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Browns questioned Tannehill's leadership

keep in mind we are talking about a 5 year differential here in weeden and tannehill...thats like the average nfl career span...think about how much more mature etc you were in a 5 year span b/t 23 and 28...we all know tannehills a little green behind the ears etc but we also know he's a terrific athlete that all indications are possesses a fantastic work ethic seems very well grounded and has terrific physical tools...

doesn't mean the browns were right or the browns were wrong hell we could both be wrong but i like that we for once went all in on the upside play...
 
hooshoops said:
you can't throw the age thing out...you can't...it effected him being on the board in the 20's...cleveland knew where they could get him because of his age...heck many said they would wait til the top of round 2 but there's more risk there...if wdedens 22-23 years old they go about this a different way...and probably pick #4...then again the age may have been the reason people passed in the 1st round this year...

also if weedens 22-23 who knows if he comes across the same way in interviews etc and if his game has the same polish...lots of ifs and maybes
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I know age was indeed a factor, but if you view him as a true franchise QB and the 2nd best QB in the draft you take him when have the first chance to. If you had a chance to trade the 4th overall selection in the draft for Tom Brady(34), Eli Manning(31) or Aaron Rodgers(28), would you? Being that Weeden is older(will be 29 in October) the expectations are that he is more ready to start in the NFL right away, so you are expecting a high level of play right away.
 
hooshoops said:
keep in mind we are talking about a 5 year differential here in weeden and tannehill...thats like the average nfl career span...think about how much more mature etc you were in a 5 year span b/t 23 and 28...we all know tannehills a little green behind the ears etc but we also know he's a terrific athlete that all indications are possesses a fantastic work ethic seems very well grounded and has terrific physical tools...

doesn't mean the browns were right or the browns were wrong hell we could both be wrong but i like that we for once went all in on the upside play...
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all good points. it boils down to this, I'm not sure what cleveland has to gain by talking about another teams quarterback and what they thought about him. maybe its just cleveland? second, tannehill is our shiney new toy, of course we should be proud of him and we're going to be protective of him, its only natural.
 
Nublar7 said:
I know age was indeed a factor, but if you view him as a true franchise QB and the 2nd best QB in the draft you take him when have the first chance to. If you had a chance to trade the 4th overall selection in the draft for Tom Brady(34), Eli Manning(31) or Aaron Rodgers(28), would you? Being that Weeden is older(will be 29 in October) the expectations are that he is more ready to start in the NFL right away, so you are expecting a high level of play right away.
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I don't think weeden's draft situation and tannehill's draft situation is the same thing. of course I agree with the draft him when you can idea, however, there was a huge difference in the window for when you could draft luck, RGIII, Tannehill and weeden. You knew.... abosolutely knew luck was going 1st, and you knew absolutely knew RGIII was going second. if by some idiotic chance Luck wasn't drafted 1st he was going 2nd, rgIII 3rd. Tannehill? he was going top 15. someone was going to draft him in the top 15. No doubt about it in my mind, miami knew that if they didn't get him at 8, he wasn't going to make it past the next 7 spots. Weeden? quite a few people said he was going in the 1st, that value on QBs is just too great for him to slip into the second, but he wasn't going top 15. So... anywhere from 15 through 32nd. but looking at the teams from 15 through 32nd you could easily mark out many of them. So cleveland made a good call by not drafting weeden in the top 5. they knew they could get him later in the day.
 
I had wanted Weeden, and do think he will be successful. However, using that nebulous "leadership" quality as the criterion for disqualifying Tannehill, keep in mind that it's easy to assume that role when you're 10 years older than many of the boys you are "leading." Not saying it won't translate, but regardless, it's a different story when you're tasked with leading grown-up millionaire$.
 
Nublar7 said:
I know age was indeed a factor, but if you view him as a true franchise QB and the 2nd best QB in the draft you take him when have the first chance to. If you had a chance to trade the 4th overall selection in the draft for Tom Brady(34), Eli Manning(31) or Aaron Rodgers(28), would you? Being that Weeden is older(will be 29 in October) the expectations are that he is more ready to start in the NFL right away, so you are expecting a high level of play right away.
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i can see some of that but i look at things from a draft value aspect...always have...and there's no doubt in my mind that many teams around the league saw that age and said no thanks in round 1...so cleveland has an idea of where they can and have to take him going in...gms look at that age and say by the time this guys playin in his second contract assuming he plays at a high enough level to warrant a top end level 2nd contract that he's gonna be 33-34 years old...and do you want to invest a 7 year contract for massive money in a qb who by most indications is trending down??? no they don't...they'd rather take the chance on the young kid and get him if he shows well in his prime all through that 2nd contract...

if weedens 22 -23 years old and you feel again that he's a future franchise qb you have to strike cause there is a whole lot higher probability that someone else is gonna trump you...you have more leeway in waiting and assessing the draft value of a player or a qb in this case this advanced an age...if this wasn't a qb given this age you are probably talking about an undrafted free agent...thats how much the nfl looks at this age thing and puts weight to it...

i don't blame cleveland though...mccoy is not good enough weedens ready to play right now i don't personally see a lot of future upside as a player there but they didn't have to use a top 10 pick on him either...and with the new cba you're not dumping a brinks truck of money in any of these guys so why not despite the age go with the guy you like the most of whats available...late round 1 money is cheap stuff by cba terms
 
BlueFin said:
Ok...if were gonna quibble about a few weeks...Weeden turns 29 the day of the Browns 6th regular season game, they will have 10 remaining with a 29 year old rookie.
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Yes, as I said, he will turn 29 approximately halfway through the season (6 games).

I may be in the minority on not being impressed with Weeden's intelligence...However, I was in the minority on this board before the 2005 draft in wanting Aaron Rogers #2 overall versus drafting Ronnie Brown as well.
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Congratulations. I was part of that minority and I assessed Aaron Rodgers as the #1 player in that Draft.

My real point was the Browns were basing this assessment on "interviews", not "on the field" actions according to the article. I upon listening to both Weeden and Tannehill's different interviews and camp's with Gruden, came away more impressed with Tannehill than Weeden. I came away with no doubt Tannehill can run an NFL offense, whereas Weeden ran a shotgun Spread offense that takes advantage of the great mismatches you find in college football that are much rarer in the NFL.

One would expect a man 5 years older, who has played professional sports to be more polished and perhaps more confident at this point, and that may be true in the short term.
But I honestly am much higher on Tannehill than Weeden.

Time will tell..............................
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Your point was that you listened to Brandon Weeden interviewed and did not come away impressed with his intelligence or leadership. My point was you're in the minority, as per that particular claim. Most come away very impressed.
 
Nublar7 said:
I know age was indeed a factor, but if you view him as a true franchise QB and the 2nd best QB in the draft you take him when have the first chance to. If you had a chance to trade the 4th overall selection in the draft for Tom Brady(34), Eli Manning(31) or Aaron Rodgers(28), would you? Being that Weeden is older(will be 29 in October) the expectations are that he is more ready to start in the NFL right away, so you are expecting a high level of play right away.
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Again, here is a guy that has only played in a shotgun, college spread style offense...if Tannehill has to overcome maturity to be ready, Weeden has to overcome not playing in a pro style offense to be ready.

I think they both have adjustments to make, the difference to me is that Tannehill is a superior athlete, is 5 years younger and will be playing in an offense very similar to the one he ran the last two years in college. Weeden did not and is not a superior athlete, he is a pocket QB in the mold of a Peyton Manning.

It is my belief that the NFL is changing, the scemes and athletic ability of the pass rushers are trending the NFL to more mobil, athletic QUarterbacks.

Tannehill is that type, Weeden is not.
 
hooshoops said:
i don't know that weeden fits what we want do all that well either...forget the age factor looks to me like we want to run a lot of roll outs and move the pocket type stuff and have our qb making a lot of plays outside the traditional pocket and i don't see that as being a strength of weedens game...tannehills pretty damn terrific on the huff and he's got real feel for the pocket and pressure...you can't teach that stuff...
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It's a chicken or egg argument. Are we installing that stuff because of Ryan Tannehill, or is Ryan Tannehill here because we're installing rollouts? Take a look at the Green Bay offense and tell me how many rollout plays you see and whether it's close to the number of rollouts we're led to believe that we will see in Miami.

i don't see much evidence of weeden having backside initial pressure or feeling pressure period in college cause i rarely saw damn pressure...maybe he does but i know tannehill does
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Weeden avoids pressure before it happens, by knowing where the pressure is coming from, making adjustments at the line to the play call and the blocking, and getting the ball to where the defense was weakest. He was a blitz beater. Teams often blitzed him early and then were forced to stop because he was killing them.
 
hooshoops said:
how's that relevant...we took him at #8...of course we would have
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I don't think that's a silly question at all. Jeff Ireland even admitted that what he really wanted to do was trade down before taking Tannehill, but that he couldn't do that because he had some info that another team was specifically set to trade up and take Tannehill if we did that. I think it's a pretty fair question whether Ireland would have taken the same route if we were set to pick at #4 the whole time.
 
Nublar7 said:
Couldn't you say the same thing about Weeden? If they were really sold on Weeden being the 2nd best QB in the draft, why pass him up at #4? Probably because they had a lower grade on him and knew he would be still on the board when they picked later in the 1st round. I know you don't have the answer, and I really wasn't expecting you to, was more of a general question to wonder about. No one other than the Browns know their QB order.
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For the same reason Jeff Ireland busied himself setting up a trade-down for Ryan Tannehill until he got intel that there was a team that may have traded just ahead of us had we tried that. Even if a GM wants a player he takes him around where he's set to go so that he pays the lowest possible price for him.
 
There were a lot more pro elements in Weeden's offense than a lot of people in here realize. Certain people are underestimating the amount of pro-translatable elements were installed in Todd Monken's Oklahoma State offense, while at the same time underestimating the amount college-style offensive techniques and elements have bled into pro offenses. Keep in mind Todd Monken is an NFL coach who had just arrived at Oklahoma State from the Jacksonville Jaguars. He installed a lot of pro elements to the offense.

A "shotgun" offense is no longer a damning word because half of the passing offenses in the NFL are shotgun offenses.
 
ckparrothead said:
For the same reason Jeff Ireland busied himself setting up a trade-down for Ryan Tannehill until he got intel that there was a team that may have traded just ahead of us had we tried that. Even if a GM wants a player he takes him around where he's set to go so that he pays the lowest possible price for him.
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This goes without saying. They liked Weeden a lot but Holmgren himself admitted that they liked Kendall Wright even better at #22. He's a "value investor", he's not going to overdraft a player, and Weeden (while I like him) would have been way overdrafted at #4. It's not as simple as "If you like him then you take him anywhere". If you like him but you know you can get him later, then you take him later, particularly if you're opinion is that you're okay without him anyway.
Like I said, Weeden and Tannehill were both bottom of the first round/high 2nd round guys who were overdrafted IMO.
 
In almost every draft guide and draft nick article that I have read especially as we got closer to the daft had R Tanniel going in the top 10 to 12 and basically to the Phins and Brandon Weeden going in the second round to the Browns. I know all the draft information out there is not totally reliable but regarding the top 35 rated players those draft guides are pretty much in the ball park with where the pick will end up. Ireland and the Browns have to be aware of that information and consider it when making their picks. My opinion both players were taken a little high in this year’s draft because neither team wanted to gamble on their value chart regarding the QB position. As much as I hate to say it if that Texas A&M Dolphin fan on our site says that Tanniel was lacking some leadership qualities then the Browns are probably right if he really is a Dolphins fan. Anyway getting back to the draft articles if you take their rankings we drafted Ryan T dead on and the Browns reached up for their pick. I recently just put together the rankings of all the college players that we signed both the free agents and draft picks and where seven different draft sources had them ranked prior to the draft. Interesting reads as Irelands 2nd and 3rd rounds picks in the past years have not always cut the mustard these rankings basically say our picks in the third round of this year’s draft may have been over drafted.
 
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