Chop, Chubb, Phillips

[djphinfan]

Show me a sack, QB pressure, or run stop last year where he beat someone with anything other than pure speed. Show me the same thing while he was at Penn State.

The reality is he was a prospect who could not set the edge, did not turn speed to power and had no secondary pass rush moves. It was absurd athleticism over on field production that made him a 1st round talent.

I have nothing against him, but he needs to improve a lot before he is a reliable 3 down OLB. He is always going to be a good situational pass rusher. If you expect more it will simply take time for him as he was an exceptionally raw prospect.

I could show you dozens and dozens, he’s a very misunderstood player imo very unique play style that affects everything not just pass rush

 

[rent this space]

Show me a sack, QB pressure, or run stop last year where he beat someone with anything other than pure speed. Show me the same thing while he was at Penn State.

The reality is he was a prospect who could not set the edge, did not turn speed to power and had no secondary pass rush moves. It was absurd athleticism over on field production that made him a 1st round talent.

I have nothing against him, but he needs to improve a lot before he is a reliable 3 down OLB. He is always going to be a good situational pass rusher. If you expect more it will simply take time for him as he was an exceptionally raw prospect.

you'll never confuse me with a film guru but this is what I found with a quick search. Also, it's all against the Raiders.
At :30, 5:32 and 6:11 you can see him walking the Right Tackle right into the QB's lap. Not sure if they are official pressures but it affected the QB's throw each time and I don't see speed as the factor.
At 4:41, he engages then drops the Tight End trying to block him, then uses his speed to cause a throw away
Also, he sets the edge at :42, doesn't make they play but affects the RB and allows Holland to get a stop for no gain

 

[phinsforlife]

It's been an MO of Grier for a while now, he drafts really young guys in the first that could be great but will need a couple of years to grow. Even this year, Grant is only 21, he won't be 22 until the end of October, Savaiinaea is 21, 22 in January and Jordan Phillips is only 20 and doesn't turn 21 till next month. They are really young guys who have to go up against "grown ass men" in the trenches. We could have scenario's this year that has Phillips at 26, Chop at 22, Grant at 21 and the other Phillips at 21 all on the field at the same time.

I'm not sure if he does it for job security were he can say to Ross, "look, these are young guys they will need a couple of years to grow" or if he just thinks it's beneficial for the franchise as you should be able to get 2 contracts out of them before they start to slide.

this is what i do not understand. it is not beneficial to the franchise when they are developmental. the biggest benefit to the franchise comes when you get the production from these guys on the rookie contract, when they are NOT getting paid.

think about it this way, the teams that luck into the really good young QB on the rookie deal almost always tend to be very good, and often win super bowls. that is because they are able to load up the roster around the good young QB, because the QB is not being paid, yet, and they have tons of cap space to use. often, once that QB gets paid, the fun ends, and the team is no longer an SB contender, although they still might be pretty good because of the QB.

it is no different with players at other positions, it just doesn't impact things as much as the QB.

anyway from a GMs perspective, the best thing you can do for the franchise is get players that can contribute while being paid rookie salaries. there is also alot more risk to taking developmental players, because you just don't know if they will develop.

my view, the first and 2nd rounders should always be used on guys ready to go now. look at the eagles, that is how they do it.

 

[rent this space]

this is what i do not understand. it is not beneficial to the franchise when they are developmental. the biggest benefit to the franchise comes when you get the production from these guys on the rookie contract, when they are NOT getting paid.

think about it this way, the teams that luck into the really good young QB on the rookie deal almost always tend to be very good, and often win super bowls. that is because they are able to load up the roster around the good young QB, because the QB is not being paid, yet, and they have tons of cap space to use. often, once that QB gets paid, the fun ends, and the team is no longer an SB contender, although they still might be pretty good because of the QB.

it is no different with players at other positions, it just doesn't impact things as much as the QB.

anyway from a GMs perspective, the best thing you can do for the franchise is get players that can contribute while being paid rookie salaries. there is also alot more risk to taking developmental players, because you just don't know if they will develop.

my view, the first and 2nd rounders should always be used on guys ready to go now. look at the eagles, that is how they do it.

considering Chop was a finalist for Defensive Rookie of the Year, I'm pretty sure you will get "production" from him on his rookie deal and I don't think you can rightfully say he is a "developmental" player

 

[stillhardcore]

The 4 man rush of Chop, Chubb, Phillips and Sieler on 3rd on long should be epic.

I don't see Grant leaving the field.

 

[stillhardcore]

Hope Chop continues to get better and stays healthy.

Don’t expect much from Phillips / Chubb but they only need to produce better than Ogbah on other side.

Ogbah is gone.

 

[Springveldt]

I don't see Grant leaving the field.

On 3rd and 10+ when you want to drop 7 into coverage I've no issue with Grant taking a breather if you can get Chubb, Chop, Sieler and Phillips all on the field. That's 4 guys right there that can get you double digit sacks with enough opportunities.

 

[NoblePhin]

Chop had a great end to the year so it's hard not to think he's only going to get better. He's Wake 2.0 and no one ever cared about Wake's edge setting ability in the run game when you have elite pass rush ability.

 

[phinsforlife]

Chop had a great end to the year so it's hard not to think he's only going to get better. He's Wake 2.0 and no one ever cared about Wake's edge setting ability in the run game when you have elite pass rush ability.

wake was actually a pretty good 3 down player, sufficient in the run game. he was not one of those wide of the edge guys. he had alot of bend and other attributes. anyway i am not claiming chop cannot be a 3 down player, i am just saying it is important for him to be a 3 down player and be more than just a situational pass rusher. part of the job is being able to play the run as well.

 

[hoops]

you'll never confuse me with a film guru but this is what I found with a quick search. Also, it's all against the Raiders.
At :30, 5:32 and 6:11 you can see him walking the Right Tackle right into the QB's lap. Not sure if they are official pressures but it affected the QB's throw each time and I don't see speed as the factor.
At 4:41, he engages then drops the Tight End trying to block him, then uses his speed to cause a throw away
Also, he sets the edge at :42, doesn't make they play but affects the RB and allows Holland to get a stop for no gain

It’s explosive but what stands out to me most other than his twitch and explosion here is just how poor that depth right tackles technique is.

 

[hoops]

wake was actually a pretty good 3 down player, sufficient in the run game. he was not one of those wide of the edge guys. he had alot of bend and other attributes. anyway i am not claiming chop cannot be a 3 down player, i am just saying it is important for him to be a 3 down player and be more than just a situational pass rusher. part of the job is being able to play the run as well.

Wake was pretty much always a pure pass rusher. They tried to tell us being the dolphins years ago when he wasn’t playing as a rookie with us that it was because he wasn’t good enough at the poa in the run game and setting the edge. Thus if you will recall he was inactive even early.

Which was hog wash he was the best pure pass rusher on the team from the minute he showed up but he sat behind washed up corpses like Joey porter.

Drove me nuts. Ankle flexion, bend, first step explosion he had it in spades and it was obvious in the preseason against 3s even. And he sat against Peyton manning and the colts that year and Peyton never even got sniffed doubt he even showered after the game.

If I recall I think we lost that game 28-24 cause we kicked one fg even though we possessed the ball for more than 3 quarters of time and Peyton literally got 4 possessions and scored tds on all four.

Talk about misery as a dolphins fan. And staff incompetence from a personnel perspective.

 

[Atila]

Agree with that for the most part.

IDK that the DBs will be as bad as many believe, though Safety looks pretty shaky.

I also don't believe a good pass rush can "fix" a bad secondary in general, but I do think it can mitigate it to an extent. If nothing else, it forces opposing OCs to alter play calling.

What gives you confidence about the DBs? I think part of the lack of confidence in the DBs can be directly tied to our safety group being the worst in the NFL.

The only thing that gives me any confidence is the *hope* the pass rush is good enough to alter the play calls and the DBs are “scrappy” and can be like a bottom 10 unit instead of a bottom 2 unit like I’m expecting out of the safeties.

 

[Feverdream]

Everybody rotates their pass rushers... Hell, every NFL team rotates their entire front 6. You CAN'T have too many pass rushers.

Quibbling over Chop's snap count is just silly.

 

[42March]

this is what i do not understand. it is not beneficial to the franchise when they are developmental. the biggest benefit to the franchise comes when you get the production from these guys on the rookie contract, when they are NOT getting paid.

think about it this way, the teams that luck into the really good young QB on the rookie deal almost always tend to be very good, and often win super bowls. that is because they are able to load up the roster around the good young QB, because the QB is not being paid, yet, and they have tons of cap space to use. often, once that QB gets paid, the fun ends, and the team is no longer an SB contender, although they still might be pretty good because of the QB.

it is no different with players at other positions, it just doesn't impact things as much as the QB.

anyway from a GMs perspective, the best thing you can do for the franchise is get players that can contribute while being paid rookie salaries. there is also alot more risk to taking developmental players, because you just don't know if they will develop.

my view, the first and 2nd rounders should always be used on guys ready to go now. look at the eagles, that is how they do it.

"often win super bowls" I think occasionally maybe a better word.
2019 - Mahomes - Chiefs
2017 - Wentz - Eagles (did not play in SB)
2013 - Wilson - Seahawks
2012 - Flacco - Ravens (he was on his fifth year option)

That's it since 2011 when the Rookie Wage Scale started however certainly since 2018 more rookie deal QBs are reaching the play-offs. So having an experienced QB to win a superbowl seems to be a requirement. - Eli, rookie, rookie, Brady, Payton, Brady, Foles*, Brady, rookie, Brady, Stafford, Mahomes, Mahomes, Hurts.

 

[Pacer]

yup. although verse beyond being older is just sytlistically a different type of football player.
the thing i don't like about the chop pick, is if at this point we are saying he still needs two more years of weight training-well that is the downside of drafting developmental players. even if they are ultimately very good, you do not get that productivity right away. then you also don't get the productivity on their rookie deal either.
with pat paul, who is also in that camp, you don't even know. they are taking a huge risk with him this year. might be good, might stink. nobody knows.
as a general rule of thumb, i like the first and 2nd rounders being used on players theoretically ready to go now.
we did that this year at least....i think and hope!

All the more reason to lock up these young guys at the earliest opportunity. Won't be for a couple years with the 2024 draft class but I'm sure the front office is contemplating those deals as it charts it's cap structure today.