BREAKING NEWS: Stan Van Gundy is expected to step down

[R_t_Kraken]

bottom line - i feel better about riley coaching this team than svg - don't really pay much attention to the drama...

Who wouldn't? Van Gundy was a disgrace. The Wannstedt of the HEAT. He had Shaq and Wade which obscured his poor coaching abilities.

Now that Riley is back on the bench maybe we can get back to winning.

 

[finfansince72]

Who wouldn't? Van Gundy was a disgrace. The Wannstedt of the HEAT. He had Shaq and Wade which obscured his poor coaching abilities.

Now that Riley is back on the bench maybe we can get back to winning.

Cmon stuff like this is pure nonsense. Wade got hurt and thats why the Heat didnt make the Finals. Blaming Van Gundy for that or Shaq getting hurt is absurd. This nonsense that he cant coach or hasnt won is idiotic. Now that Shaq is back the Heat will start winning, regardless of who is coach. Im surprised at all the backlash at Van Gundy, the guy is a good coach.

 

[nyjunc]

He was an assistant coach when Paul Westhead was fired in the 1982 season, which gave him his first opportunity. The only place you can argue is that MAYBE he did so in NY, because of Patrick Ewing.

He jumped back into coaching (while fulfilling the role of president) in the 1995/96 season, and had NOTHING. This is what he helped engineer when he got here:

He lucked into that LAL job as that team could have won 4 titles w/ any of us coaching it. He had a great situation in NY having homecourt against Chi in '93 and then w/o Michaal the next 2 years and couldn't take advnatage and win a title. Heck he needed a bad call against Jordan-less Chi to beat them in '94. Then he faxed in his resignation to the Knkicks and hopped on down to Miami to take total control. YES he picked his spot there, no there wasn't much but he knew he had cap room andplenty of money to spend and comically thought he could build around Alonzo HE put the teams that he coached together and HE failed as a coach, His teams were as talented, if not more so, than any Eastern team post-Jordan and he never even made a conf final. All Pat is doing is tranishing his legacy even more, the further away he gets from LA the more peopl realize he had little to do w/ their success.

 

[phunwin]

Well the fact of the matter is that this story stands. In a court of law its always the opposers obligation to prove otherwise. Untill SVG's opposers do so, his story stands. You may not belive it for whatever reason i dont know. BUt we must take his word on it till someone proves this story false.

Wow, thanks for that, Clarence Darrow. Not sure why I bothered with three years of law school when I could have just talked to you.

Of course, since about the only people who buy this are some Heat diehards (and even many of those don't buy it, like my boy 126, who rightly smells The Big Whatever's machinations at work), it sounds to me like the court of public opinion has weighed in.

Let's try to think about this with a non-jaundiced eye, shall we? SVG's been a coach for, what, 30 years? It's at least 20 for sure. The guy knows, and has known for a LONG time that working as a coach entails a lot of ultra-late nights breaking down film, a lot of sleeping on the office couch, a lot of hand-holding and babysitting for multi-millionaires, and a lot of travel. This is NOT news to him. So all of a sudden, in the middle of a disappointing season, with a Hall of Famer chomping at the bit to take over, and his star player sulking behind the scenes, he has a revelation? Even assuming there's some truth to it, isn't the timing pretty damned convenient?

 

[phunwin]

I should add that, whatever the reasoning, there's little question that Riley is an upgrade on SVG. Riley has the credibility to keep this mish-mash of egos in line, which Van Gundy didn't. So I don't question the move itself, I'd just feel a lot better if they'd drop the BS. I'd have felt a lot better if Riley came out and said, "I gave Stan a chance to go somewhere with this team, and the results were disappointing. So we're making a change."

 

[finfansince72]

Riley should have just taken over in the offseason, Im not sure what this whole song and dance was about. Anyone who bought that crap at the press conference please pm me about some quality beachfront property in kentucky I have dirtcheap.
I do think Riley is an upgrade but VanGundy is still a quality coach, who I believe got as much out of the team last year as Riley would have. Wade got hurt, crap like that happens, its not his fault. Shaq cant single handedly carry teams anymore.
I dont know if people watched the Riley teams in New York or if this crap is revisionist or what but he was really good in New York. They played the Bulls to the limit every series they played them. Starks threw up about 30 bricks in a Finals game, and Ewing missed a pointblank layup or the Knicks probaly would have won a title. Things like that happen, the team was just snakebit for some reason. The Knicks were a really, really good team that lost to one of the alltime great teams in the Bulls. No shame in that. Plenty of good teams and players lost out on titles because of Jordan.

 

[Whatsdatson20]

Wow, thanks for that, Clarence Darrow. Not sure why I bothered with three years of law school when I could have just talked to you.

Of course, since about the only people who buy this are some Heat diehards (and even many of those don't buy it, like my boy 126, who rightly smells The Big Whatever's machinations at work), it sounds to me like the court of public opinion has weighed in.

Let's try to think about this with a non-jaundiced eye, shall we? SVG's been a coach for, what, 30 years? It's at least 20 for sure. The guy knows, and has known for a LONG time that working as a coach entails a lot of ultra-late nights breaking down film, a lot of sleeping on the office couch, a lot of hand-holding and babysitting for multi-millionaires, and a lot of travel. This is NOT news to him. So all of a sudden, in the middle of a disappointing season, with a Hall of Famer chomping at the bit to take over, and his star player sulking behind the scenes, he has a revelation? Even assuming there's some truth to it, isn't the timing pretty damned convenient?

Once again, all based on opinion. No one has any proof that Riley was "chomping at the bit" as you put it. I agree that SVG has been making this sacrifice for a long time and its no revelation to him. But keep in my mind that he never once said he just realized it. SVG said that it had always bothered him. Over time it became worse and worse. It wasn't till recently with his daughters b-day that he realized that he needed a change. He has been making the sacrifice for years, and is just plain tired of making that sacrifice. Im not saying every single thing he said was true, but i dont buy that Riles pushed him out in any way. And once again i say, untill YOU or anyone else proves that the story was a crock, then we must just take his word and move along.


-And btw, dont be a jerk about stuff. I responded to you in a mature way. No one cares how much law school you attended. Leave that for another disscussion.

 

[nyjunc]

Once again, all based on opinion. No one has any proof that Riley was "chomping at the bit" as you put it. I agree that SVG has been making this sacrifice for a long time and its no revelation to him. But keep in my mind that he never once said he just realized it. SVG said that it had always bothered him. Over time it became worse and worse. It wasn't till recently with his daughters b-day that he realized that he needed a change. He has been making the sacrifice for years, and is just plain tired of making that sacrifice. Im not saying every single thing he said was true, but i dont buy that Riles pushed him out in any way. And once again i say, untill YOU or anyone else proves that the story was a crock, then we must just take his word and move along.


-And btw, dont be a jerk about stuff. I responded to you in a mature way. No one cares how much law school you attended. Leave that for another disscussion.

The smoke was out there in the summer about Riley taking over so you know he was going to take over at the first sign of trouble and Shaq gets hurt and you struggle then SVG "retires". I just find it amazing that the guy is mostly a career assistant and finally gets hs chance to run an NBA team and does well and has a Championship caliber teama nd he then decides he needs to spend more time w/ his family.

 

[Section126]

He lucked into that LAL job as that team could have won 4 titles w/ any of us coaching it. He had a great situation in NY having homecourt against Chi in '93 and then w/o Michaal the next 2 years and couldn't take advnatage and win a title. Heck he needed a bad call against Jordan-less Chi to beat them in '94. Then he faxed in his resignation to the Knkicks and hopped on down to Miami to take total control. YES he picked his spot there, no there wasn't much but he knew he had cap room andplenty of money to spend and comically thought he could build around Alonzo HE put the teams that he coached together and HE failed as a coach, His teams were as talented, if not more so, than any Eastern team post-Jordan and he never even made a conf final. All Pat is doing is tranishing his legacy even more, the further away he gets from LA the more peopl realize he had little to do w/ their success.

You should look a little closer to Pat Riley's "failures" since his LA days.....

There were some miracle losses that kept him from making another finals or winning a championship.

BTW....if you really look back at those Knick teams.....he really overachieved with them. The Heat teams lost some real heartbreakers to keep them from making an NBA finals....

Yeah...Riley hasn't won without Kareem....Phil Jackson hasn't won without Jordan, Kobe/Shaq. It takes players to win.

Like I said...I would have loved to see San Antonio play 18 out of 21 without Duncan and then have Parker miss 5 games...Bruce Bowen miss 5...etc....I would have loved it.

I wish SVG well.....but I can't begin to tell you how many games SVG would brain fart in. I am telling you...you needed to watch the games...he would do some very strange things....


My favorite was against the Nuggets when Carmelo and Wade were dueling.....Wade comes out with 2:30 left in the third....The Announcer says..."I bet he comes back pretty soon"...we had a 5 point lead when he went out.......We are down 6 when he brings back Wade......WITH 6:39 LEFT in the 4th!!!!!! Come on...that is just stupid and incompetent coaching.

Sitting Wayne SImien and Doleac vs. San Antonio when it was obvious that we needed to use their fouls on Duncan....There are many more to add to SVG's greatest misses.

Somebody said it best....he was "The Wanny" of the NBA.

 

[nyjunc]

There were some miracle losses that kept him from making another finals or winning a championship.

name one miracle loss that kept him from the Finals or a Championship?

BTW....if you really look back at those Knick teams.....he really overachieved with them. The Heat teams lost some real heartbreakers to keep them from making an NBA finals....

Especially in the 2 years w/o Jordan that Knick team was the best in the East and maybe the best in the league and still couldn't win a title yet the Knicks were back in the Finals a few years after Riley left while Riley never came close w/ any of his Heat teams.

Yeah...Riley hasn't won without Kareem....Phil Jackson hasn't won without Jordan, Kobe/Shaq. It takes players to win.

In 1994 w/o Jordan he took a Bulls team to Game 7 against Riley's Knick team that lost in game 7 of the Finals and Chi lost basically b/c of a phantom foul call on Hubert Davis that gave NY Game 5 or else it most likely would have been Bulls in 6.

Riley, like KC Jones w/ Boston in the 80s, was carried to multiple titles. neother one of them won another outside of those dynasty teams and the way Riley is wound so tight he makes his teams play tight this will be a downgrade for you.

 

[phunwin]

Once again, all based on opinion. No one has any proof that Riley was "chomping at the bit" as you put it. I agree that SVG has been making this sacrifice for a long time and its no revelation to him. But keep in my mind that he never once said he just realized it. SVG said that it had always bothered him. Over time it became worse and worse. It wasn't till recently with his daughters b-day that he realized that he needed a change. He has been making the sacrifice for years, and is just plain tired of making that sacrifice. Im not saying every single thing he said was true, but i dont buy that Riles pushed him out in any way. And once again i say, untill YOU or anyone else proves that the story was a crock, then we must just take his word and move along.

Until *I* prove the story was a crock? By your line of thinking, we can take almost anything that anyone says publicly at face value. It would be nice if the world were like that, but it's not.

-And btw, dont be a jerk about stuff. I responded to you in a mature way. No one cares how much law school you attended. Leave that for another disscussion.

I'm not trying to be a jerk; you're applying an entirely different and completely inapplicable standard. The opposer's obligation to prove otherwise? How about the far more applicable standard of common sense, taken with a few grains of skepticism?

In any event, if you want to live in your world, where everything Pat Riley and Stan Van Gundy say publicly can be taken as absolute gospel, go ahead. Who am I to disturb that?

 

[Section126]

name one miracle loss that kept him from the Finals or a Championship?

A few....

Patrick Ewings missed layup in game 7 versus the Pacers in the semi's kept them from the ECF vs. a Magic team that they had played very well against during the regular season.

1999 buzzard beater by Houston to beat the Heat in the deciding game..there was no one in the east at that time and sure enough...the Knicks went to the finals that year...the winner of that series was going to the finals.

In 2000 the Heat loses 83-82 in game 7, in the final 1:32...nobody scored for either team....the officials did manage to call offensive goal tending on ZO when a replay showed he didn't even touch the ball....two shots to win by the Heat went in and out.

Especially in the 2 years w/o Jordan that Knick team was the best in the East and maybe the best in the league and still couldn't win a title yet the Knicks were back in the Finals a few years after Riley left while Riley never came close w/ any of his Heat teams.

In 1993-1994 the Knicks had the #1 seed in the east....THEY made the finals and lost in 7 games. (That was the first year there was no MJ)

In 1994-1995 the Knicks had the #3 seed in the east....they lost to the #2 seed Pacers in the semi's. Ewing missed that layup.

He left that offseason. So without Jordan in the league...he made the finals with the #1 seed in the EC, and he then should have (If Ewing can make a layup) made at least the ECF as a#3 seed.

You were half right.

In 1994 w/o Jordan he took a Bulls team to Game 7 against Riley's Knick team that lost in game 7 of the Finals and Chi lost basically b/c of a phantom foul call on Hubert Davis that gave NY Game 5 or else it most likely would have been Bulls in 6.

Maybe....the Bulls still lost....and GOT KILLED in game 7. But if you want to talk about bad calls...we can go on forever...the 2000 game 7 Heat/Knicks was a total fraud and one of the worst officiated games i have ever seen.....

Riley, like KC Jones w/ Boston in the 80s, was carried to multiple titles. neother one of them won another outside of those dynasty teams and the way Riley is wound so tight he makes his teams play tight this will be a downgrade for you.

Nice wishful thinking.

.

 

[nyjunc]

Patrick Ewings missed layup in game 7 versus the Pacers in the semi's kept them from the ECF vs. a Magic team that they had played very well against during the regular season.

That play, which was not a "miracle" loss like say game 5 of '99, did not cost them a Fianls trip or a Championship.

Very well? The Knicks went 2-3 against orlando, they won the first game by 3 then lost 3 straight(2 of which were in double digits including a 25 pt thrashing) and the Knicks won in a meaningless game on the final day as orlando already had the div and homecourt wrapped up.

1999 buzzard beater by Houston to beat the Heat in the deciding game..there was no one in the east at that time and sure enough...the Knicks went to the finals that year...the winner of that series was going to the finals.

1st rd series, 1 seed vs. 8 seed. yes it was a miracle shot but you never should have been in that position to lose and it was a FIRST ROUND series. Indiana had the same record as Miami, they should have betaen the Knicks as well and definitely could have beaten Miami. Rd 2 was a cupcake w/ Atl but the conf fianls would have been very tough butt hat shot did not definitely cost Riley a Finals appearance or Championship.

In 2000 the Heat loses 83-82 in game 7, in the final 1:32...nobody scored for either team....the officials did manage to call offensive goal tending on ZO when a replay showed he didn't even touch the ball....two shots to win by the Heat went in and out.

Again it was a 2nd rd series, it wasn't miraculous and it didn't cost Riley a Finals appearance or Championship.

In 1993-1994 the Knicks had the #1 seed in the east....THEY made the finals and lost in 7 games. (That was the first year there was no MJ)

B/c of a blown call they got by the Bulls w/o Jordan and they were a more talented team than Houston. Houston had the best player but the Knicks should have beaten Houston.

In 1994-1995 the Knicks had the #3 seed in the east....they lost to the #2 seed Pacers in the semi's. Ewing missed that layup.

They seed based on div titles, the Knicks had the 2nd best record but Indiana got #2 b/c they won their div while NY was in 2nd, NY still ahd homecourt and were the favorites in that series.

He left that offseason. So without Jordan in the league...he made the finals with the #1 seed in the EC, and he then should have (If Ewing can make a layup) made at least the ECF as a#3 seed.

Got lucky vs. Chi, lost a series to Hosuton they should have won and lost to an inferior Indiana team w/ homecourt.

Nice wishful thinking.

We'll see, I think you see Riley and see a Championship but you seem to forget all his post-LAL failures especially w/ Miami. At least he made the Knicks into contenders but he never even did that in Miami.

 

[Section126]

We'll see, I think you see Riley and see a Championship but you seem to forget all his post-LAL failures especially w/ Miami. At least he made the Knicks into contenders but he never even did that in Miami.

He did turn Miami into a contender...he was just unlucky...don't forget the Heat lost yet another deciding game vs. the Knicks with ZO suspended for the deciding game.

As for all the other stuff...we just disagree. I guess you think Phil Jackson sucks too.

I am still waiting to see which coach is the one that wins without great players in the NBA.....

 

[nyjunc]

He did turn Miami into a contender...he was just unlucky...don't forget the Heat lost yet another deciding game vs. the Knicks with ZO suspended for the deciding game.

Miami was never a legitimate contendre under Riley, they made ONE Conf Finals and were won just 1 game and the only reason they made that Conf Finals was b/c half the Knick team was suspended. They never came clsoe to reaching an NBA Finals under Riley. To his credit he built the current group which was a contender last year and should be this year but under him as HC they have never been a legit threat.

As for all the other stuff...we just disagree. I guess you think Phil Jackson sucks too.

No b/c even w/o Jordan in '94 he had his team contending and in '95 w/o Mike most of the year they were good.

I am still waiting to see which coach is the one that wins without great players in the NBA.....

Of course you need great players but there are certain teams that would win no matter who their coach is and LA was one of those teams. They won right before he got there and made a Finals right after he left. Jackson took over a tam that had never won or even reached the Finals. yeah they were ready to win but he got them there and then he tok over an underachieving Laker team and won in his 1st year.