Best Defensive Player On Our Team

[rickyfan85]

Should not be overly surprising... I think if you were to ask opposing DC's that same question... They would comment that the name they bring up the most would be Porter. The simply HAVE TO KNOW where he is at all times.

In essence if you can say the best player is the one that has the most impact on opposing Offensive gameplan I think the safest bet is JP.

Your first question has a simple answer. They already know where he is all the time, he's a weakside linebacker that lines up in the defensive end position on most plays.

Secondly I dont think he has THAT much of an impact on the gameplan. Whats the most they gameplan for? Double team him in a blocking scheme with your weakside lineman and running backs? He's predominantly a one dimensional threat, atleast thats his role in Pasqualoni's defense since he rarely has coverage assignments and.

I think Bell's diversity is what really affects the opposing teams game plan the most. Depending on how he is utilized is what is going to either make or break our chances of winning this sunday.

I realize that the best pass defenses are the ones that have a good pass rush, but i'm pretty sure the coaches if not cassal are going to be much more worried about Bell making huge plays.

 

[GoonBoss]

I personally agree with you. Porter is on pace to break the Dolphin and, maybe NFL sack record, and, that's pretty ding dang good. Bell has been playing a VERY good year. He and Allen are the only ligit players in that secondary, AFAIC.

 

[JimToss]

This is a ridiculously loaded question.
If you ask me who is the best (ie most talented, most gameplanning done around him) it is no doubt Joey Porter.
But, if you ask me who is most important to our d, I would have to say Fergie. A 3-4 does not run without the huge monster clogging up the middle. LBS are expendable in the scheme. Look at NE and PITT. They get injuries and just plug and play LBS.

 

[Kadiddlehopper]

No one player is the best. But Fergie is the most important.

 

[Atila]

The choices would be a lot better if you replaced Channing Crowder with....anyone.



just sayin' =)

 

[rickyfan85]

The choices would be a lot better if you replaced Channing Crowder with....anyone.



just sayin' =)

Eh, i think we discussed that issue in page two or three. But i hear ya he's definatley not one of my favorites but he does have a strong fan base.

 

[Fish-Head]

Your first question has a simple answer. They already know where he is all the time, he's a weakside linebacker that lines up in the defensive end position on most plays.

Secondly I dont think he has THAT much of an impact on the gameplan. Whats the most they gameplan for? Double team him in a blocking scheme with your weakside lineman and running backs? He's predominantly a one dimensional threat, atleast thats his role in Pasqualoni's defense since he rarely has coverage assignments and.

I think Bell's diversity is what really affects the opposing teams game plan the most. Depending on how he is utilized is what is going to either make or break our chances of winning this sunday.

I realize that the best pass defenses are the ones that have a good pass rush, but i'm pretty sure the coaches if not cassal are going to be much more worried about Bell making huge plays.

Sorry to say it but you are only proving the point... if JP is so easy to diagram and gameplan then the fact he is putting up monster numbers is even MORE incredible. Actually that was my point in the first post is that even when they know what he is gonna do or where he is coming from they still can't stop him. When I said 'know where he is' I really meant that the opposition needs to account for him.

I would disagree that Bell's diversity would put fear in any OC. I think he is having a terriffic season leading in tackles and covering well but he has hands of stone and I don't think any QB would think twice throwing against him. If he corralled those INT's maybe I might agree but the fact is he is solid just not a game changer...

JP consistently comes up big when we need it.

 

[rickyfan85]

Sorry to say it but you are only proving the point... if JP is so easy to diagram and gameplan then the fact he is putting up monster numbers is even MORE incredible. Actually that was my point in the first post is that even when they know what he is gonna do or where he is coming from they still can't stop him. When I said 'know where he is' I really meant that the opposition needs to account for him.

I would disagree that Bell's diversity would put fear in any OC. I think he is having a terriffic season leading in tackles and covering well but he has hands of stone and I don't think any QB would think twice throwing against him. If he corralled those INT's maybe I might agree but the fact is he is solid just not a game changer...

JP consistently comes up big when we need it.

Safeties arent supposed to lead in tackles. Linebackers are. So that statistic alone says that Bell is more (whether by opportunity or not) involved in the overall scheme of things than Porter. True, Porter's rush could affect the ammount of receivers that are available on a given play, considering a RB would stay back to block, but what i'm saying is that he's just a pass rusher.

Bell is like the Quarterback of the defense. Strange as it sounds, he hasta assess what the formation is and make adjustments. Somtimes he blitzes, alot of times he stops the run, and obviously he's our leading tackler.

BTW he's also the franchise record holder for most sacks by a defensive back.

Based on what Bell does, is how the offense is going to coordinate their efforts on the larger spectrum.

Porter's solution is easy. We know what he's going to do, and where he's going to line up, and if a double team doesnt stop him then thats when we say "this guy is a superstar." So what i'm saying is that even the best of the best that get double teamed still have a hard time being a pass rush factor.

Bell has the full spectrum of skills, he doesnt have a weakness and he's making the crazy plays ALL over the field. plus you need to take into consideration that this guy has had what, 2 ACL injuries and he's still around producing the way he is. Not bad for a 6th round pick.

 

[Fish-Head]

Safeties arent supposed to lead in tackles Linebackers are..

The flip side to that coin is why LB's are not leading the team in tackles. I don't believe it is because Bell is beating them to it every time... It could be argued that missed tackles and assignments have at the very least CONTRIBUTED to the inflation of this stat. I don't know anyone who would argue that we are an excellent tackling team.

So that statistic alone says that Bell is more (whether by opportunity or not) involved in the overall scheme of things than Porter. True, Porter's rush could affect the ammount of receivers that are available on a given play, considering a RB would stay back to block, but what i'm saying is that he's just a pass rusher.

That is a little like saying JT was JUST a pass rusher... The value of a pass rusher even (for arguments sake) a 'pure' one cannot be underestimated... We both know very well how secondary play and the rush are completely interconnected... And I would dare to say that JP is IN NO WAY A LIABILITY IN THE RUNNING GAME. He is simply not as one dimensional as you would like to infer. Pass rushing is WHAT HE DOES BEST.

Bell is like the Quarterback of the defense. Strange as it sounds, he hasta assess what the formation is and make adjustments. Somtimes he blitzes, alot of times he stops the run, and obviously he's our leading tackler.

BTW he's also the franchise record holder for most sacks by a defensive back.

Based on what Bell does, is how the offense is going to coordinate their efforts on the larger spectrum.

The fact is Porter has MUCH more opportunity to change games and does it on a regular basis. An offensive coordinator cannot afford to look past him. They need to account for him in every scheme. As I said previously Bell has had chances to be a game changer and he dropped those sure INT's... These are missed opportunites and the great ones don't do it. Every time the defence needed Porter to stand up and be counted he was there.

Porter's solution is easy. We know what he's going to do, and where he's going to line up, and if a double team doesnt stop him then thats when we say "this guy is a superstar." So what i'm saying is that even the best of the best that get double teamed still have a hard time being a pass rush factor.

I think you ended the argument right here. Porter IS doing all those things... when someone is not just leading the league in sacks but also on pace to set the record for most in a season it is about time we labelled him a superstar. And no one can argue the fact JP IS A PASS RUSH FACTOR in spite of the offensive scheming to stop him...

Also he is one of the best at getting in people's heads... getting them thinking about him. The QB, OL and RB are all looking for 55 when they walk to the line.

Lastly I would say that the attention JP gets from opposing offenses makes it easier for the others to make plays... Even when JP is not in on a play he is a factor.

 

[rickyfan85]

The flip side to that coin is why LB's are not leading the team in tackles. I don't believe it is because Bell is beating them to it every time... It could be argued that missed tackles and assignments have at the very least CONTRIBUTED to the inflation of this stat. I don't know anyone who would argue that we are an excellent tackling team.



That is a little like saying JT was JUST a pass rusher... The value of a pass rusher even (for arguments sake) a 'pure' one cannot be underestimated... We both know very well how secondary play and the rush are completely interconnected... And I would dare to say that JP is IN NO WAY A LIABILITY IN THE RUNNING GAME. He is simply not as one dimensional as you would like to infer. Pass rushing is WHAT HE DOES BEST.




The fact is Porter has MUCH more opportunity to change games and does it on a regular basis. An offensive coordinator cannot afford to look past him. They need to account for him in every scheme. As I said previously Bell has had chances to be a game changer and he dropped those sure INT's... These are missed opportunites and the great ones don't do it. Every time the defence needed Porter to stand up and be counted he was there.



I think you ended the argument right here. Porter IS doing all those things... when someone is not just leading the league in sacks but also on pace to set the record for most in a season it is about time we labelled him a superstar. And no one can argue the fact JP IS A PASS RUSH FACTOR in spite of the offensive scheming to stop him...

Also he is one of the best at getting in people's heads... getting them thinking about him. The QB, OL and RB are all looking for 55 when they walk to the line.

Lastly I would say that the attention JP gets from opposing offenses makes it easier for the others to make plays... Even when JP is not in on a play he is a factor.

Your right...kinda....Even if Bell beats them to it 1/4th of the time thats still freakin amazing for a safety.


and Taylor WAS just a pass rusher. Actually he dropped back into coverage and blitzed from multiple sides of the field towards the end of his miami tenure as a hybrid LB, but for the most part of his career he was a pass rusher. Primarily One Duty. And i'm not understimnating jason's value JT was a pretty good run stopper too, better than porter mind you. But in no way am i calling porter a liability. I dont know where you go that from but his "superstar" Pass rush skill does not translate into superstar run stopping. He's above average at best. Coverage? we dont even use the guy in coverage so in my book, he's mainly a one duty guy just like JT.

I appreciate your admiration for the guys up front, but the reason i'm so high on this safety position is that i feel has a greater potential to either screw you or pull through for you, it can go either way and Bell has been playing lights out.

Based on rarity, a B+ or A- safety is about as hard to come by as a grade A pass rusher.

True Strong Safety > OLB thats used primarily as a DE.

 

[Fish-Head]

Your right...kinda....Even if Bell beats them to it 1/4th of the time thats still freakin amazing for a safety.


and Taylor WAS just a pass rusher. Actually he dropped back into coverage and blitzed from multiple sides of the field towards the end of his miami tenure as a hybrid LB, but for the most part of his career he was a pass rusher. Primarily One Duty. And i'm not understimnating jason's value JT was a pretty good run stopper too, better than porter mind you. But in no way am i calling porter a liability. I dont know where you go that from but his "superstar" Pass rush skill does not translate into superstar run stopping. He's above average at best. Coverage? we dont even use the guy in coverage so in my book, he's mainly a one duty guy just like JT.

I appreciate your admiration for the guys up front, but the reason i'm so high on this safety position is that i feel has a greater potential to either screw you or pull through for you, it can go either way and Bell has been playing lights out.

Based on rarity, a B+ or A- safety is about as hard to come by as a grade A pass rusher.

True Strong Safety > OLB thats used primarily as a DE.

The hardest part about this argument is that I agree with you Bell is putting together a great season... I have no doubt the FO will get him under contract as I think he has proved his worth... Unfortunately THIS SEASON, Porter is having a SPECTACULAR campaign and not just in comparison to this team but LEAGUE-WIDE. Any other year and I might agree with you but this year he is up against the freight train that is Joey Porter.

Also comparing the 2 positions is difficult as a safety does not have as much opportunity to change the course of a game as does a pass rusher. It is in this instance that I believe Porter stands alone. Porter has not missed chances... I cannot stress enough the magnitude of the missed opportunities those INT's were... They could have swung momentum in our favor and completely changed the course of a game... Unfortunately they did not. This IMO is the ONLY glaring weakness in his game... He makes those picks and you got yourself an argument.

He is one of those guys that is always around the ball and makes plays all over the field... I love it and we should be so lucky to have BOTH these guys in the aqua and orange... :up:

 

[AZStryker]

I can't believe you included Channing Crowder on that list. He's our FOURTH best Linebacker

 

[DFJR88]

is this REALLY a poll?

 

[dlockz]

I can't believe you included Channing Crowder on that list. He's our FOURTH best Linebacker

damn you hate Crowder. I definately think he plays better than Akinole or Roth but we all have opinions i guess.

 

[rickyfan85]

damn you hate Crowder. I definately think he plays better than Akinole or Roth but we all have opinions i guess.

And he's utilized in a much more diverse way. Blitzes, coverage, run stop.

Main problem i have with him is that he's been here under Zach for so long, and his rate of progress hasnt been what most had expected. Maybe it was our fault, who knows.

But mainly, its the fact that he overcommits somtimes. He's getting better though, slowly but surely.