Chris Simms claims Jarrett Stidham is More Talented than Tua

djphinfan

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True, but talented WRs can increase QBs YPA, TDs, and other stats.
Absolutely true, but an evaluation of a Qb should completely stop after the ball touches the hands of the receiver..That’s why I don’t buy anyone trying to sell me the whole he is who he is because of the talent he played with.

When you watch Tua and You study the eye manipulation, the anticipation to throw, the accuracy and ball placement, ball placement that would have Bill Walsh rising from his grave, you don’t care About the talent that is catching the ball or what they do with it when secured..

I will reiterate something that is hard to get folks to understand, and that is, it takes more talent to distribute the ball to highly talented receivers and backs..The Qb must be able to keep up, gauge speed and separation ability and adjust throws relative to that level of talent, a lesser qb would not be able to keep up with the Ferrari’s..now would their stats increase? Sure, but that’s where you have to find the line in the evaluation, and that line is when the ball touches their hands, after that it’s all moot.
 

Digital

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Seems like you would factor in the level of competition, though. Tua played with more talent, he also faced more talented teams.
Also, it doesn't matter how talented a receiver is if you throw the ball in the 3rd row
Very true. But when a QB is throwing to a WR or three who creates 3+ yards separation, it's very easy for most NFL prospects to hit those targets and appear accurate. That was the situation at Alabama, even against elite competition. Alabama had two guys who vied for the #1 WR in the NFL draft this past year to destroy defenses ... and arguably, neither of them was even the best WR on the Alabama team, as the kid coming out next year is probably the best WR of the bunch. Likewise the talent at WR that Burrow had at LSU was phenomenal, and you saw one of his guys get drafted, and probably the best WR in all of college football will be the #1 WR taken in 2021. So, these guys were not just throwing to good talent ... they were throwing to a stable of guys so elite they really didn't have peers on the defensive side of the ball. Burrow gets more credit in large part because when the DB's did cover his WR's, Burrow threw the better tight-window throws and rarely threw the interception.

The OL at LSU is fantastic ... but the OL at Alabama is legendary. They're stacked with top NFL draft picks every year, and if you saw them play you have to admit they flat out dominated their competition and gave Tua unbelievable protection. Burrow had to throw with a lot more pressure and a messy pocket a lot more often.

In the NFL, neither of these two comparative advantages will be available to Tua. We have good WR's but the DB's in the NFL don't allow constant 3+ yards of window into which to throw, so Tua's precision will be tested like it hasn't been tested before. Those balls thrown 1 foot behind the WR that were TD's in college may be INT's in the pros. The chance to sit back and apply a little wiggle to buy time for your guys to get deep ... Tua's not that quick or fast, and the NFL defenses are. He's not going to be able to extend plays like he did at Alabama. And the Miami OL has been atrocious for a decade now, so I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch that this is the year we miraculously become a solid OL.

The situation that Tua is coming into will be the biggest drop in teammate support of any QB entering the NFL in 2020, IMHO.
 

39wildman

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Very true. But when a QB is throwing to a WR or three who creates 3+ yards separation, it's very easy for most NFL prospects to hit those targets and appear accurate. That was the situation at Alabama, even against elite competition. Alabama had two guys who vied for the #1 WR in the NFL draft this past year to destroy defenses ... and arguably, neither of them was even the best WR on the Alabama team, as the kid coming out next year is probably the best WR of the bunch. Likewise the talent at WR that Burrow had at LSU was phenomenal, and you saw one of his guys get drafted, and probably the best WR in all of college football will be the #1 WR taken in 2021. So, these guys were not just throwing to good talent ... they were throwing to a stable of guys so elite they really didn't have peers on the defensive side of the ball. Burrow gets more credit in large part because when the DB's did cover his WR's, Burrow threw the better tight-window throws and rarely threw the interception.

The OL at LSU is fantastic ... but the OL at Alabama is legendary. They're stacked with top NFL draft picks every year, and if you saw them play you have to admit they flat out dominated their competition and gave Tua unbelievable protection. Burrow had to throw with a lot more pressure and a messy pocket a lot more often.

In the NFL, neither of these two comparative advantages will be available to Tua. We have good WR's but the DB's in the NFL don't allow constant 3+ yards of window into which to throw, so Tua's precision will be tested like it hasn't been tested before. Those balls thrown 1 foot behind the WR that were TD's in college may be INT's in the pros. The chance to sit back and apply a little wiggle to buy time for your guys to get deep ... Tua's not that quick or fast, and the NFL defenses are. He's not going to be able to extend plays like he did at Alabama. And the Miami OL has been atrocious for a decade now, so I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch that this is the year we miraculously become a solid OL.

The situation that Tua is coming into will be the biggest drop in teammate support of any QB entering the NFL in 2020, IMHO.
I agree w u.. we got just see what happens from hear on with Tua. Good OL and good RB would help young qb out.. stidham have some thing on his side. Great coach,OC,good OL and good defense...that good situation for young QB. If he is good. I do not think he going be tom brady but he has lot good stuff in place for him to me successful..I am guessing that what Simms is try to say..
 
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djphinfan

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Very true. But when a QB is throwing to a WR or three who creates 3+ yards separation, it's very easy for most NFL prospects to hit those targets and appear accurate. That was the situation at Alabama, even against elite competition. Alabama had two guys who vied for the #1 WR in the NFL draft this past year to destroy defenses ... and arguably, neither of them was even the best WR on the Alabama team, as the kid coming out next year is probably the best WR of the bunch. Likewise the talent at WR that Burrow had at LSU was phenomenal, and you saw one of his guys get drafted, and probably the best WR in all of college football will be the #1 WR taken in 2021. So, these guys were not just throwing to good talent ... they were throwing to a stable of guys so elite they really didn't have peers on the defensive side of the ball. Burrow gets more credit in large part because when the DB's did cover his WR's, Burrow threw the better tight-window throws and rarely threw the interception.

The OL at LSU is fantastic ... but the OL at Alabama is legendary. They're stacked with top NFL draft picks every year, and if you saw them play you have to admit they flat out dominated their competition and gave Tua unbelievable protection. Burrow had to throw with a lot more pressure and a messy pocket a lot more often.

In the NFL, neither of these two comparative advantages will be available to Tua. We have good WR's but the DB's in the NFL don't allow constant 3+ yards of window into which to throw, so Tua's precision will be tested like it hasn't been tested before. Those balls thrown 1 foot behind the WR that were TD's in college may be INT's in the pros. The chance to sit back and apply a little wiggle to buy time for your guys to get deep ... Tua's not that quick or fast, and the NFL defenses are. He's not going to be able to extend plays like he did at Alabama. And the Miami OL has been atrocious for a decade now, so I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch that this is the year we miraculously become a solid OL.

The situation that Tua is coming into will be the biggest drop in teammate support of any QB entering the NFL in 2020, IMHO.
Just because Tua had some open windows where he led his receivers perfectly, do you question he can make accurate throws with a smaller window?
 

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Just because Tua had some open windows where he led his receivers perfectly, do you question he can make accurate throws with a smaller window?
No, not at all. It's the fact that about a third of his throws were a foot off that bothers me. He's very accurate throwing into huge windows with minimal pass rush ... he's proven that. He is accurate ... but not the most precise. Precision is being able to throw the ball with pinpoint accuracy--meaning place the ball inch-perfect into a tight window. That skill is dramatically more important in the NFL because the windows are so much smaller. A little bit off in any direction can often mean an INT.

Peyton Manning tells the story about how when he first arrived at Indianapolis, he wouldn't throw the ball and the coaches got all over him. They said something like 'Hey Peyton, throw the damn ball." Peyton said he didn't see anyone open and his coaches replied, 'In the NFL, that's as open as people get!' and Peyton Manning was shocked with the difference in the throwing window in the NFL. He had some pretty good WR's at Tennessee too, so the contrast for him was stark.

Tua has been operating with a tremendously wide margin for error. By and large he has made errors that are small--only missing his guy by a foot and only doing that about a third of the time. At Alabama, those are considered completed passes with an opportunity to score a TD. But being a foot off when DeVante Parker is the receiver is essentially throwing a 50/50 ball. Parker doesn't create much separation, but he usually wins those 50/50 balls. Most of the time Fitzpatrick puts those balls into a place where either Parker makes that catch, or it's an incomplete pass. But yeah ... when Fitz is off a foot, it can lead to an INT. Tua needs to clean that up, because his lack of precision will be brutally punished by NFL CB's.

By Contrast when throwing to Albert Wilson or Jakeem Grant, there is a lot of open space because their speed and quickness scares DB's. But, they're less likely to win against press coverage to ever get open in the first place, and when they do, they don't have the best hands (particularly Grant). Also, throwing to true elite speed is hard. Tua had Ruggs, but he didn't really throw to him very often. Hopefully though it hepled him become more precise with throws like the ones he'll need to do to get the ball in the hands of Grant and Wilson.
 

rent this space

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Here in Denver they have been showing Jeudy highlights post draft on the local sports shows and I chuckle watching him receive the ball right between the numbers in stride at the perfect time In the route to just run away from defenders. He will miss having that this year, imo
 

djphinfan

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No, not at all. It's the fact that about a third of his throws were a foot off that bothers me. He's very accurate throwing into huge windows with minimal pass rush ... he's proven that. He is accurate ... but not the most precise. Precision is being able to throw the ball with pinpoint accuracy--meaning place the ball inch-perfect into a tight window. That skill is dramatically more important in the NFL because the windows are so much smaller. A little bit off in any direction can often mean an INT.

Peyton Manning tells the story about how when he first arrived at Indianapolis, he wouldn't throw the ball and the coaches got all over him. They said something like 'Hey Peyton, throw the damn ball." Peyton said he didn't see anyone open and his coaches replied, 'In the NFL, that's as open as people get!' and Peyton Manning was shocked with the difference in the throwing window in the NFL. He had some pretty good WR's at Tennessee too, so the contrast for him was stark.

Tua has been operating with a tremendously wide margin for error. By and large he has made errors that are small--only missing his guy by a foot and only doing that about a third of the time. At Alabama, those are considered completed passes with an opportunity to score a TD. But being a foot off when DeVante Parker is the receiver is essentially throwing a 50/50 ball. Parker doesn't create much separation, but he usually wins those 50/50 balls. Most of the time Fitzpatrick puts those balls into a place where either Parker makes that catch, or it's an incomplete pass. But yeah ... when Fitz is off a foot, it can lead to an INT. Tua needs to clean that up, because his lack of precision will be brutally punished by NFL CB's.

By Contrast when throwing to Albert Wilson or Jakeem Grant, there is a lot of open space because their speed and quickness scares DB's. But, they're less likely to win against press coverage to ever get open in the first place, and when they do, they don't have the best hands (particularly Grant). Also, throwing to true elite speed is hard. Tua had Ruggs, but he didn't really throw to him very often. Hopefully though it hepled him become more precise with throws like the ones he'll need to do to get the ball in the hands of Grant and Wilson.
I think when you study qbs you look for innate qualities, innate instincts being one of those qualities, When I looked at all of Tuas reps, I see innate accuracy, this is a player that will always come back to feel, touch, and a natural way of just throwing the football, Which will always allow him to succeed, accuracy is at the very bottom of my short List of worries..he’s innately accurate imo.
 

jimthefin

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Simms has Kirk Cousins ahead of Brees and Brady so there is that.................................:asshat
 

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Two first round tackles to block
4 first rounders to throw to...yeah he had a lot of talent. But he is still better than stidham
 

NEPA Phin Phan

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Simms has Kirk Cousins ahead of Brees and Brady so there is that.................................:asshat
Looking at the list, Tannehill, Stafford, and Murray are also ahead since they haven’t been listed yet.

In fact, I only see 13 more starting QBs left so I am not sure where he goes with the 14th, maybe Cam?
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39wildman

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I think yall making this thing bigger than it has to be.. Tua will drop in rank once he play.. from 20 to 40.. these qb are not that much of difference.. it log jam at qb position cross nfl. Guy like Brady, breese, big ben, rivers and Fitzpatrick. Who are almost 40 and are 40s still playing...
 

Rev Kev

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Imho - Simms has a Grudge against Dilfer and Dilfer speaks highly about Tua

Dilfer however just stays in his lane
 
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