BPA- Are We There, And a Hypothetical | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

BPA- Are We There, And a Hypothetical

thank you for lecturing me again with your first sentence. i feel like i am a wiser and better person. that also had nothing to do whatsoever with the question i asked. the notion of going BPA is based on their view of who the BPA is, so it accounts for all the information you cite. the question was not my view or your view of BPA, it is their view of BPA. the question clearly says "their board." i would hope the dolphins have access to their own scouting reports. but thank you.
So if you ask an edgy question with the caveats and you get an answer you don't like, but you get butt hurt because you didn't hear what you want , are you entitled to be a whiny bitch about it ? You have a tendency to be incendiary yet sensitive to the answer you don't really want to hear. You can't have it both ways pal, IMO. Mods can put me out to pasture on this but this is a pattern with this one.
 
Absolutely. Looking at the roster, the two biggest areas of "current" need are probably LG and RG. It's hard to feel overly confident with Wynn and Eichenberg as projected starters. That's pretty bad on paper.

A DT who can rush the passer might be the next need. A few others... a long-term answer at LT, a third wide receiver, a safety, a better receiving tight end, a power running back. I guess that's it! LOL.
What about edge rusher? All we really have is Shaq Barrett. We don't know when Phillips and Chubb will return. They probably will both start the season on the PUP list. So we are likely to be without Phillips for at least the first 6 weeks and Chubb longer than that since he sustained his injury more than a month after Phillips last year.

Who was our starting LG last year? Was it Robert Jones? I really dont remember. I know he will be competing with Eichenberg and Wynn for the LG and RG positions.

I would address the interior OL with one of our first 2 draft picks and defense with the other. Its just a matter of which order. How the draft plays out ahead of us will determine that.

I am hopeful that Eichenberg will be a pleasant surprise at RG although I am not counting on it.
 
Have the Dolphins put themselves in a spot where they can go BPA with their first two picks?

If these kinds of mistakes are your worst mistakes, you will still be pretty good.

To your first point, I think every team pretty much does the same thing. Grier alluded to this when he said, 'everybody pretty much goes BPA in the first two rounds.'

I don't think there's ever any such thing as BPA in the literal sense. There's always context. Teams always have needs. Nobody is ever graded so far above the rest that a team will pick a position they have no interest in. There's always someone there worthy of the pick who fits some sort of need for you.

To your second point, no team ever goes without mistakes. I think Grier has been better than most in R1 but he even he still has Charles Harris and Noah Igbinoghene on his record. Stuff happens. You have to budget for that.

One of the reasons I questioned trading Tunsil for two R1 picks is that I figured there was a good chance one of those picks turned out to be a bust or otherwise replacement-level player. A 50-60% hit rate in R1 is pretty good. You'll never be even close to perfect.

The real hits are the guys from the mid-rounds who produce like All-Pros: Russell Wilson, Travis Kelce, Tyreek Hill, Cooper Cupp, Puka Nakua, etc. You find one or two truly "elite" players in the mid-rounds and you've got something special. This is the area the Dolphins are truly lacking. We've never done anything of note beyond the Top-40.
 
So if you ask an edgy question with the caveats and you get an answer you don't like, but you get butt hurt because you didn't hear what you want , are you entitled to be a whiny bitch about it ? You have a tendency to be incendiary yet sensitive to the answer you don't really want to hear. You can't have it both ways pal, IMO. Mods can put me out to pasture on this but this is a pattern with this one.
your comment neither addresses anything in the OP, or anything addressed to you. i am tempted to respond in kind, but i won't. hopefully the mods take you up on your offer though, it is a good suggestion you made about yourself. thank you!
 
FWIW this blurb on ESPN (full article paywalled) is what prompted me to ask the questions in the OP. I didn't want to lead with the article because I thought it might influence the responses, so I tried to ask the questions a bit more generically. ESPN is stating the Dolphins will take Barton, because of need, but Latu is the better player. No idea if positional value is also part of their calculus (edge more valuable than guard), or if they just believe Latu is straight up better. My guess is probably both, but that is not clear from the ESPN text alone. In their article, for some of the other teams, the player that fills the need is the same player as the one that gets best value. Below the Dolphins blurb is the Seattle blurb, late pick, same guy for both categories. Sadly he probably will not be around for us:

21. Miami Dolphins

Reid's pick that fills a big need: Graham Barton, C/OT, Duke

After losing two starters from the interior offensive line -- Robert Hunt and Connor Williams -- this offseason, Barton would slot in well; he's capable of playing all five positions up front.

Miller's pick that gets best value: Laiatu Latu, EDGE, UCLA

Latu is the cleanest pass-rusher in the draft with pro-ready hands and tools. He's No. 22 on my board, and while medicals will determine his final draft stock, he's a plug-and-play rusher.

16. Seattle Seahawks

Reid's pick that fills a big need: Troy Fautanu, OT/G, Washington

Charles Cross and Abraham Lucas are the clear starters at tackle, but the interior is an issue, especially after Damien Lewis signed in Carolina. Despite being a college left tackle, Fautanu could play inside; he's an agile and aggressive blocker with easy movement skills.

Miller's pick that gets best value: Troy Fautanu, OT/G, Washington

Needs and value are in agreement here. Fautanu would be a great pick in Seattle. He'd also be a really good scheme fit, and I'd plug him in at guard from Day 1.


I would bet good money that if both Fautanu and Verse are available at 16, and they might both be…Seattle goes Verse.
 
When you talk about BPA, there has to be some consideration for your teams needs. Latu has an injury issue, one that may never be seen and one that may cause an early retirement for his health sake. To me, BPA can not be an issue without consideration for your teams needs. Say there's a QB that drops to #21, one of the top 5 (hypothetically), should that be our choice? No. we need other players. BPA means different things to different teams because of roster weaknesses. BPA for some might be a TE or WR in a good class while we may need OL or DL like we do. There are too many variables to generically say BPA...
 
your comment neither addresses anything in the OP, or anything addressed to you. i am tempted to respond in kind, but i won't. hopefully the mods take you up on your offer though, it is a good suggestion you made about yourself. thank you!
Look further in the thread. Not a well thought out position, because BPA means different things to different teams.
 
I think Miami is somewhat in a position to take the BPA. Fortunately, offensive line is a strong suit in this draft and probably the Dolphins weakest position.

That seems like the most obvious pick for Miami. Grier almost always drafts for need.

As to the OP's question, it kind of reminds me of when the Dolphins took Vernon Carey over Vince Wilfork. I really wanted Wilfork and thought he would be the better pick.

At the time, the Dolphins badly needed help on the offensive line. Carey turned out to be a good player for Miami, but Wilfork had the better career.

Personally, I'd take Barton over Latu if that was the choice. Partly due to Latu's injury background.
re latu's injury history, i think we do not consider the notion of availability enough when we make our personnel decisions. our front office likes to describe injuries as purely random events. i do not agree. i think some guys are injury prone, others are not. for example, tyreek hill seems to go full speed, and get the crap kicked out of him, but never any major injuries. other guys like armstead, hurt all the time. we have a roster with a lot of players that were injury prone prior to becoming dolphins. not sure i feel great about latu, especially given our other edge guys also seem to be injury prone.
 
-Have the Dolphins put themselves in a spot where they can go BPA with their first two picks?

I think give or take close enough, need might over-ride something if their board has a guy rated 91 at a higher position of need, and the BPA is a 93 at a lesser position of need, they might go with the 91. But I think they are at the point where if the higher position of need is an 85, and the BPA is 93, they would take the BPA. Net/net after putting themselves in a really bad spot before FA with the cap jam they were in, they have navigated reasonably smartly and I think with purpose so they don't have gaping holes they are forced to fill in the draft. It seems they kind of did have an actual strategy to plug the holes prior to the draft and put themselves in a spot to go BPA.

-Hypothetical question. Using these players only for illustrative purposes only, it could be player A versus B to take the names and positions out of it. If the Dolphins drafted Graham Barton, and he filled a need at guard (low positional value), and turned out to be a good and productive NFL player, but not elite, while skipping over a guy like Laiatu Latu, who turns out to be an elite edge rusher (high positional value), would Barton still turn out to be a good draft pick in retrospect?

I honestly go back and forth on this. Am curious what other people think? Where I am coming out now, before other thoughts, is Barton would still have been an OK pick. Simply, you can do a lot worse, and draft a bust. At least he was pretty good. You will never be perfect all of the time. If these kinds of mistakes are your worst mistakes, you will still be pretty good.

Thoughts on both issues?

PS this is a late edit moving this here, maybe should have included it up front in the original OP:

FWIW this blurb on ESPN (full article paywalled) is what prompted me to ask the questions in the OP. I didn't want to lead with the article because I thought it might influence the responses, so I tried to ask the questions a bit more generically. ESPN is stating the Dolphins will take Barton, because of need, but Latu is the better player. No idea if positional value is also part of their calculus (edge more valuable than guard), or if they just believe Latu is straight up better. My guess is probably both, but that is not clear from the ESPN text alone. In their article, for some of the other teams, the player that fills the need is the same player as the one that gets best value. Below the Dolphins blurb is the Seattle blurb, late pick, same guy for both categories. Sadly he probably will not be around for us:


21. Miami Dolphins

Reid's pick that fills a big need: Graham Barton, C/OT, Duke

After losing two starters from the interior offensive line -- Robert Hunt and Connor Williams -- this offseason, Barton would slot in well; he's capable of playing all five positions up front.

Miller's pick that gets best value: Laiatu Latu, EDGE, UCLA

Latu is the cleanest pass-rusher in the draft with pro-ready hands and tools. He's No. 22 on my board, and while medicals will determine his final draft stock, he's a plug-and-play rusher.


16. Seattle Seahawks

Reid's pick that fills a big need: Troy Fautanu, OT/G, Washington

Charles Cross and Abraham Lucas are the clear starters at tackle, but the interior is an issue, especially after Damien Lewis signed in Carolina. Despite being a college left tackle, Fautanu could play inside; he's an agile and aggressive blocker with easy movement skills.

Miller's pick that gets best value: Troy Fautanu, OT/G, Washington

Needs and value are in agreement here. Fautanu would be a great pick in Seattle. He'd also be a really good scheme fit, and I'd plug him in at guard from Day 1.


Debating biggest team need vs. best value in Round 1: We made two draft picks at all 32 slots


Fill a need? Best player available? We played out both strategies for all 32 first-round slots in the 2024 NFL draft.
We are in a position, due to all the new FA's we have just brought on board, to be successful with taking the BPA for each selection or better yet, the BPA for any position the FO feels is weakest.

We are not going to be desperate at any draft selection position due to our current FA's we've added.
 
re latu's injury history, i think we do not consider the notion of availability enough when we make our personnel decisions. our front office likes to describe injuries as purely random events. i do not agree. i think some guys are injury prone, others are not. for example, tyreek hill seems to go full speed, and get the crap kicked out of him, but never any major injuries. other guys like armstead, hurt all the time. we have a roster with a lot of players that were injury prone prior to becoming dolphins. not sure i feel great about latu, especially given our other edge guys also seem to be injury prone.
Absolutely agree.
 
So if you ask an edgy question with the caveats and you get an answer you don't like, but you get butt hurt because you didn't hear what you want , are you entitled to be a whiny bitch about it ? You have a tendency to be incendiary yet sensitive to the answer you don't really want to hear. You can't have it both ways pal, IMO. Mods can put me out to pasture on this but this is a pattern with this one.

Dude, we handled this like…12 hours ago.
 
BPA that addresses a position of need. I don’t think it is complicated

Now determining who is going to be a stud vs. a bust…..that can be complicated
 
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