the rules are different in the field of play, from the rules in the endzone!
Chris Chambers TouchDown Catch.
- Thread starter CRAZYDOLFAN305
- Start date
official rules, scoring, sec II article I it is a td when the player catches or recovers a ball on or behind the opponents goal line!
supplemental notes:
(1) the ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on, above, or behind the opponents' goal line.
this was taken from the 200-2001 Official Playing Rules of the NFL, no where does it say the receiver has to come down and maintain possession of the ball. that was something in the refs own mind!
put in key word nfl rules and regulations 2002, it even says less than the book i have, but they both say if the feet are in bounds with possession it is a catch, it says nothing about holding on to the ball!
i want everyone concerned to understand this is not a fight and i'm not pissed at anybody, what i am pissed about is reading something and quoting it, then somebody tells me i'm wrong because they heard something. thats caca del toro!
85inthehall
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i didn't mean to cause any issues - i donated to this site -- dind;t mean to start anything -- sorry
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I want to emphasize something here...
supplemental notes:
(1) the ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on, above, or behind the opponents' goal line.
Because its something that you're not seemingly understanding Dolfan06. The word "possession" in that rule has three requirements which must be met in order to count as "possession"
1. The ball must not be moving in the receivers hands before it touches the ground, if indeed it does touch the ground at any point....this is demonstrating CONTROL (not the same as possession)
AND
2a. Both feet must be in bounds...
OR
2b. The player was pushed out of bounds by another player.
AND
3a. The player must make a football move with the ball in his hands to demonstrate possession
OR
3b. If the player is falling and the ball touches the ground, that control is maintained after the ball has touched the ground.
If you would ask an official, that is the exact process for determining whether or not it was a touchdown. Yes, its true that the minute the WR demonstrates POSSESSION in the end zone, the play is dead and it is a touchdown. However the guidelines of that possession include as I've stated above, 2 feet inbounds, and demonstrating control of the ball before and after the ball hits the ground if indeed it hit the ground. Possession, is not control alone. Possession is two feet in-bounds PLUS control of the ball prior to and after it hits the ground (if indeed it hits the ground). If the ball doesn't hit the ground then its just a matter of having control even after you fall to the ground. If you don't fall to the ground right away its a matter of making a football move.
The referees made the right call. Its just a sh!tty rule. The rules for the endzone should be demonstrating control of the ball plus two feet inbounds.
supplemental notes:
(1) the ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on, above, or behind the opponents' goal line.
Because its something that you're not seemingly understanding Dolfan06. The word "possession" in that rule has three requirements which must be met in order to count as "possession"
1. The ball must not be moving in the receivers hands before it touches the ground, if indeed it does touch the ground at any point....this is demonstrating CONTROL (not the same as possession)
AND
2a. Both feet must be in bounds...
OR
2b. The player was pushed out of bounds by another player.
AND
3a. The player must make a football move with the ball in his hands to demonstrate possession
OR
3b. If the player is falling and the ball touches the ground, that control is maintained after the ball has touched the ground.
If you would ask an official, that is the exact process for determining whether or not it was a touchdown. Yes, its true that the minute the WR demonstrates POSSESSION in the end zone, the play is dead and it is a touchdown. However the guidelines of that possession include as I've stated above, 2 feet inbounds, and demonstrating control of the ball before and after the ball hits the ground if indeed it hit the ground. Possession, is not control alone. Possession is two feet in-bounds PLUS control of the ball prior to and after it hits the ground (if indeed it hits the ground). If the ball doesn't hit the ground then its just a matter of having control even after you fall to the ground. If you don't fall to the ground right away its a matter of making a football move.
The referees made the right call. Its just a sh!tty rule. The rules for the endzone should be demonstrating control of the ball plus two feet inbounds.
no but i read that on the net! now where does it say AFTER the catch with the feet inbounds a player has to maintain possession of the ball! i didn't read anything like that here or in the rule book!
ckparrothead
Premium Member
It states clearly in the rulebook that in order for it to be called possession the receiver must maintain control of the ball before and after the ball hits the ground.
it also states after the reception, with feet inbounds, the ball is dead. if he fumbles it later, who cares, the play is over!
TexPhinPhan
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Hate to say it, but I think that the official got it right. here is what Jerry Seeman has to say in almost an identical situation:
Jamison Bulger, Fostoria OH: When you catch a pass in the end zone how long does the reciver have to have the ball in his possession?
Jerry Seeman: He must possess the ball long enough to be able to perform an act common to the game, i.e., pitch the ball. It is stated in the rule book in three different areas and also our officials are directed, if there is any question relative to possession, a pass is incomplete.
(Dated 10/2000)
http://ww2.nfl.com/fans/rulesschool001020.html
Jamison Bulger, Fostoria OH: When you catch a pass in the end zone how long does the reciver have to have the ball in his possession?
Jerry Seeman: He must possess the ball long enough to be able to perform an act common to the game, i.e., pitch the ball. It is stated in the rule book in three different areas and also our officials are directed, if there is any question relative to possession, a pass is incomplete.
(Dated 10/2000)
http://ww2.nfl.com/fans/rulesschool001020.html
Chauncey
GOD si smailliW ykciR
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I ref/coach hockey & know there's a "casebook" that is what the top level refs i.e. NHL/Major Juniors/International use much like lawyers use case law as a guide for rule interpretation. It's a way of tring to remove subjectivity/ambiguiuty from the day to day decisions that refs need to make, so decisions can be made consistently.
I know what 06 is saying that it is in black & white that (according to the rulebook) if he has possession, then it should be a TD. The issue here is exactly that...possession and I'm assuming that the interpretetion that the ref & the supervisor applied by saying he didn't make a football move & bobbled it as he hit the ground is supported by whatever "casebook" that the NFL refs use.
Can anyone confirm/deny that a "casebook" or similar reference guide exists for NFL refs?
I know what 06 is saying that it is in black & white that (according to the rulebook) if he has possession, then it should be a TD. The issue here is exactly that...possession and I'm assuming that the interpretetion that the ref & the supervisor applied by saying he didn't make a football move & bobbled it as he hit the ground is supported by whatever "casebook" that the NFL refs use.
Can anyone confirm/deny that a "casebook" or similar reference guide exists for NFL refs?