Did you notice that the blocking was basically the same for everyone...
This little variation is still applying the same basic concept except using a pull step to reach the backer...
Chip Kelly's offense broken down (and what we may see)
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Did you notice that the blocking was basically the same for everyone...
This little variation is still applying the same basic concept except using a pull step to reach the backer...
You are not understanding....that is all part of the scheme, that pull is part of the basic scheme, those variations are on play type NOT THE O-LINE!
So Be
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Some teams do it, others do not. That's a variation. Where did you coach?
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What are you talking about...some teams do it other do not....do what? The playside pull is done by all in ZBS....it is done to gain an advantage in angles...
I coached at the collegiate level for 7 years, High School for about 4, I've worked numerous camps dealing specifically with offensive line at major SEC schools...
So Be
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All of the variations, which all teams do not use.
That is impressive but, why ask for a link to disprove you. Just being kind?
You didn't disprove anything....in fact you just illustrated the point I was making. All those are basic parts of the ZBS...even the pull technique...much of what is used is based on the alignment of the defense and what they are running...
Blackhorse89
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I agree with those saying that the QB movement will not be as profound. Tannehill has some mobility, but I don't know that I would want to put his head out there that much after the beating he took last year with all the sacks.
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ConvenientTruth, this is one of the most interesting posts I have seen in a while. Smartfootball is a great site, I have checked it out before.
Anyway, what do we expect? I think we will in fact see much more outside zone read in particular, from the recent pictures I have seen of Tannehill. He looks to be about 10 pounds heavier at the minimum, and much more muscular. Clearly he was given a weight program and he has the work ethic to come in exactly as they wanted him IMO. it could just be for added durability, but to me, his new body tells me he will be running more. Plus, the best thing he ever did in the passing game in college was rolling out and passing to the sidelines, away from traffic. The thing he struggles with the most IMO is throwing in traffic where he has to anticipate a receiver coming open. He can throw that little 6 yard slant to Wallace because his arm allows him to react and not anticipate at that distance. But intermediate throws are a problem for Tannehill when he needs to anticipate a cut. Seems to hesitate. So...more zone read allows him to be on the move and the threat of running is there either from him or the back, but then he can throw it too while rolling out. That extra threat of running means you can't just gang up on the receiver you think he will toss down the sideline to IMO. Still a pass first idea, but he remains a threat to run and that occupies a defender for a couple of seconds and has maybe another defender or 2 sort of leaning in anticipation of the run. Just makes it easier to throw. Also allows for screens in the passing game which will help him. He will still have to throw to the middle and do some intermediate distances on those horizontal routes he has trouble with, because you cannot avoid the middle completely. But this offense should play to his strengths more, and allow him to minimize the areas where he struggles.
This all comes with one huge caveat. Can our offensive line zone block? Like are they mobile enough? I also wonder about 2 details for Miller. One is when he has to read and react (when the hole does not open as anticipated and he has to find the open spot). He is fast, shifty and can jump cut as well as anyone in the business. But when he has to read and find an unexpected hole, can he do that? If the line can get zone blocking down, Lamar Miller has a chance to be very very good IMO. He will be better suited than even Moreno. Of course he also has to learn to pass block to get on the field as much as we would like, which is the other concern for me.
Those are some of my thoughts on this part of the offense this year. BTW I see you guys discussing how much Tannehill will run. I bet it will be less than RG3 his rookie year for sure. I think the entire NFL learned from that one. But it is something we can do and the fact that Tanny looks so much tougher now in the pics I saw tells me something is definitely up. May even be for more roll out passes where he may take off and run at times when it's there, followed hopefully by a slide!
Sorry if I rambled.
Anyway, what do we expect? I think we will in fact see much more outside zone read in particular, from the recent pictures I have seen of Tannehill. He looks to be about 10 pounds heavier at the minimum, and much more muscular. Clearly he was given a weight program and he has the work ethic to come in exactly as they wanted him IMO. it could just be for added durability, but to me, his new body tells me he will be running more. Plus, the best thing he ever did in the passing game in college was rolling out and passing to the sidelines, away from traffic. The thing he struggles with the most IMO is throwing in traffic where he has to anticipate a receiver coming open. He can throw that little 6 yard slant to Wallace because his arm allows him to react and not anticipate at that distance. But intermediate throws are a problem for Tannehill when he needs to anticipate a cut. Seems to hesitate. So...more zone read allows him to be on the move and the threat of running is there either from him or the back, but then he can throw it too while rolling out. That extra threat of running means you can't just gang up on the receiver you think he will toss down the sideline to IMO. Still a pass first idea, but he remains a threat to run and that occupies a defender for a couple of seconds and has maybe another defender or 2 sort of leaning in anticipation of the run. Just makes it easier to throw. Also allows for screens in the passing game which will help him. He will still have to throw to the middle and do some intermediate distances on those horizontal routes he has trouble with, because you cannot avoid the middle completely. But this offense should play to his strengths more, and allow him to minimize the areas where he struggles.
This all comes with one huge caveat. Can our offensive line zone block? Like are they mobile enough? I also wonder about 2 details for Miller. One is when he has to read and react (when the hole does not open as anticipated and he has to find the open spot). He is fast, shifty and can jump cut as well as anyone in the business. But when he has to read and find an unexpected hole, can he do that? If the line can get zone blocking down, Lamar Miller has a chance to be very very good IMO. He will be better suited than even Moreno. Of course he also has to learn to pass block to get on the field as much as we would like, which is the other concern for me.
Those are some of my thoughts on this part of the offense this year. BTW I see you guys discussing how much Tannehill will run. I bet it will be less than RG3 his rookie year for sure. I think the entire NFL learned from that one. But it is something we can do and the fact that Tanny looks so much tougher now in the pics I saw tells me something is definitely up. May even be for more roll out passes where he may take off and run at times when it's there, followed hopefully by a slide!
Sorry if I rambled.
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KTOWNFINFAN
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Are you really trying to sell that all teams run the ZBS with no variations?? So every NFL team runs it exactly the same?? Of course every OL/OC coach has things they do different, Kubiak for example ran it with many more cut blocks which ended up with with NFL rule changes. But still that was him putting his own variations on the system. That's like saying any two coaches are going to run the West Coast system the same with no variations. That's just silly.
To say all OL coaches are going to run the ZBS the same should mean our OL will be coached the same as it was last year. Turner was a ZBS OL coach and since Benton is too, then why change?? See that doesn't even make sense. Of course every coach is going to bring his own spin to his coaching style. Some are better at it than others but no two are alike.
I'm really looking forward to seeing any of these mysterious "holes" I've heard offenses can implement. The concept sounds really neat and effective, and it's too bad that the Dolphins didn't see fit to try and create some of them sooner.
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I think they hoped to do zone blocking more than they did, but their line was not mobile enough. Actually I think we tried it in the Saints game and it showed how ineffective our guys were at it. Pouncey is mobile enough. Incognito was more of a mauler but can move a bit...but he's not a zone block type. Jerry is not mobile enough. Our guys just could not do that side step (lateral movement) to get over a spot and get that wall of blockers to seal off. Plus, you need to usually pull a guard...sometimes 2 to gain an extra man advantage at the point of attack, which is the whole idea from what I understand. Our guys were more built to push the guy ahead of them...like straight ahead, not get over one spot and then block or seal. That's what I think the problem has been anyway. Jake Long a few years ago was mobile enough, but even he was a power guys first, who just also happened to be a good athlete all around. Then he got hurt. Then he got traded. Then we got even slower.
If we still don't have the line to do it, the holes will not be there. I guess that will make them even more mysterious!
That and Tannehill's ability to protect the ball are the 2 of the biggest things that we should be worrying about IMO. I'm not as much concerned about how often Tannehill hits deep throws to Wallace. Those are nice to have, but more of a luxury in my view. That opens up things underneath, but more spread offense and motions will help open guys up anyway...Tannehill has to get the ball there accurately and on time. On time means he will have to anticipate a guy coming open based on the cut that is about to be made along with how the defender is positioned. I believe that's what very effective QB's do to make those offense hum that we envy so much. Throwing in traffic on time allowing receivers to catch the ball in stride and immediately head up field will give us more yards, first downs and points than the occasional bomb to Wallace I think. If this new offense gets receivers open, but they have to adjust to late throws we will see some INT's and less yards after the catch. Way less I think. If Tannehill is unsure and hesitates, this will happen. He would also check down and throw more short passes if he is afraid to throw to a receiver who is just cutting to come open. I think that these are the things, along with the line's ability to make those zone holes that will decide if this offense gets off the ground. Bombs to Wallace that we are reading about in the press would be icing on the cake, but not as much of a necessity as these other things. That's what I'll be looking for.
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Clamdigger
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Phillymag.com posted a compilation of all of their Eagles' offensive All-22 breakdowns, examining various play concepts.
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2014/06/16/22-resources-chip-kellys-playbook/
http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2014/06/16/22-resources-chip-kellys-playbook/