Bill Lazor on Ryan Tannehill

[DolfanDuBbZ~]

i said almost this very thing in one or two of the threads after lazor was hired. i am not so sure that this a good fit for him because he DOESNT read defenses fast enough. and he had been in the same sytsem since college and 2 years as a pro and is still slow to get his reads. and it caused him on TO MANY occasions to hold the ball to long and collecting sacks!!

i would imagine that if one were to break down all the plays that ended up in a sack last year, and knowing what the call was and the responsibility's of the wr's and TE, you would find that tanny was responsible for many of the sacks that the o-line is blamed for. sure, the o-line had holes and needed fresh blood. they gave WAY to many sacks. but, ryan tannehill caused a bunch of those by not reading the D fast enough and holding the ball to long. he also has an tendency at times to have iffy pocket awareness that helped him get sacked.

he has his work cut out for him. its put up or shut up and no new contract if he fails. i am not going to say he absolutely will fail mostly because this offense is going to afford him many options and more open wrs and TE's and that could be the ticket for him. plus a new line with a LT who can actually block and a RT who who doesnt moonlight as a turnstyle!!

but his inability [so far] to not be quick on reads is a red flag and an issue that is going to make or break him this year. and the team!

Your theory is based on your bias towards Tannehill.

Your assessment of Tannehill, is trash.

 

[FSU Truth]

If you break the sacks down into categories of short sacks, normal sacks, and long sacks - then yes, Tannehill is at fault, or shares a large part of the blame, in the later 2 categories. But short sacks? That's not necessarily the case.

In the later part of last season, the league wide average percentages across those three categories were:
Short Sacks -- 34.6%
Normal Sacks -- 32.3%
Long Sacks -- 33.2%


Tannehill's percentages:
Short Sacks -- 53.7%
Normal Sacks -- 37.5%
Long Sacks -- 9.4%

Tannehill was sacked almost 20% more than the league average on short sacks. Often before he completed his drop defenders were around the tackles, and Dolphins linemen were often beaten off the snap a very high number of times. But also looking at the stats, Tannehill did an excellent job of not taking long sacks where he excels when either scrambling or moving outside the pocket.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sack-breakdowns



Football outsiders also separated the sacks out into blown blocks, confusion, and coverage sacks. Not surprisingly, the Dolphins were the team with the most blown blocks at 35.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sacks-confusion

While Tannehill still has things he needs to work on (decision making, patience, footwork, and trusting receivers), you cannot put the amount of sacks he took last season solely on him. There is a reason we replaced four fifth's of the Oline and spent our 1st round draft pick on a right tackle - as well as brought in Knowshon Moreno, who is a very good blocking and pass catching back.

Tannehill also does not hold onto the ball longer than other QBs. Only 6 QBs out of 26 got the football out of their hands faster than Tannehill did in the 2013 season. Tannehill spent 2.5 seconds or less in the pocket on 64.9% percent of his dropbacks, which is the second-highest percentage of such passes in the league. His 4.3 seconds to scramble on average and 3.6 seconds to be sacked on average are both the 6th fastest in the league in those categories. His 2.28 seconds to attempt a pass on average is the 2nd fastest in the league. By contrast, Foles took an average of 2.88 seconds to throw the ball in 2013. He held the ball 2.6 seconds or longer on 61% of his drops - which led the league. Foles made better decisions, but also had a better supporting cast.

A large portion of Tannehill's INT's came in just 3 games - New Orleans, and Buffalo twice. He threw 8 INTs in those games where he was under constant duress, frustrated with teammates, and was trying to force something to happen. Most QBs throw INTs in bunches like this though with Peyton Manning having 18 3+ INT games in his career. With better protection and offensive schemes, Tannehill should be able to cut that number down significantly as well.

Let's all just hope Benton and Lazor, 2 of our better off-season acquisitions, get the most out of the Dolphins offense this season...

There have been a number of videos on this site as well that show the line breaking down, not just getting beat, but literally being shoved into the QB by d-lineman...

Tannehill's is a fault for some, but not the number a lot of those who want him replaced says are his fault....

 

[LDaniel7]

If you break the sacks down into categories of short sacks, normal sacks, and long sacks - then yes, Tannehill is at fault, or shares a large part of the blame, in the later 2 categories. But short sacks? That's not necessarily the case.

In the later part of last season, the league wide average percentages across those three categories were:
Short Sacks -- 34.6%
Normal Sacks -- 32.3%
Long Sacks -- 33.2%


Tannehill's percentages:
Short Sacks -- 53.7%
Normal Sacks -- 37.5%
Long Sacks -- 9.4%

Tannehill was sacked almost 20% more than the league average on short sacks. Often before he completed his drop defenders were around the tackles, and Dolphins linemen were often beaten off the snap a very high number of times. But also looking at the stats, Tannehill did an excellent job of not taking long sacks where he excels when either scrambling or moving outside the pocket.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sack-breakdowns



Football outsiders also separated the sacks out into blown blocks, confusion, and coverage sacks. Not surprisingly, the Dolphins were the team with the most blown blocks at 35.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sacks-confusion

While Tannehill still has things he needs to work on (decision making, patience, footwork, and trusting receivers), you cannot put the amount of sacks he took last season solely on him. There is a reason we replaced four fifth's of the Oline and spent our 1st round draft pick on a right tackle - as well as brought in Knowshon Moreno, who is a very good blocking and pass catching back.

Tannehill also does not hold onto the ball longer than other QBs. Only 6 QBs out of 26 got the football out of their hands faster than Tannehill did in the 2013 season. Tannehill spent 2.5 seconds or less in the pocket on 64.9% percent of his dropbacks, which is the second-highest percentage of such passes in the league. His 4.3 seconds to scramble on average and 3.6 seconds to be sacked on average are both the 6th fastest in the league in those categories. His 2.28 seconds to attempt a pass on average is the 2nd fastest in the league. By contrast, Foles took an average of 2.88 seconds to throw the ball in 2013. He held the ball 2.6 seconds or longer on 61% of his drops - which led the league. Foles made better decisions, but also had a better supporting cast.

A large portion of Tannehill's INT's came in just 3 games - New Orleans, and Buffalo twice. He threw 8 INTs in those games where he was under constant duress, frustrated with teammates, and was trying to force something to happen. Most QBs throw INTs in bunches like this though with Peyton Manning having 18 3+ INT games in his career. With better protection and offensive schemes, Tannehill should be able to cut that number down significantly as well.

Let's all just hope Benton and Lazor, 2 of our better off-season acquisitions, get the most out of the Dolphins offense this season...

And what this AMAZINGLY TOP-SHELF smackdown doesn't even take into account is the horrid level of playmaking ability at skill positions.

Miami's OL last year was abysmal. But compare Miami's "playmakers" to other comparable QBs.

Not. Even. Close.

This year: Marginally better because of Wallace being used correctly. And the pickup of Moreno.

But only marginal.

Cause Landry is essentially Gibson 2.0. Trade off.

Hartline is still Hartline. Mr. Mediocrity at Number 2.

And Clay is still Clay.

Miami fixed the dumpster fire OL but is still over-stacked w. possession WRs, mediocre RBs and TEs.

LD

 

[truedolfan57]

And what this AMAZINGLY TOP-SHELF smackdown doesn't even take into account is the horrid level of playmaking ability at skill positions.

Miami's OL last year was abysmal. But compare Miami's "playmakers" to other comparable QBs.

Not. Even. Close.

This year: Marginally better because of Wallace being used correctly. And the pickup of Moreno.

But only marginal.

Cause Landry is essentially Gibson 2.0. Trade off.

Hartline is still Hartline. Mr. Mediocrity at Number 2.

And Clay is still Clay.

Miami fixed the dumpster fire OL but is still over-stacked w. possession WRs, mediocre RBs and TEs.

LD

New OC won't make any difference, I guess.

 

[LDaniel7]

New OC won't make any difference, I guess.

That remains to be seen. I fully expect the first part of the season to be a struggle.

First five games we'll be lucky to go 2-3. Some major recalibration going on in everyone's mind.

Now, if they can "Get it" by the last half of the season, then yes, OC will make a difference.

LD

 

[truedolfan57]

That remains to be seen. I fully expect the first part of the season to be a struggle.

First five games we'll be lucky to go 2-3. Some major recalibration going on in everyone's mind.

Now, if they can "Get it" by the last half of the season, then yes, OC will make a difference.

LD

I think it's a bit early to say they will struggle, or succeed in the first half of the season. Haven't even put on pads yet...

 

[fishfanmiami]

If you break the sacks down into categories of short sacks, normal sacks, and long sacks - then yes, Tannehill is at fault, or shares a large part of the blame, in the later 2 categories. But short sacks? That's not necessarily the case.

In the later part of last season, the league wide average percentages across those three categories were:
Short Sacks -- 34.6%
Normal Sacks -- 32.3%
Long Sacks -- 33.2%


Tannehill's percentages:
Short Sacks -- 53.7%
Normal Sacks -- 37.5%
Long Sacks -- 9.4%

Tannehill was sacked almost 20% more than the league average on short sacks. Often before he completed his drop defenders were around the tackles, and Dolphins linemen were often beaten off the snap a very high number of times. But also looking at the stats, Tannehill did an excellent job of not taking long sacks where he excels when either scrambling or moving outside the pocket.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sack-breakdowns



Football outsiders also separated the sacks out into blown blocks, confusion, and coverage sacks. Not surprisingly, the Dolphins were the team with the most blown blocks at 35.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sacks-confusion

While Tannehill still has things he needs to work on (decision making, patience, footwork, and trusting receivers), you cannot put the amount of sacks he took last season solely on him. There is a reason we replaced four fifth's of the Oline and spent our 1st round draft pick on a right tackle - as well as brought in Knowshon Moreno, who is a very good blocking and pass catching back.

Tannehill also does not hold onto the ball longer than other QBs. Only 6 QBs out of 26 got the football out of their hands faster than Tannehill did in the 2013 season. Tannehill spent 2.5 seconds or less in the pocket on 64.9% percent of his dropbacks, which is the second-highest percentage of such passes in the league. His 4.3 seconds to scramble on average and 3.6 seconds to be sacked on average are both the 6th fastest in the league in those categories. His 2.28 seconds to attempt a pass on average is the 2nd fastest in the league. By contrast, Foles took an average of 2.88 seconds to throw the ball in 2013. He held the ball 2.6 seconds or longer on 61% of his drops - which led the league. Foles made better decisions, but also had a better supporting cast.

A large portion of Tannehill's INT's came in just 3 games - New Orleans, and Buffalo twice. He threw 8 INTs in those games where he was under constant duress, frustrated with teammates, and was trying to force something to happen. Most QBs throw INTs in bunches like this though with Peyton Manning having 18 3+ INT games in his career. With better protection and offensive schemes, Tannehill should be able to cut that number down significantly as well.

Let's all just hope Benton and Lazor, 2 of our better off-season acquisitions, get the most out of the Dolphins offense this season...

Excellent post cuch :up:

You found the stats to back up what most of us saw with our own eyes. Bottom line Tannehill must improve but having a solid O line up front is a necessity for that to happen. Last year more than proved that.

Man we could have used you back when Shouwrong was putting up post after post saying the sacks meant nothing or were mostly Ryan's fault.

 

[Digital]

If you break the sacks down into categories of short sacks, normal sacks, and long sacks - then yes, Tannehill is at fault, or shares a large part of the blame, in the later 2 categories. But short sacks? That's not necessarily the case.

In the later part of last season, the league wide average percentages across those three categories were:
Short Sacks -- 34.6%
Normal Sacks -- 32.3%
Long Sacks -- 33.2%


Tannehill's percentages:
Short Sacks -- 53.7%
Normal Sacks -- 37.5%
Long Sacks -- 9.4%

Tannehill was sacked almost 20% more than the league average on short sacks. Often before he completed his drop defenders were around the tackles, and Dolphins linemen were often beaten off the snap a very high number of times. But also looking at the stats, Tannehill did an excellent job of not taking long sacks where he excels when either scrambling or moving outside the pocket.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sack-breakdowns



Football outsiders also separated the sacks out into blown blocks, confusion, and coverage sacks. Not surprisingly, the Dolphins were the team with the most blown blocks at 35.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sacks-confusion

While Tannehill still has things he needs to work on (decision making, patience, footwork, and trusting receivers), you cannot put the amount of sacks he took last season solely on him. There is a reason we replaced four fifth's of the Oline and spent our 1st round draft pick on a right tackle - as well as brought in Knowshon Moreno, who is a very good blocking and pass catching back.

Tannehill also does not hold onto the ball longer than other QBs. Only 6 QBs out of 26 got the football out of their hands faster than Tannehill did in the 2013 season. Tannehill spent 2.5 seconds or less in the pocket on 64.9% percent of his dropbacks, which is the second-highest percentage of such passes in the league. His 4.3 seconds to scramble on average and 3.6 seconds to be sacked on average are both the 6th fastest in the league in those categories. His 2.28 seconds to attempt a pass on average is the 2nd fastest in the league. By contrast, Foles took an average of 2.88 seconds to throw the ball in 2013. He held the ball 2.6 seconds or longer on 61% of his drops - which led the league. Foles made better decisions, but also had a better supporting cast.

A large portion of Tannehill's INT's came in just 3 games - New Orleans, and Buffalo twice. He threw 8 INTs in those games where he was under constant duress, frustrated with teammates, and was trying to force something to happen. Most QBs throw INTs in bunches like this though with Peyton Manning having 18 3+ INT games in his career. With better protection and offensive schemes, Tannehill should be able to cut that number down significantly as well.

Let's all just hope Benton and Lazor, 2 of our better off-season acquisitions, get the most out of the Dolphins offense this season...

Great post.

Also, we didn't have a TE worth a darn to block or a RB skilled at picking up the blitz. So if they beat our tackles (which they did early and often), they were clean in on Tannehill.

One of my fears this year is that our weak spot shifted to the guards being shakey at pass pro. If we spend all this money and picks and end up trading edge pressure for interior pressure that will drive me bonkers.

Sent from my phone, so please forgive any typos.

 

[cuchulainn]

And what this AMAZINGLY TOP-SHELF smackdown doesn't even take into account is the horrid level of playmaking ability at skill positions.

Miami's OL last year was abysmal. But compare Miami's "playmakers" to other comparable QBs.

Not. Even. Close.

This year: Marginally better because of Wallace being used correctly. And the pickup of Moreno.

But only marginal.

Cause Landry is essentially Gibson 2.0. Trade off.

Hartline is still Hartline. Mr. Mediocrity at Number 2.

And Clay is still Clay.

Miami fixed the dumpster fire OL but is still over-stacked w. possession WRs, mediocre RBs and TEs.

LD

Yes, you're completely right about that IMO... Tannehill passed for 24 touchdowns and ran in 1 for 25 total touchdowns. That gets him within range of the Top 10 QBs, or includes him into the top 12 QBs in the NFL (if you're so inclined ;-) ).

He actually could he have more touchdowns if he had had better touchdown scorers or a true red zone threat, which is why we have entertained Armon Binns and now Stephen Williams at receiver. Expect us to draft a taller receiver next year.

As for our current receiver corp:
Hartline is not a scoring threat. He is a move the chains guy. Wallace is not a touchdown scorer from within the red zone as he lacks size and strength. He is mostly a touchdown guy from distance outside the RZ. Gibson has been a touchdown scorer at times during his career, but he is pretty average and we lost him mid-season. Still, he had great chemistry with Tannehill and provided some nice plays and scores. Clay isn't a Red zone target either and despite his very good season, still tended to be inconsistent at times. Matthews had 1 very good game for us, but was not a scorer either and from the drafting of Landry, he isn't a team favorite.

So, despite having the best receiving group we've had in decades, we still need better receivers. I am hoping that Lazor gets more out of this group and the TE's both this season, including utilizing Egnew in the passing game so that we mimic the way Philly uses it's TEs corp. Philly uses a "move" TE in Ertz, an inline TE in Celek, and an H-back in Casey. The common denominator is that all 3 can be moved around.

Based on camp so far, Egnew seems to be performing Ertz's role, which Sims and Lynch aren't capable of. Ertz & Egnew are of similar size, tangibles, and athleticism. For our purposes, Clay is our Celek, but he and Egnew both have the versatility to do what Casey does.

Tannehill also would have had better stats if Sherman had found ways to create space and allow the receivers to get YAC/RAC and to have utilized the backs in the passing game more. Moreno is also going to present an element we've had missing for a while.

2013 RB passing stats:
Tannehill to RBs - 49 receptions, 330 yds
Brady passing to RBs - 84 receptions, 741 yds
Manning passing to RBs - 92 receptions, 812 yds
Drew Brees passing to RBs - 169 receptions, 1239 yds

I'm expecting (hoping) to see Tannehill to Moreno and Miller in the flats this season picking up another 300-500 yards and 3-5 TDs this season.

 

[NoblePhin]

If you break the sacks down into categories of short sacks, normal sacks, and long sacks - then yes, Tannehill is at fault, or shares a large part of the blame, in the later 2 categories. But short sacks? That's not necessarily the case.

In the later part of last season, the league wide average percentages across those three categories were:
Short Sacks -- 34.6%
Normal Sacks -- 32.3%
Long Sacks -- 33.2%


Tannehill's percentages:
Short Sacks -- 53.7%
Normal Sacks -- 37.5%
Long Sacks -- 9.4%

Tannehill was sacked almost 20% more than the league average on short sacks. Often before he completed his drop defenders were around the tackles, and Dolphins linemen were often beaten off the snap a very high number of times. But also looking at the stats, Tannehill did an excellent job of not taking long sacks where he excels when either scrambling or moving outside the pocket.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sack-breakdowns



Football outsiders also separated the sacks out into blown blocks, confusion, and coverage sacks. Not surprisingly, the Dolphins were the team with the most blown blocks at 35.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2013/under-pressure-sacks-confusion

While Tannehill still has things he needs to work on (decision making, patience, footwork, and trusting receivers), you cannot put the amount of sacks he took last season solely on him. There is a reason we replaced four fifth's of the Oline and spent our 1st round draft pick on a right tackle - as well as brought in Knowshon Moreno, who is a very good blocking and pass catching back.

Tannehill also does not hold onto the ball longer than other QBs. Only 6 QBs out of 26 got the football out of their hands faster than Tannehill did in the 2013 season. Tannehill spent 2.5 seconds or less in the pocket on 64.9% percent of his dropbacks, which is the second-highest percentage of such passes in the league. His 4.3 seconds to scramble on average and 3.6 seconds to be sacked on average are both the 6th fastest in the league in those categories. His 2.28 seconds to attempt a pass on average is the 2nd fastest in the league. By contrast, Foles took an average of 2.88 seconds to throw the ball in 2013. He held the ball 2.6 seconds or longer on 61% of his drops - which led the league. Foles made better decisions, but also had a better supporting cast.

A large portion of Tannehill's INT's came in just 3 games - New Orleans, and Buffalo twice. He threw 8 INTs in those games where he was under constant duress, frustrated with teammates, and was trying to force something to happen. Most QBs throw INTs in bunches like this though with Peyton Manning having 18 3+ INT games in his career. With better protection and offensive schemes, Tannehill should be able to cut that number down significantly as well.

Let's all just hope Benton and Lazor, 2 of our better off-season acquisitions, get the most out of the Dolphins offense this season...

Should message this to gravity when you get the chance lol

 

[cuchulainn]

Should message this to gravity when you get the chance lol

Thanks, but all I really did was compile information from Internet resources and present it in a unified format. lol...

Statistics sites like Football Outsiders, Pro football focus, Bleacher Reports, and writers like Andrew Tornetta, Chris Kouffman, and Erik Frenz really deserve any and all credit. All I did was combine the data from these sources and post it.

 

[NoblePhin]

well, thank you for compiling into a great post like that

 

[LDaniel7]

great post.

Also, we didn't have a te worth a darn to block or a rb skilled at picking up the blitz. So if they beat our tackles (which they did early and often), they were clean in on tannehill.

One of my fears this year is that our weak spot shifted to the guards being shakey at pass pro. If we spend all this money and picks and end up trading edge pressure for interior pressure that will drive me bonkers.

Sent from my phone, so please forgive any typos.

+1

ld

 

[finomenal]

We need four things from Tannehill:

1) an accurate deep ball
2) process everything quicker to deliver the ball faster
3) more plays executed that take advantage of Tannehill's athleticism
4) no more "go" or "go-go"

Number 1 is the only thing that concerns me. I don't remember too many quarterbacks who entered the NFL with that issue and became more accurate.

When Tannehill was drafted, many analysts said he was raw and may take 2 to 3 years to develop. We'll see. Keep in mind he only played two years of QB in college. Changing to a new offense might set him back a little, but he'll have to deal with it and diagnose the defense quicker to be successful.

 

[cuchulainn]

We need four things from Tannehill:

1) an accurate deep ball
2) process everything quicker to deliver the ball faster
3) more plays executed that take advantage of Tannehill's athleticism
4) no more "go" or "go-go"

Number 1 is the only thing that concerns me. I don't remember too many quarterbacks who entered the NFL with that issue and became more accurate.

When Tannehill was drafted, many analysts said he was raw and may take 2 to 3 years to develop. We'll see. Keep in mind he only played two years of QB in college. Changing to a new offense might set him back a little, but he'll have to deal with it and diagnose the defense quicker to be successful.

What we're already seeing from Lazor's offense addresses all 4 items. From reports, "Go/go-go" is gone. Lazor has already been cleaning up Tannehill's footwork, and as Lazor mentioned in his press conference, the footwork will dictate when the ball is to come out. A QBs footwork also directs his accuracy. The question of accuracy was one of Tannehill's attributes coming out of college as per scouting reports like this one: http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2012/03/12/why-ryan-tannehill-is-a-first-round-prospect/

As for the other items, Sherman made comments following the 2012 season that Tannehill was making too many of his passes outside the pocket and felt he was abandoning the pocket too soon. As a result, Sherman pretty much tethered him into the pocket in the 2013 season, largely ignoring the fact that Tannehill has outstanding athleticism and accuracy on the run.

Sherman had the best of intentions for developing Tannehill, he and QB Coach Taylor just lacked ability to do so in the framework of today's game. Of course it didn't help that the OLine struggled as much last season as it did to where Tannehill either didn't have a clean pocket to step up into or was having to move laterally to deliver the ball. Tannehill has a great arm, but many of the deeper plays were just poorly designed and timed.

The good signs are that he didn't digress last season, even under enormous adversity and while largely carrying the offense by himself. Get the man some bigger receiving targets ala AJ Green and Alshon Jefferies and watch him really dial it up.