Bruce Gradkowski

[Nappy Roots]

I have to disagree with you bud. I noticed last year that the practices were a very valued way of evaluating players, and for some it can mean more than a spot on the draft board (Caddy). It is a great opportunity to show coaches the physical, football skills you have. If they see that you have talent they can coach, it can overshadow a bad game, because these scouts are looking for players that can be molded into their system, not ones who just happen to have a good game during the senior bowl (even though I'm sure that helps).

i never said that it didnt have more to do than 20 plays in a bowl game under a new system either. i dont think you can put to much stock into any of it.

 

[fishypete]

i never said that it didnt have more to do than 20 plays in a bowl game under a new system either. i dont think you can put to much stock into any of it.

I believe everything has it's place....they don't watch them for 4 years or less and then only consider what they do just in practices or even in a bowl game...but they don't discount them either. If you look at the draft sites...the really good ones have what players have done for every year they have played...including High School....scouts do the very same thing. Teams want to know just about everything a player has done...on and off the field.

 

[ckparrothead]

Here's a good quote to show you how important the bowl game practices can be to scouts, players, everyone. Credit goes to Fishypete on this...

Full Wednesday Practice Report
January 19, 2006

Rob Rang
SR Analyst
NFLDraftScout.com

San Antonio - Today's intra-squad scrimmage is the single most critical audition players in the East-West Shrine Game will face this week… and the players know it. How else to explain the handful of fights that broke out, a player bouncing his helmet down in frustration hard enough for it bounce eye-level next to his 6-2" teammate, and for a player to continue practicing after his jersey had been completely ripped off of him?

Ah, "NFL Day" at the Shrine Game; there is simply nothing quite like it...

 

[Nappy Roots]

Here's a good quote to show you how important the bowl game practices can be to scouts, players, everyone. Credit goes to Fishypete on this...

:sidelol:

yup that shows it.

Today's intra-squad scrimmage is the single most critical audition players in the East-West Shrine Game will face this week

 

[BlueFin]

I believe everything has it's place....they don't watch them for 4 years or less and then only consider what they do just in practices or even in a bowl game...but they don't discount them either. If you look at the draft sites...the really good ones have what players have done for every year they have played...including High School....scouts do the very same thing. Teams want to know just about everything a player has done...on and off the field.

Yes, but they are kids, there is this little thing called development, that is linked with experience and maturity, and makes what a kid is now much more important than what he was two years ago, or three years ago, or 4 years ago.

Also, in the case of a Jay Cutler for example, the Senior Bowl gives the scouts and GM's a week of practice and a game to see a talented guy like Cutler surrounded with a team that is equal to the opponents they will face, something a guy like Cutler hasn't had since high school.

 

[BlueFin]

He's really out there impressing the heck out of people at the East-West Shrine practices. He reminds me of a taller version of a guy everyone seemed to love last year, Stefan LeFors.

Not everyone, when did he get drafted again?

 

[BlueFin]

Well, I am sorry to say, but you are wrong. The all-star game practices are far more important than the bowl games themselves. More scouts attend, they pay more attention, and they do more in-depth evaluation. By the time they get to the game itself, they usually already know all they need to know, and they hardly even pay much attention.

It's not JUST a practice if you know that scouts from every team in the national football league are watching your every move. It's far more than that. It is your time to show them what you've got.

I agree with nearly everything you said with one caveat, while the player from a talent standpoint is evaluated during the practices, the intangibles which include, how a player performs when he is actually on stage, and the pressure is on, can only really be measured when he is on stage and under fire.

 

[ckparrothead]

Not everyone, when did he get drafted again?

The 4th round...which is pretty darn good for a shrimpy guy that doesn't even stand at a full 6' tall and doesn't have a killer arm. The NFL generally avoids those guys like the plague.

As for the game itself, if the scouts want to see those kinds of intangibles they have dozens of game tapes they can refer to that are probably better examples than an all-star bowl game. As the article said, most scouts just watch the all-star game itself at home on television, and when they do attend or pay attention closely, it is just to check on or confirm some of the observations they made in the practices.

I agree that there are intangibles you don't necessarily see in a practice, but I have just observed that scouts and personnel people don't particularly care about them that much, as they can easily look for them in the player's game tapes with his college team.

As far as the most important events go leading up to the draft, I would say they are the following, in order of importance: NFL Combine, Wednesday & Thursday Practice Before the Senior Bowl, and "NFL Day" of the East-West Shrine Game (Wednesday before the game). These are the big events leading up to the draft for scouts and personnel men. It's like thanksgiving, christmas, and new years for them.

 

[BlueFin]

The 4th round...which is pretty darn good for a shrimpy guy that doesn't even stand at a full 6' tall and doesn't have a killer arm. The NFL generally avoids those guys like the plague.

As for the game itself, if the scouts want to see those kinds of intangibles they have dozens of game tapes they can refer to that are probably better examples than an all-star bowl game. As the article said, most scouts just watch the all-star game itself at home on television, and when they do attend or pay attention closely, it is just to check on or confirm some of the observations they made in the practices.

I agree that there are intangibles you don't necessarily see in a practice, but I have just observed that scouts and personnel people don't particularly care about them that much, as they can easily look for them in the player's game tapes with his college team.

As far as the most important events go leading up to the draft, I would say they are the following, in order of importance: NFL Combine, Wednesday & Thursday Practice Before the Senior Bowl, and "NFL Day" of the East-West Shrine Game (Wednesday before the game). These are the big events leading up to the draft for scouts and personnel men. It's like thanksgiving, christmas, and new years for them.

Yeah, I just think the game itself(Senior Bowl) can sometimes expose some of the smaller school players and garner them more attention, I've also heard scouts speak of the importance of getting to see some of these smaller school players for the first time in a game against top talent, lets face it, dominating in division 2 is not exactly the same thing as dominating division 1.

In the case of Rivers and Matt Jones last year, the game put an exclamation point on what they thought about their talent. Jones for example, played receiver in an actual game for the first time in the Senior Bowl.

I can also remember instances in the past, Don Shula said John Offerdahl from Western Michigan caught his eye with a tackle he made in the game.

So, I don't think the game is quite as insignificant as you make it sound.

Also, I think the various Pro-Days at the colleges should probably rank pretty high in that list you mentioned, especially in light of the fact that many players don't even perform at the combine anymore.

 

[Nappy Roots]

Lefors measured in at over 6 ft im pretty sure.

 

[ckparrothead]

Yeah, I just think the game itself(Senior Bowl) can sometimes expose some of the smaller school players and garner them more attention, I've also heard scouts speak of the importance of getting to see some of these smaller school players for the first time in a game against top talent, lets face it, dominating in division 2 is not exactly the same thing as dominating division 1.

In the case of Rivers and Matt Jones last year, the game put an exclamation point on what they thought about their talent. Jones for example, played receiver in an actual game for the first time in the Senior Bowl.

I can also remember instances in the past, Don Shula said John Offerdahl from Western Michigan caught his eye with a tackle he made in the game.

So, I don't think the game is quite as insignificant as you make it sound.

Also, I think the various Pro-Days at the colleges should probably rank pretty high in that list you mentioned, especially in light of the fact that many players don't even perform at the combine anymore.

Well I didn't say the game itself is completely insignificant. The scouts and personnel guys may be at home watching it on their TVs but they are still watching it.