is that he will most likely never take the field in Norv's offense. So Baker being the better receiver doesn't matter. Special teams is what matters, and AJ is the more explosive returner.
I haven't seen that yet. Baker has had a better average on returns then AJ thus far. As far as Ogden being solid i don't know what games that guy is watching. 3 fumbles last season on punts!
 

Dajesus

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Let me say this again.

Baker 16.7 yards per punt return thus far
AJ 13.6 yppr thus far
Baker 26 yards per kickoff return
AJ 23 yards per kick return

The #5 guy has played alot in the final 3 games both last season and the year before so that should not be overlooked.
 

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Ogden can play all 3 WR spots, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden helps in all phases of ST, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden has very good hands and almost never drops passes...he has made mistakes on PR but I think it was due to concentration. I seem to remember some guy named Ahman Green who had a fumble problem...(I'm not comparing the two athletically, but the fumble thing is the same problem.)

For fans who bash Ogden so much about fumbles, most of you guys sure seem to forget a little something about RW...did he have a fumble problem last year? Someone help me out with that, I can't remember.
 

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Originally posted by Phinstd
For fans who bash Ogden so much about fumbles, most of you guys sure seem to forget a little something about RW...did he have a fumble problem last year? Someone help me out with that, I can't remember.


Now, I do understand the point, but not the comparison. If Ogden's production was even a fraction, of that of RW's, then the "fumble problem" would be a non-issue.

I think us dolfans can live with a couple fumbles here and there, if they come as part of a 1200 yard season from Ricky. But the mere fact that Ogden has not been spectacular, just ok-servicabe for us, that is the big difference.

I think I heard the ultimate "kiss of death" for Ogden by Wanny on his local radio show. He used the dreaded "We know what he can do" phrase,when asked about playing time this week for the guys competing for that last roster spot.
 

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Originally posted by Phinstd
Ogden can play all 3 WR spots, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden helps in all phases of ST, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden has very good hands and almost never drops passes...he has made mistakes on PR but I think it was due to concentration. I seem to remember some guy named Ahman Green who had a fumble problem...(I'm not comparing the two athletically, but the fumble thing is the same problem.)

For fans who bash Ogden so much about fumbles, most of you guys sure seem to forget a little something about RW...did he have a fumble problem last year? Someone help me out with that, I can't remember.
Are you president of Odgen fan club ...;)
I would hate to see Odgen back in there over either Baker or AJ.....Odgen is the reliable fair catch returner (who likes to fumble)..
 

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Originally posted by Phinstd
Ogden can play all 3 WR spots, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden helps in all phases of ST, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden has very good hands and almost never drops passes...he has made mistakes on PR but I think it was due to concentration. I seem to remember some guy named Ahman Green who had a fumble problem...(I'm not comparing the two athletically, but the fumble thing is the same problem.)

For fans who bash Ogden so much about fumbles, most of you guys sure seem to forget a little something about RW...did he have a fumble problem last year? Someone help me out with that, I can't remember.
In Gailey's O Odgen played all three positions..I'm not sure of that in this O..they're just learning it..Odgen was with Chan in Dallas and new the O..but not this one..So I think he's now one dimensional too..oh plus dropping punts..1 1/2 dimensional..but not electrifying in any position..Baker and AJ are more electrifying in both positions..more exciting, because you know there's chance to go all the way on punts or kickoffs..with Odgen Defenses don't even blink. I think we should move on like we did with Lamar, DG, walker, cousins and add new players and see if we get more out of him..I think some things should change on this team..what we have wasn't getting us by the 1st wave of playoffs.the insertion of new blood may...ie..RW, McMicheals, Nails, Freeman, Dixon at LT, Chester , Ogunuwy, bowman, Jay W., Rob B., backups, seth Mck..Searcy..J. Moore. AJ and Baker..CC starting at WR..Ward starting at slop from the begining with no injuries. All this newness hopefully help get us furture along the playoff path. plus Norv's new O..and tweating by the D. as Zach says::

"We've been a sound defense, but not something I'd call real dynamic," Thomas says. "With the offense we'll unleash now, we'll be able to be more aggressive, take more chances. We can blitz more, for instance. We might give up a big play now and then, but we'll make more of them, too. I promise you, we'll be exciting on both sides of the ball."
 

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I believe the reason that Ogden is really disliked by many posters, and by one of the top writers from this site is the impression that Ogden is a gutless player.
 

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Guys I'm not a real Ogden supporter...I just want a reliable backup and that's exactly what Ogden has been. Fans don't like him so they forget the good things and focus on the bad things.

Just like with players they like they forget about the bad things and focus on the good.(ie my RW example of fumbles....obviously I don't think Ogden is anywhere near as valuable, just pointing out that every player seems to have drawbacks.)

Ogden to me has been the exact opposite of a gutless player, he has battled everywhere he has been his whole career. He's never been given anything and every season the team tries to replace him and he holds onto by working hard being dependable. To say he is gutless is crazy. He has made big catch after big catch for us when in there. I believe he caught four 4th down passes for us in the last two years and each contributed greatly to wins for the team. Speed or no speed, punt drops or no punt drops, helping the team win is what you want from a player and Ogden has done that for us....just as Wanny has said.
 

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Originally posted by Phinstd
Ogden can play all 3 WR spots, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden helps in all phases of ST, Baker and AJ do not. Ogden has very good hands and almost never drops passes...he has made mistakes on PR but I think it was due to concentration. I seem to remember some guy named Ahman Green who had a fumble problem...(I'm not comparing the two athletically, but the fumble thing is the same problem.)

For fans who bash Ogden so much about fumbles, most of you guys sure seem to forget a little something about RW...did he have a fumble problem last year? Someone help me out with that, I can't remember.
This is crazy! When has Ogden proven to be any type of WR? He has had like 10 catches in 2 years. Yeah Ricky fumbled 6 times, but he touched the ball 370 times last year. Ogden maybee had 40 touches and fumbled 3 times. I don't care if you fair catch every ball don't friggin fumble it. Nothing takes the steam out of a defense more than stopping an offense but having to go back out on the feild becuse the freaking punt returner can't hold on to the ball. Ogden is a bum and hasn't done anything to earn the loyalty that some of you are showing. Why is that just because they are on the team it makes some of you think you can't be the least bit critical? Baker and AJ have out played Jeff in every way this far, and i hope either one of them make the team before Ogden.
 

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Obviouly someone on the coaching staff liked Ogden and maybe it was Gailey. I also remember Wannstedt saying "we are always trying to get rid of this kid but he does so many different things for the team." Ogden is also the backup holder behind Royals. Didn't he also score a TD against the Packers (was that in 2000?) and is middle of the pack stat wise of PR?? This may sound like I'm defending Ogden and maybe it is but lets remember the facts. Don't remember if it was Baker or AJ but one of them put it on the ground this pre season. Now if Ogden has lost his job so be it and lets hope for a pick before he's cut.
 

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Ogdan has played flyer on PR teams and outside on KO coverage teams, that's not a good sign for Baker. One good sign is that it seems DW will only keep 3 TE's since he has now stated that Perry is the #3 TE. That opens another possible roster spot. Baker makes things happen and AJ has looked very good returning I'd like it if we kept both.
 

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DaJesus, if you disagree fine...but you say it's crazy? Come one man it's my opinion same as you, but's yours is right and mine's wrong?...nice logic there.

Ogden has not played on the field much to contribute, but when he has he's been valuable. If he doesn't make the team fine. I hope if he doesn't we don't judge him based solely on the other guys playing the other team's "Zebbie Lethridge's" and Ogden playing against real NFL players. Baker has made a few nice catches yes, but can he stay healthy? AJ, I would keep at this time, although he has not been as dynamic at returns as some make him out to be.
 

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I don't think no one think Odgen no good, I think he just doesn't give us a "every time the punt is in the air feel" that he will return it all the way.. I feel if someone maybe better at it..then we need to move on to the better player..but Odgen has had a chance to show consistency..the other two haven't and they won't if not given the opportunity.
 
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