Butler Coming To Miami

Ferretsquig

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Mixed feelings about it.... He doesn't exactly make Miami a contender but there is a chance to vault into that status if they get another max guy next off season.

Thrilled to see the last of Whiteside.....sorry to see JRich go.
 

Ferretsquig

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I think Washington would demand a king's ransom for Beal and the Heat just don't have enough. I would like to see Riley figure out how to package some of the depth on this team for a better starting caliber player.....problem is that a lot of this depth he overpaid to such an extent that its difficult to package.

The core of Winslow, Butler, and Adebayo is interesting, especially if Adebayo can add a perimeter game. There are just way too many "others", guys who you're not quite sure you want to see 30+ minutes a game but who have all shown themselves to be quality NBA players. Olynyk, Dragic, JJ, Waiters, Leonard, DJ, and even Anderson if hes in shape. Throw in Herro now who's going to need some court time and Duncan Robinson who looks the part and you have an overabundance of bodies without enough minutes to go around.

The good thing about the core three is that you can add a variety of different players to that group. You could plug in the likes of Kevin Love or Devin Booker and have enough cover defensively, or put Drummond at center and slide everyone over. As long as its not a ball dominant guard they should be able to make a play for most anyone that comes on the market.
 

The Goat

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This was a really interesting trade for both sides; as a Sixers fan, I loved Butler, but he simply caused fit issues alongside Simmons. Both are ball-dominant guards, and it was difficult to get them both going at the same time. J-Rich moves well off the ball, and is a far better option than Reddick on D. The salary freed up allowed then to sign Horford, which makes their D nastier, gives them a true stretch four, and lets Harris move to the 3, where he’s a better shooter.

One of those rare trades that I think allowed both teams to get better.
 

nick1

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Rumors of Wall and Beal. Also of Westbrook
 

The Goat

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I cannot emphasize strongly enough how bad of a fit Butler and Westbrook would be together.
 

Kdawg954

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Terrible move if we trade our foundation of Bam, Winslow and Herro (in addition to Dragic) for Westbrook.

You at minimum have to see this through for a year.
 

Perfect23

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Terrible move if we trade our foundation of Bam, Winslow and Herro (in addition to Dragic) for Westbrook.

You at minimum have to see this through for a year.
Bam and Herro I keep but if Winslow is that main piece for Westbrook I do it. Bring a 3rd team in as well The Lakers could use Dragic at PG bring them in on a trade. This is just me speaking as a NBA 2k GM though.
 

Kdawg954

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Bam and Herro I keep but if Winslow is that main piece for Westbrook I do it. Bring a 3rd team in as well The Lakers could use Dragic at PG bring them in on a trade. This is just me speaking as a NBA 2k GM though.
Oh for sure, if it's Winslow and Dragic . . . And say Dion and KO, I make the move. But with a complete lack of tradeable first round picks, you likely have to give up your young nucleus.

I ain't doing that.
 

Ferretsquig

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This was a really interesting trade for both sides; as a Sixers fan, I loved Butler, but he simply caused fit issues alongside Simmons. Both are ball-dominant guards, and it was difficult to get them both going at the same time. J-Rich moves well off the ball, and is a far better option than Reddick on D. The salary freed up allowed then to sign Horford, which makes their D nastier, gives them a true stretch four, and lets Harris move to the 3, where he’s a better shooter.

One of those rare trades that I think allowed both teams to get better.
At the end of the regular season I was convinced Butler was toxic and not worth the money. After a couple playoff series I was equally convinced Simmons was worthless. Against a good defense in the half court the only ways that team could generate a good look was through Butler or Redick. Embiid is a beast but its just too easy for teams to collapse in the post these days and his turnover rate when he puts the ball on the floor is ridiculous.

It might work but I'm a skeptic at the moment. Horford, Harris, and JRich are all decent shooters but none of them have the gravity effect of Redick which opened so much up for that team. The Simmons/Embiid pairing has never really worked and won't until Simmons has a shot you have to respect. I think they could be a powerhouse on defense but struggle to see how they're going to generate offense when faced with quality defenses that slow the game down in the playoffs.
 

The Goat

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At the end of the regular season I was convinced Butler was toxic and not worth the money. After a couple playoff series I was equally convinced Simmons was worthless. Against a good defense in the half court the only ways that team could generate a good look was through Butler or Redick. Embiid is a beast but its just too easy for teams to collapse in the post these days and his turnover rate when he puts the ball on the floor is ridiculous.

It might work but I'm a skeptic at the moment. Horford, Harris, and JRich are all decent shooters but none of them have the gravity effect of Redick which opened so much up for that team. The Simmons/Embiid pairing has never really worked and won't until Simmons has a shot you have to respect. I think they could be a powerhouse on defense but struggle to see how they're going to generate offense when faced with quality defenses that slow the game down in the playoffs.
That's kinda my point (re: Butler/Simmons) - they simply couldn't work all that well together, because they're both so dependent on the ball being in their hands. If you look at the playoff series, it was rarely BOTH of them scoring/facilitating. It was usually one taking over, and the other disappearing. If you look at the Brooklyn series, that swung back and forth pretty hard.

Regarding the fit? They're going to miss Reddick on offense, but I really believe they're going to work better in the half-court because of Horford. He gets to play the stretch-4, and lets Harris do what he did best in LA; play SF with the ability to spot-up shoot threes. And that doesn't even account for Richardson, who I'm sure you'll attest isn't quite Jimmy Butler, but I'll argue he works better OFF the ball, is at least as good an outside shooter, and is about ten thousand times better on D than JJ Reddick.

Again, teams simply aren't going to be able to collapse as much as they did last year because literally everyone else who is on the floor with Simmons at pretty much any point now is going to be able to shoot. And if they start moving out to contest shots, Simmons is just too fast for big guys, and too big for fast guys.

And if Simmons does develop a 15-foot jumper? Forget about it.

Anyway, we'll see. If they don't make the ECF this year at the very least, someone should be fired.
 

Ferretsquig

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That's kinda my point (re: Butler/Simmons) - they simply couldn't work all that well together, because they're both so dependent on the ball being in their hands. If you look at the playoff series, it was rarely BOTH of them scoring/facilitating. It was usually one taking over, and the other disappearing. If you look at the Brooklyn series, that swung back and forth pretty hard.

Regarding the fit? They're going to miss Reddick on offense, but I really believe they're going to work better in the half-court because of Horford. He gets to play the stretch-4, and lets Harris do what he did best in LA; play SF with the ability to spot-up shoot threes. And that doesn't even account for Richardson, who I'm sure you'll attest isn't quite Jimmy Butler, but I'll argue he works better OFF the ball, is at least as good an outside shooter, and is about ten thousand times better on D than JJ Reddick.

Again, teams simply aren't going to be able to collapse as much as they did last year because literally everyone else who is on the floor with Simmons at pretty much any point now is going to be able to shoot. And if they start moving out to contest shots, Simmons is just too fast for big guys, and too big for fast guys.

And if Simmons does develop a 15-foot jumper? Forget about it.

Anyway, we'll see. If they don't make the ECF this year at the very least, someone should be fired.
I think they'll cruise through the regular season but I still have a hard time seeing that lineup work.

Embiid has emerged as the clear best player on that team and the question remains of what you do with Simmons when the offense is running through the post. Good defenses ignore Simmons on the perimeter and the only way they could get anyone to pay attention to him was to play him like a non-shooting PF.....put him on the baseline and have that threat him grabbing the offensive board or getting the dump off pass for a dunk. That clogs things up for Embiid and you can't help but think he'd be much better off with someone like Ennis on the floor instead who is at least a credible threat from beyond the arc.

In the regular season they can stagger minutes and having Horford who can play center with the second unit is great. I think they'll win a lot of games but I still have a tough time seeing how it works with their two stars. We shall see.....at the very least it will be an entertaining season.
 

Ferretsquig

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Oh for sure, if it's Winslow and Dragic . . . And say Dion and KO, I make the move. But with a complete lack of tradeable first round picks, you likely have to give up your young nucleus.

I ain't doing that.
The only way I'd go for Westbrook is if Spo/Butler both signed off on it and he was available for expiring contracts. His deal is so bad that a year from now the Thunder will have to include picks to get rid of him and I don't think there's much of a market for him. I'd say Waiters, Dragic, and KO for Westbrook and a first is the starting point.

Unless the Knicks are interested I don't think there's any competition for his services. People are too smart to get caught up with the numbers these days. He doesn't play defense and the shooting is horrendous. The only way the back end of that deal hes got isn't a complete disaster is if he commits to playing on both ends of the floor and puts in the work to improve his set shot.

If they offer him for nothing I'd still go for it. If he learned how to play defense he could form a fearsome unit with Butler, Winslow, and Adebayo.
 

The Goat

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Well, ****.

CP3 is actually a much better fit for you guys than Westbrook.

****.
 
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