Bill Polian said on SiriusXM radio that Manning could fit Philbin's offense | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Bill Polian said on SiriusXM radio that Manning could fit Philbin's offense

russianbear said:
And yet people are still trying to argue we shouldn't pursue a sub 100% Manning....oye. Sign Manning, draft a development QB, there's your fracking system right there. There would be no learning curve of a season like Rg3, Luck, and Newton had/will have, we'll still have our young guy, and we'll be free to take BPA or even trade down and have a solid draft with no QB woes hanging over our heads.
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Yeah. That makes sense. Let's sign Peyton Manning, who is so broken down right now that the Colts deem him expendable, and by pass signing the young quarterback who is tailor made for Joe Philbin's system that has more of a future in this league that Peyton has remaining. Oh, but that isn't the end of it. Because you are signing Peyton, you have to commit to making moves for the now and not with an eye towards the future. So there goes drafting a quarterback in the first round, as now you need a high level offensive line to protect your damaged, older quarterback. Then, if we have to bring on his buddies to pacify him, that will effectively stop the development of other younger players on this team. Now, you are once again relying on mid to late round quarterbacks to be the answer for down the road, as Petyon has 2, maybe 3 years left in him tops if he does return to health.
 
KB21 said:
Yeah. That makes sense. Let's sign Peyton Manning, who is so broken down right now that the Colts deem him expendable, and by pass signing the young quarterback who is tailor made for Joe Philbin's system that has more of a future in this league that Peyton has remaining. Oh, but that isn't the end of it. Because you are signing Peyton, you have to commit to making moves for the now and not with an eye towards the future. So there goes drafting a quarterback in the first round, as now you need a high level offensive line to protect your damaged, older quarterback. Then, if we have to bring on his buddies to pacify him, that will effectively stop the development of other younger players on this team. Now, you are once again relying on mid to late round quarterbacks to be the answer for down the road, as Petyon has 2, maybe 3 years left in him tops if he does return to health.
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First of all, the Colts are releasing him because they got exposed last year w/o him and have the #1 overall pick and a chance to sign the best QB prospect since.....you guessed it, Peyton Manning. To say he is broken down and expendable is a stretch and a half, it's a money issue, NOT a issue of his talent. They can't afford to keep two big time QB's on their roster with their other glaring needs, that's it, period. If you're talking about Flynn who's tailor made for Philbin's system, yea ok I can twist words too, I think you mean an over-valued, under-experienced, soon to be over-paid QB who has been a backup his entire career. You sound like you've been watching him play for years, and Manning at 70% has a better arm than Flynn ever will.

Second, why does drafting Peyton meaning turning a blind eye to the future? That's ridiculous, one has nothing to do with the other. If anything it helps us by giving us basically a free shot at a potential sleeper late round QB, but you're right, no good QBs EVER come out of the drat later than the first two rounds....:rolleyes:. Not to mention he'll be learning from Peyton effing Manning.

And finally, we need help on our O-line regardless of who are QB is, I personally think Matt the Backup Flynn will need a little more help with protection going through his FIRST season as a starter than Mr. HOFer Peyton Manning because he knows what it's like being under pressure and how to take a hit. Oh and another thing, this surgery he's having? It actually has an end result of strengthening his neck, it won't be "damaged". The only issue is getting his nerve connections stronger which from what I read will come in time. And the point about hindring development of young players by bringing in a future HOF veteran with postseason experience out the ying-yang? I don't think I even need to respond to that.....

edit: sorry if that came out harsh I do wan't to note that I would have faith in Flynn if Philbin can't work out any other sort of deal and signs him. I just speak from having seen only 2 games with him playing, nothing from college. I just can't believe that the potential signing of Manning can be seen as a curse.
 
russianbear said:
First of all, the Colts are releasing him because they got exposed last year w/o him and have the #1 overall pick and a chance to sign the best QB prospect since.....you guessed it, Peyton Manning. To say he is broken down and expendable is a stretch and a half, it's a money issue, NOT a issue of his talent. They can't afford to keep two big time QB's on their roster with their other glaring needs, that's it, period. If you're talking about Flynn who's tailor made for Philbin's system, yea ok I can twist words too, I think you mean an over-valued, under-experienced, soon to be over-paid QB who has been a backup his entire career. You sound like you've been watching him play for years, and Manning at 70% has a better arm than Flynn ever will.

Second, why does drafting Peyton meaning turning a blind eye to the future? That's ridiculous, one has nothing to do with the other. If anything it helps us by giving us basically a free shot at a potential sleeper late round QB, but you're right, no good QBs EVER come out of the drat later than the first two rounds....:rolleyes:. Not to mention he'll be learning from Peyton effing Manning.

And finally, we need help on our O-line regardless of who are QB is, I personally think Matt the Backup Flynn will need a little more help with protection going through his FIRST season as a starter than Mr. HOFer Peyton Manning because he knows what it's like being under pressure and how to take a hit. Oh and another thing, this surgery he's having? It actually has an end result of strengthening his neck, it won't be "damaged". The only issue is getting his nerve connections stronger which from what I read will come in time. And the point about hindring development of young players by bringing in a future HOF veteran with postseason experience out the ying-yang? I don't think I even need to respond to that.....

edit: sorry if that came out harsh I do wan't to note that I would have faith in Flynn if Philbin can't work out any other sort of deal and signs him. I just speak from having seen only 2 games with him playing, nothing from college. I just can't believe that the potential signing of Manning can be seen as a curse.
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First of all, whoever has told you that these surgical procedures only strengthen Peyton's neck is lying to you. Right now, Peyton has a bone graft in between his C6 and C7 vertebra. Do you know what comes along with that? A loss of motion at that level, because you now have something rigid this is occupying that space instead of the soft, cushion that was there that previously acted as a shock absorber of sorts and was elastic, not rigid. Do you know what this loss of motion in turn does? It changes the spinal mechanics at that level, creating more stress on the vertebra above and below the fused area. Do you know what happens with that increased stress? You ultimately get more bulging of the discs at those levels. You also get uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation, both of which is a chronic, degenerative condition. You know what comes with uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation? You get neuroforaminal stenosis, which if great enough, impinges on the nerve. You know what happens then? The same thing that Peyton has already been through. It's only a matter of time. He WILL have this surgery again at the level above or below.

That doesn't even address the fact that he may have let the impingement go on too long before he had the fusion to begin with, and because of that, the nerve may never wake up. It is possible to recruit enough strength from the other muscles to offset the loss of function of the area the C7 nerve innervates within the triceps, serratus anterior, latissmus dorsi, and biceps brachialis muscle that he will be able to throw, but he will not be able to throw with any indurance.

Basically, think of Dan Marino in 1999. That is what Miami will get with Peyton Manning coming off this injury.
 
KB21 said:
First of all, whoever has told you that these surgical procedures only strengthen Peyton's neck is lying to you. Right now, Peyton has a bone graft in between his C6 and C7 vertebra. Do you know what comes along with that? A loss of motion at that level, because you now have something rigid this is occupying that space instead of the soft, cushion that was there that previously acted as a shock absorber of sorts and was elastic, not rigid. Do you know what this loss of motion in turn does? It changes the spinal mechanics at that level, creating more stress on the vertebra above and below the fused area. Do you know what happens with that increased stress? You ultimately get more bulging of the discs at those levels. You also get uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation, both of which is a chronic, degenerative condition. You know what comes with uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation? You get neuroforaminal stenosis, which if great enough, impinges on the nerve. You know what happens then? The same thing that Peyton has already been through. It's only a matter of time. He WILL have this surgery again at the level above or below.

That doesn't even address the fact that he may have let the impingement go on too long before he had the fusion to begin with, and because of that, the nerve may never wake up. It is possible to recruit enough strength from the other muscles to offset the loss of function of the area the C7 nerve innervates within the triceps, serratus anterior, latissmus dorsi, and biceps brachialis muscle that he will be able to throw, but he will not be able to throw with any indurance.

Basically, think of Dan Marino in 1999. That is what Miami will get with Peyton Manning coming off this injury.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
 
KB21 said:
First of all, whoever has told you that these surgical procedures only strengthen Peyton's neck is lying to you. Right now, Peyton has a bone graft in between his C6 and C7 vertebra. Do you know what comes along with that? A loss of motion at that level, because you now have something rigid this is occupying that space instead of the soft, cushion that was there that previously acted as a shock absorber of sorts and was elastic, not rigid. Do you know what this loss of motion in turn does? It changes the spinal mechanics at that level, creating more stress on the vertebra above and below the fused area. Do you know what happens with that increased stress? You ultimately get more bulging of the discs at those levels. You also get uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation, both of which is a chronic, degenerative condition. You know what comes with uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation? You get neuroforaminal stenosis, which if great enough, impinges on the nerve. You know what happens then? The same thing that Peyton has already been through. It's only a matter of time. He WILL have this surgery again at the level above or below.

That doesn't even address the fact that he may have let the impingement go on too long before he had the fusion to begin with, and because of that, the nerve may never wake up. It is possible to recruit enough strength from the other muscles to offset the loss of function of the area the C7 nerve innervates within the triceps, serratus anterior, latissmus dorsi, and biceps brachialis muscle that he will be able to throw, but he will not be able to throw with any indurance.

Basically, think of Dan Marino in 1999. That is what Miami will get with Peyton Manning coming off this injury.
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Hey KB,

Since you are in Dr mode, is Peyton's injury a result of trauma ie a hit or repetitive use? I keep hearing some people say he is one hit from being done and others that say if the nerve is healed then an impact wouldn't effect him.
 
jd13 said:
A dolphin fan just called up and asked Polian if Manning could fit in Philbin's offense and he said without question. He said he has no inside info but just studying philbin's offense in Green Bay and Mike Sherman's offense at Texas a&m. He said it would take him about 2 weeks to learn the offense. The only thing he can't do that Rogers could do are the bootlegs. It just dispels the notion that Manning doesn't fit the system.
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Bootlegs are a pretty big part of the WCO especially near the goal line. Sure opens things up for Rodgers...wouldn't be a killer though, I don't think Schaub runs nearly as many bootlegs as Rodgers does in the same offense. I think they move Rodgers out of the pocket so much cause his O-line sucks where Schaub has a better line in front of him.
 
VManis said:
Hey KB,

Since you are in Dr mode, is Peyton's injury a result of trauma ie a hit or repetitive use? I keep hearing some people say he is one hit from being done and others that say if the nerve is healed then an impact wouldn't effect him.
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His problem is more repetitive use. There is always a chance the bone graft will dislodge with a whiplash type of injury, but if it is fused, that is farily unlikely. If he has a plate and metal screws, those can break.
 
crossfit93 said:
Peyton fits in every offense. Peyton = his own system.
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Absolutely true. He has had 3 head coaches and their offense has never changed. I cant even name one of his coordinators. Its clearly his system and we would be stupid to change it..
 
fact is that sherman and Philbin run a timing based offense with alot of no huddle that creates holes in the defense with match up problems. um, sounds like a peyton manning offense..
 
I just hope we get a chance at Manning. Thats all im asking for. The more i hear it almost sounds like Manning is gonna stay with Colts....
 
KB21 said:
First of all, whoever has told you that these surgical procedures only strengthen Peyton's neck is lying to you. Right now, Peyton has a bone graft in between his C6 and C7 vertebra. Do you know what comes along with that? A loss of motion at that level, because you now have something rigid this is occupying that space instead of the soft, cushion that was there that previously acted as a shock absorber of sorts and was elastic, not rigid. Do you know what this loss of motion in turn does? It changes the spinal mechanics at that level, creating more stress on the vertebra above and below the fused area. Do you know what happens with that increased stress? You ultimately get more bulging of the discs at those levels. You also get uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation, both of which is a chronic, degenerative condition. You know what comes with uncovertebral hypertrophy and bone spur formation? You get neuroforaminal stenosis, which if great enough, impinges on the nerve. You know what happens then? The same thing that Peyton has already been through. It's only a matter of time. He WILL have this surgery again at the level above or below.

That doesn't even address the fact that he may have let the impingement go on too long before he had the fusion to begin with, and because of that, the nerve may never wake up. It is possible to recruit enough strength from the other muscles to offset the loss of function of the area the C7 nerve innervates within the triceps, serratus anterior, latissmus dorsi, and biceps brachialis muscle that he will be able to throw, but he will not be able to throw with any indurance.

Basically, think of Dan Marino in 1999. That is what Miami will get with Peyton Manning coming off this injury.
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Interesting...never heard such a detailed description of his surgery and the effects. Assuming that the nerve is eventually going to 'wake up', how long would an appropriate estimate be of how long he will be able to perform until the increased stress requires another surgery? Are you insinuating that sometime within his next 3 years of play he will need another surgery while on the roster? That being the case I can't imagine how it hasn't been discussed, and how the demand for signing him is still so high.....that would just about remove one year of play from his potential remaining 3 years wouldn't it?
 
i'm confident that manning, philbin and sherman can figure it out..philbin said at his press conference that he's not bringing green bay's playbook to miami..he will build the offense around the players we have...
 
What does "fit" means?

If we assume "fit" implies he could lead his team to wins following the playbook by the word.
Then it's incorrect than Manning could fit in a WCO derivation.
WCO requires a mobile passer, who throws with high accuracy and often blindly. Normally it's used a combination of quick drop, short passes and following the instructions of whoever has the pay-calling duties.
Manning has never been a mobile QB. He's an infield OC, as he loves to change the play on the last instant, according to what he reads on the defensive scheme.

If we understand "fit" as capable to use a playbook to his will.
Then of course he can fit in a WCO derivation. He has been a successful QB within pass-friendly offenses. In fact when Colts won their last SB, he used short passes and quick drops to stretch the field, supported by a good running attack. I could see a little mix of using Philbin's playbook and giving a lot flexibility on the field.

Resuming, Manning isn't a natural fit for a WCO derivation, but he's among the smartest passer of this league, so he could use any playbook and take the best of it.
 
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