Camp Report 6/16/03

[ohall]

Originally posted by ckparrothead
I hate when the truth gets obscured because of the taking sides thing. People gotta understand that while it may be a noble sentiment to stick up for Fiedler in the face of the kind of one-sided behavior described by Ult (ie booing Fiedler, cheering Griese) its just as bad to continue the whole taking of sides by taking it upon yourself to harp on the people who take Griese's side.

See what I'm sayin I mean its perfectly noble to want to defend Fiedler in the face of the unfair criticism but when you go ahead and concentrate and/or exaggerate on that whole aspect of it, and then mention that Griese got intercepted without mentioning that Fiedler did, you're becoming part of the problem not part of the solution.

Concentrate on clear evaluations of whats happening on the field. Don't concentrate on taking your stabs at the guys on the other side of the line.

So now you are harping, what's the difference? That's right, you weren't actually there today.

Oliver...

 

[Cranx]

Originally posted by ckparrothead
I hate when the truth gets obscured because of the taking sides thing. People gotta understand that while it may be a noble sentiment to stick up for Fiedler in the face of the kind of one-sided behavior described by Ult (ie booing Fiedler, cheering Griese) its just as bad to continue the whole taking of sides by taking it upon yourself to harp on the people who take Griese's side.

See what I'm sayin I mean its perfectly noble to want to defend Fiedler in the face of the unfair criticism but when you go ahead and concentrate and/or exaggerate on that whole aspect of it, and then mention that Griese got intercepted without mentioning that Fiedler did, you're becoming part of the problem not part of the solution.

Concentrate on clear evaluations of whats happening on the field. Don't concentrate on taking your stabs at the guys on the other side of the line.

You seem to be thumping for one version of the "truth" over another, but what you don't seem to understand here is that "truth," especially when dealing with eye-witness accounts, is a very relative concept. Having dealt with witnesses (taking statements, interviewing, attaining artist renderings, etc) you find that two people are going to look at the exact same thing and one will report something entirely different than the other on 9 out of 10 occasions.

Does this mean that one was wrong and the other right, or that one was lying and the other wasn't? No, it simply means people are looking at things from different perspectives and one individuals truth will be just as valid as the next's and somewhere in between lies the whole picture.

In this case UFF was reporting what he saw in a quick, concise manner and was doing so in a way that simply touched on a couple of the items he observed. Were there other items of note that happened that he didn't report/observe? Of course there were, he's not omniscient. Are there biases to his reporting? Again, of course, he's human and therefore his reporting will reflect his bias. Despite the best efforts of some of the best journalists in the world, human bias is inexorably intertwined with one's writing and, therefore, any reporting/writing should be read with the knowledge and understanding that this exists.

Essentially what I'm saying is good job UFF, you reported what you saw and gave the rest of us an insight into something we, otherwise, would not have had access to. I look forward to more of your camp reports and those of everyone else since the more perspectives we get the better.
:up:

 

[TerryTate]

thanks for the philosophical twist on things :)

Yea being out in Orange county must suck, sicne u got to deal with the niners, raiders, chargers, etc.....im sorry....and u have to go to a bar or order direct TV to see the game....i have to deal with bucs and jags fans....I feel your pain sometimes, cause during the season im in orlando, and they carry jacksonville before they carry miami, so if jax is playing, then i have to go to bar....

heh, we both are in orange county, im in orange county, florida, u are in orange county cali....

thanks for lookin at the pics.....

 

[Coral Reefer]

Originally posted by Prime Time
Jay is the starter...period.

No one is debating that......
If read, the thread was talking about the play of the 2 QB's in today's camp and the reaction of some, a lot, or one drunk guy to a Fiedler int.

The story has gone from fans booing Jay to one guy booing.
Like I said only the fans will be duking it out over this deal.
You'll here comments from supporters of both at practices and games all year.
I don't think the team will be bothered at all however.
They have bigger fish to fry.

I for one am happy that 2, at least avg, starters are on our roster and ready to go if one can't play.

 

[Cranx]

Originally posted by ultimateFINFAN
thanks for the philosophical twist on things :)

Yea being out in Orange county must suck, sicne u got to deal with the niners, raiders, chargers, etc.....im sorry....and u have to go to a bar or order direct TV to see the game....i have to deal with bucs and jags fans....I feel your pain sometimes, cause during the season im in orlando, and they carry jacksonville before they carry miami, so if jax is playing, then i have to go to bar....

heh, we both are in orange county, im in orange county, florida, u are in orange county cali....

thanks for lookin at the pics.....

I really wish I could see my beloved 'Fins up close and personal but, you play the hand you're dealt so to speak and I've been dealt OC, CA. Other than the whole no-'Fins thing, I love it here and likely will never leave.

Dealing with Raider fans, on the other hand, is one of those things nobody should ever have to do. 98% of these morons are nothing but ignorant thugs who shouldn't be allowed to freely walk the streets so it makes viewing games in their presence miserable. The remaining 2% are pretty cool and are very passionate but they're hard to come by out here.

Keep up the good work bro! :D

 

[Dude]

I appreciate you taking your time to write up a report, but people do take it seriously here. You are accepting a responsibility by reporting from camp rather then just doing a favor... I do think it's funny that some people we begging you to report on what you saw and not just take pics last time, and now your getting blasted for it... Fans can be so fickle. :D

I did a few reports for another board a couple of years ago and the admin actually e-malied me and told me that it was 'OK' to fill in the blanks with things that sounded good if I missed anything. He said it was more important to have good reading then to be accurate. That still makes my blood boil! Needless to say I haven't been back there since!

I admit from personal experience it is sometimes very difficult to report objectively. And you want to make it more interesting for everyone and have something observant to say, but the viewers here are more astute and appreciate the honesty, good or bad.

The bottom line for me is, I couldn't make it today and I really appreciate someone else taking their time to inform me. Thanks!

 

[Dude]

I think Expo88 made the best point that 10 different people can all see the same thing and all come away with a different opinions of what happened.

 

[TerryTate]

hey Dude, thanks for picking that up, that i am getting blasted now about reporting my observances....

I just want you to know that my views are not skewed whatsoever....

I'll admit im a fiedler supporter, and the people that are ripping me say that i support fiedler in my writing...ill say it again...neither really impressed me, one wasnt better than the other today, and thats what i observed, , and if i liked fiedler so much i wouldnt have a dozen pics of griese in my picture collection today, i dont take a pen and paper with me and take notes on every single thing that has happened, this isnt a class, i just do this cause i want to inform people, im not trying to persuade anyone....

If you want to know my opinion, you really will know that its an opinion....today iwrote all fact, cause its what i observed....

 

[Samphin]

ultimatefinfan, thanks for the info, and for everyone else who is harping on someone who took the time out of their day to report on camp for our reading and entertainment pleasure, just leave him alone. He doesn't have to get into minute details, he merely reported what he saw. He left out what he felt was irrelevant. He saw only one of Feidler's interceptions, which apparently came off of a tip, not a bad pass so he omitted it. The writer has that right you know. Someone else came on here and said he had two, which could be right but this person only saw one and felt it wasn't worth mentioning.

The Griese one was relevant since everyone wants to know how he did on his first day and since it seemingly came on an errant pass, which leads you to believe that perhaps he is having trouble picking up the offense, play calling, reading the defense or whatever the case.

People are acting like the people that go to these mini-camps need to come back with more details than people covering the war for crying out loud. If you want the actual facts than go to an actual reporter rather than relying on your fellow DOLPHANS. I for one will just enjoy the post from the luckier ones who can actually attend these seminars.

Just get off everyone's back with the irrelevant details and whatnot, please can't we all just get along?!?!?!?!?!?!

Reading and enjoying in sunny California

P.S. Orange County, Californians don't have to deal with the Raiders and Niners nearly as much as me up in the San Francisco Bay Area. Give me your sympathy not them!!!!

 

[Dude]

Let's start some trouble:

The first part of Ozzy's report basically backs up what UFF said about a few people getting on Griese for 'bad' plays. Maybe it's FFiB who either got it wrong or is stacking the deck... hmmmmm

Or maybe you sat 30 yards apart and heard different things... (thats my bet)

Actually, if you went today FFiB, why didn't you write up a report for all of us?? Please do!

 

[inFINSible]

UFF.......thanks for the report......and keep it up.....ANY WAY you want....I appreciate you taking the time to add to our enjoyment of this site, and I would much rather read your reports written the way you like, than to not be able to read them at all.....If your bias shows, so what! Put some sunscreen on it and get back out there....:D

 

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Dude
Let's start some trouble:

The first part of Ozzy's report basically backs up what UFF said about a few people getting on Griese for 'bad' plays. Maybe it's FFiB who either got it wrong or is stacking the deck... hmmmmm

Or maybe you sat 30 yards apart and heard different things... (thats my bet)

Actually, if you went today FFiB, why didn't you write up a report for all of us?? Please do!

Hehe!! I can actually say that FFIB was there, afterall he was sitting with me. lol

I'm not sure but I pointed out one guy to him at the end of the field, and told him the guys been doing it for some time. But today he was with two more. And that's basically it, four guys out of a couple hundred being idiots.

But the guy in front of us was being an idiot too, maybe he missed it!

 

[phins_4_ever]

Originally posted by Dude
Let's start some trouble:

The first part of Ozzy's report basically backs up what UFF said about a few people getting on Griese for 'bad' plays. Maybe it's FFiB who either got it wrong or is stacking the deck... hmmmmm

Or maybe you sat 30 yards apart and heard different things... (thats my bet)

Actually, if you went today FFiB, why didn't you write up a report for all of us?? Please do!

First of, I was there..ask Ozzyyyy...
Secondly I suck in reports....I leave that up to Ozzy. Only time I would write a report is if I know for sure that no Ozzy was there..lmao.
...and finally I heard one guy. he was in the corner with a couple others. Ozzy has been there several times this year so he knows those guys. I don't know if the same guy screamed or his buddies joined in...so sue me.

One thing I know is: the crowd didn't boo - as was implied ("he got booed").

At least I gave an unbiased QB report....should count for something..

 

[P4E]

Reading this thread has been like watching a screening of Roshomon. (Anyone else up for obscure foreign film references?)

I think everyone has a handle on the concerns expressed about how our kind correspondents report. The only thing I'd like to add... is that the more such stuff gets posted, the better our ability to bring reality into focus.

PLEASE... don't be discouraged from reporting due to concerns about getting criticized or challenged. And let's all go easy on the good-faith reporters, unless bad-faith is clearly evident.

I love you guys. And I need my fix.

 

[Capt. Dick]

Some of you people should lighten up imo. Thanks for the report FINFAN.