Can't wait for Spielman to get fired already..........

[St. Nick]

Is Spielman goofy looking? Yes.
Does he make bad trades? Maybe... the jury is still out.
Is he a damn good talent evaluator? YES.

Bad Trades.........MAYBE!? Maybe? Where is our second round Pick this year? Did you like blowing a 4th rounder just to move up one spot to grab a guy who didn't even start for us? :roflmao:

Is he a good damn good evaluator? Look at the above example. Just becuase the guy makes the rooster dosen't do us much good. Most of our starters and Playmakers come from the Jimmy Johnson Era.

The way you guys rationalize his worth just amazes me. We could have finished 0-16 and you still would be making excuses .

News Flash...........Our Team sucks.........second only to the 49ers. :goof:

That might sit well with you...........but those of us that have been Dolphin fans for 30+ yrs aren't used to losing seasons. Speilman couldn't spot Talent on American Idol, let alone the NFL . Better than nothing? Maybe.......I'll give you that much, But its in his best intrest to give AJ another shot and I don't want our season riding on his hopes trying to make himself not look like the moron he is. Come April.........I think the best thing he could do for the Dolphins and us Phin fans.............would be to lend his services to the JETS. :roflmao: :roflmao:

 

[3P]

Bad Trades.........MAYBE!? Maybe? Where is our second round Pick this year? Did you like blowing a 4th rounder just to move up one spot to grab a guy who didn't even start for us? :roflmao:

Is he a good damn good evaluator? Look at the above example. Just becuase the guy makes the rooster dosen't do us much good. Most of our starters and Playmakers come from the Jimmy Johnson Era.

The way you guys rationalize his worth just amazes me. We could have finished 0-16 and you still would be making excuses .

News Flash...........Our Team sucks.........second only to the 49ers. :goof:

That might sit well with you...........but those of us that have been Dolphin fans for 30+ yrs aren't used to losing seasons. Speilman couldn't spot Talent on American Idol, let alone the NFL . Better than nothing? Maybe.......I'll give you that much, But its in his best intrest to give AJ another shot and I don't want our season riding on his hopes trying to make himself not look like the moron he is. Come April.........I think the best thing he could do for the Dolphins and us Phin fans.............would be to lend his services to the JETS. :roflmao: :roflmao:

Our second round pick is occupied by AJ Feeley. I don't care to make this into an AJ Feeley thread, so I'll leave it at this: Feeley was traded for to be another "caretaker" for an offense that would feature Ricky Williams at RB. Even disregarding that fact, one season does not make a bust.

Our 4th rounder went to a worthy cause. Like it or not, Carey was the last viable OT in the 1st round. Had we not traded up, and lost out on him to NE... and thus possibly drafted a DT (keep in mind, we had a healthy Bowens and Chester at the time) how would you have felt?

I honestly feel that if not for a horrible OL coach and a reluctance by Wanny to start a rookie over a veteran, Carey would have been our starter at RT from game 1. Considering that, have a gander at this article: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/6301644

According to that, on average our 4th round pick would have contributed a whopping 1.8 starts to a team that was regarded by everyone as a "win now" team.


At that time, we had Chambers and Boston at WR... awesome combo, no need to draft. We had Ricky Williams at RB, and were a run first team. We had a competition of AJ/Fiedler for a position as a caretaker of a run first offense (also there were no franchise QBs available at our pick). Would I have given up a 4th to secure the #1 need on the entire team? You betcha. Don't let Spielman's lack of clairvoyancy of the season's comming events deter you from seeing that Spielman did his job to make sure our #1 need was filled this draft. At the time we were a few o-line guys away from an explosive offense.

I also realize that a majority of our stars and playmakers are a holdover from the Johnson era. What you need to realize it that this fact actually makes hit HARDER for any players we draft to break into a starting role on the team.

By the way, congratulations on being a 30+ year fan. If I had the supernatural ability to have been a fan prior to my birth, I would have been there right along with you. I trust that you mentioned that in an effort to impress me. You failed miserably.

 

[St. Nick]

I also realize that a majority of our stars and playmakers are a holdover from the Johnson era. What you need to realize it that this fact actually makes hit HARDER for any players we draft to break into a starting role on the team.



Thats a good point I didn't think about. But I'd like just once for his so called Eye for talent to be correct and have him pick 1 playmaker.


By the way, congratulations on being a 30+ year fan. If I had the supernatural ability to have been a fan prior to my birth, I would have been there right along with you. I trust that you mentioned that in an effort to impress me. You failed miserably.


Now your just being a wise ***...........but I don't care how long you have been a Phins fan.........these last 4 yrs were clearly the darkest days ever for the Club.........No way you can tell me R. Speilman isn't a big Part of that just as if we had been successful you would be claiming it was becuase of Ricks Eye for talent.


Don't let Spielman's lack of clairvoyancy of the season's comming events deter you from seeing that Spielman did his job to make sure our #1 need was filled this draft. At the time we were a few o-line guys away from an explosive offense.



How about using his great skills and eye for talent to secure us some Depth as well? Thats how teams like the Pats get into the Superbowl every year........injuries are a given. Anything but our needs were filled in this draft. A few O line guys from an explosive offense!!? Are you kidding me? :roflmao: Any effort you were making to impress me just failed miserably.

 

[St. Nick]

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Firedave..........you are 1 funny MFer.............:roflmao:

 

[3P]

Now your just being a wise ***...........but I don't care how long you have been a Phins fan.........these last 4 yrs were clearly the darkest days ever for the Club.........No way you can tell me R. Speilman isn't a big Part of that just as if we had been successful you would be claiming it was becuase of Ricks Eye for talent.

I agree wholey that these last 4 years were the darkest ever for the franchise. And I WILL tell you that Rick Speilman is not at fault for them. Rick Spielman was clearly overridden on drafting decisions while Wannstedt was GM. These last 4 years are a direct result of Wanny's incompetance when overruling Spielman, loyalty to unworthy veterans, poor gameplanning, very poor position coaching, and the last year there were an inordinant amount of "bad luck" events.

We were an O-Line away from being a Superbowl team. Remember, I'm talking draft day... not start of the season. We had Chambers and Boston... argueably one of the best WR combos. We had Ricky Williams, easily in the top 3 in the league at RB. We had good "caretakers" at the QB position in Fielder and Feeley (remember... this is exactly the role that Feeley played in Philly's playoff run. Not playmaker, but caretaker.) McMike was one of the top 5 TE's in the league. We had superior talent at every position on the O except our O-Line, and QB. The problem last year is that the entire system was developed for a power-control the clock type running back. Wanny was simply unable to change his gameplan to reflect the fact that we no longer had one.

As for drafting depth?

How's about 5 out of 6 draft picks making the roster? That sounds like a good start to me.

How's about our 4th rounder being arguably our 3rd best CB behind the legendary Madison and Surtain?

How about our 7th (that's right our very last pick in the draft) round LB comming in and starting for Zach and producing 28 solo tackles, 11 assists, 2 sacks, a fumble recovery, forced fumble, and a defensive TD?

How about our 6th round center comming in and producing better than the starter?

How about our 5th round LB being a special teams ace, making some really nice blocks?

I'd say thats a fine start at drafting us some depth using our later round picks. Did you honestly expect Spielman to chock the team full of starters and depth using 6 picks?

I'll say it again... Rick Spielman is an excellent judge of talent. That will be his sole responsibility under Saban. He is meticulous, hard working, and organized. I believe he will work very well with Saban, and that you will be shocked and very disapointed when he is retained.

 

[St. Nick]

OK then lets just agree to disagree.

I believe where I and Fire Dave differ from most of you is that you give the last word and most of the blame to Dave Wannastedt. I know just from Daves personality and his nature for being a nice "guy" he would never have stuck to his guns like you say on every pick and instead would have tried to make everyone happy...........including Rick. No way you can Tell me Dave is completely responsible for all the decision making. Did Rick S. make all the poor play calling on the field? Of course not. But he had the most imput come draft day............and he overode Dave this past year..........our worst yet.

You talk about depth? This team was cleary built around Ricky Williams and his style of play. What if he got hurt in Pre season or on opening day? Would have been nice to have another back besides what we were left with. Piss Poor planning on his part.

 

[Dbergan]

OK then lets just agree to disagree.

I believe where I and Fire Dave differ from most of you is that you give the last word and most of the blame to Dave Wannastedt. I know just from Daves personality and his nature for being a nice "guy" he would never have stuck to his guns like you say on every pick and instead would have tried to make everyone happy...........including Rick. No way you can Tell me Dave is completely responsible for all the decision making. Did Rick S. make all the poor play calling on the field? Of course not. But he had the most imput come draft day............and he overode Dave this past year..........our worst yet.

You talk about depth? This team was cleary built around Ricky Williams and his style of play. What if he got hurt in Pre season or on opening day? Would have been nice to have another back besides what we were left with. Piss Poor planning on his part.

My Guess is Speilman stays on...I sure hope so. I actually believe last year was one of our BEST drafts in recent memory, and it was the first year that Rick was 100% accountable.

As I said earlier though, I really dont think it matters much. Saban will now be the final authority for all future personnel issues so if Rick can complement this, fine, else...cya!!

A more interesting question right now is...."how does Saban evaluate talent"? What is this mysterious "system" that he seems to have established for BB in New England? What does he look for? And...."can he teach this to others, including a RS"?

 

[yankeehillbilly]

I agree with your post... but for every Boldin Wanny wanted, there's a Feeley that Spielman wanted....Again... Wanny and Rick are one in the same.

I'm just jumping in because I am amazed that folks still give RS props....

Spielman wanted Boldin. Wanny overruled him and took Moore.

 

[Desslar]

these last 4 yrs were clearly the darkest days ever for the Club..........

Well, the late 80s were pretty grim also.

 

[St. Nick]

Well, the late 80s were pretty grim also.

When you have a QB like #13 in his prime and a coach like Don Shula.......there is always hope. We might have had 1 losing season in the 80's (88 I believe) but I betcha with Dan it was at least exciting. These past few years really sucked...........and when Wayne gave Dave an extention after the year he had...........I ****myself. Sorry but the late 80's can't compare to the nightmare that is Dave and Rick..........:shakeno: :nate:

 

[Dbergan]

When you have a QB like #13 in his prime and a coach like Don Shula.......there is always hope. We might have had 1 losing season in the 80's (88 I believe) but I betcha with Dan it was at least exciting. These past few years really sucked...........

:yeahthat:

 

[inFINSible]

I see pwned people.

 

[3P]

OK then lets just agree to disagree.

I believe where I and Fire Dave differ from most of you is that you give the last word and most of the blame to Dave Wannastedt. I know just from Daves personality and his nature for being a nice "guy" he would never have stuck to his guns like you say on every pick and instead would have tried to make everyone happy...........including Rick. No way you can Tell me Dave is completely responsible for all the decision making. Did Rick S. make all the poor play calling on the field? Of course not. But he had the most imput come draft day............and he overode Dave this past year..........our worst yet.

You talk about depth? This team was cleary built around Ricky Williams and his style of play. What if he got hurt in Pre season or on opening day? Would have been nice to have another back besides what we were left with. Piss Poor planning on his part.

Hey, I can agree to disagree. I don't expect everyone to have the same ideas I do.

Let me ask you this though... since you want to give Spielman credit when Wanny had the final decision, will you do the same when Saban does?

If Saban has a power house draft, I can assure you that it will be percieved as "in spite of Spielman" when for some reason he is being given credit for Dave's draft choices.

If you aren't willing to give him credit for Saban's draft... well then you have only one draft in which he landed 5 of 6 players, using mostly late round picks, and the vast majority of which contributed well above expectations in their rookie seasons.

 

[inFINSible]

Hey, I can agree to disagree. I don't expect everyone to have the same ideas I do.

Let me ask you this though... since you want to give Spielman credit when Wanny had the final decision, will you do the same when Saban does?

If Saban has a power house draft, I can assure you that it will be percieved as "in spite of Spielman" when for some reason he is being given credit for Dave's draft choices.

If you aren't willing to give him credit for Saban's draft... well then you have only one draft in which he landed 5 of 6 players, using mostly late round picks, and the vast majority of which contributed well above expectations in their rookie seasons.

Excellent question....looking forward to seeing the reply....

 

[Shawn-l]

OK then lets just agree to disagree.

I believe where I and Fire Dave differ from most of you is that you give the last word and most of the blame to Dave Wannastedt. I know just from Daves personality and his nature for being a nice "guy" he would never have stuck to his guns like you say on every pick and instead would have tried to make everyone happy...........including Rick. No way you can Tell me Dave is completely responsible for all the decision making.

That's incorrect. Dave not only overrode Rick in the drafts but he also overrode his assistants on the field. I had dug up that info in articles from the Sun Sentinel and the Herald about 2 months ago for some other guy who held the same argument. There is proof that Wanny liked being in control and is for all intents and purposes the "sole" reason this franchise has nose-dived into the ground.

Further proof of that is their record just after Wanny left. It was almost an immediate improvement of the product on the field when Bates took over. How could that be if Dave was the "Aw-shucks" type of guy who let people tell him what to do? The coaches that took over were the same exact assistant coaches that were with him before he left. Think about that.

Rick is not nearly as bad as some of you want to believe. Given our Oline situation going into the last offseason he had no choice but to rebuild. How many of the guys that were released were picked up by another team? None. Todd Wade was a FA and signed with Houston for an over-inflated contract and he didn't even have that great of a year. St Clair was a great pick up to take his place as he didn't cost nearly as much and is a solid player. Granted, McIntosh was a failure but by not being able to participate in the off season and just coming off recovery then thrown in the mix was not fair to him. The "overall" failure was the coaching staff not the talent level.

Tell me this, how many NFL teams were going after Jerry Sullivan? Do you know Clarence Brooks is now employed with Baltimore? Now tell me how many NFL teams are going after Tony Wise? If you don't want to believe some anonymous poster on a message board would you at least consider the evaluation from actual NFL personnel? You guys that bash Rick need to look at the other factors involved.