Cutler's rising stock getting out of Fin's reach may not be such a bad thing...

[endorphin]

http://www.miamifootball365.com/dolphins/articles/2005/jay-cutler-dolphins300106.shtml

I found this article to be pretty right on with my thinking as it relates to Cutler. The only reason his stock has been rising so drastically is media hype, and not performance. The combine will probably show us more, but his Senior Bowl performance was quite disappointing as I felt Whitehurst looked better with equal talent on the field. I know we need a franchise QB, but neglecting and/or adversely affecting other needs to get him IMO are not in our best interest.

 

[my 2 cents]

WE really will not know how much Cutler stock has really risen or fallen until draft day...hype is hype. The scouts and NFL franchises will not draft a guy because of anything the media has done to hype him up...if an NFL club values him at 4, 16 or 221 that is where he will go..it all depends on his value to a particular NFL club not anything written in a paper or website or anything a draftnik thinks...personally Cutler belongs about 15-25 in my book...but hey my opinion is worth SQUAT....

http://www.miamifootball365.com/dolphins/articles/2005/jay-cutler-dolphins300106.shtml

I found this article to be pretty right on with my thinking as it relates to Cutler. The only reason his stock has been rising so drastically is media hype, and not performance. The combine will probably show us more, but his Senior Bowl performance was quite disappointing as I felt Whitehurst looked better with equal talent on the field. I know we need a franchise QB, but neglecting and/or adversely affecting other needs to get him IMO are not in our best interest.

 

[endorphin]

WE really will not know how much Cutler stock has really risen or fallen until draft day...hype is hype. The scouts and NFL franchises will not draft a guy because of anything the media has done to hype him up...if an NFL club values him at 4, 16 or 221 that is where he will go..it all depends on his value to a particular NFL club not anything written in a paper or website or anything a draftnik thinks...personally Cutler belongs about 15-25 in my book...but hey my opinion is worth SQUAT....

Often times teams reach for certain picks/players and IMO Cutler may just be one of them...I agree with you that he is probably a 15-25 type guy, but it is suspected that he has moved in to be a top 10 pick right now even with a poor Senior Bowl performance.

 

[BlueFin]

Well, everyone has the right to an opinion, I not sure who Hugo Guzman is, but I doubt he's an NFL scout.

Point being, some of the assumptions he makes would not come out of the mouth of an experienced scout.

Mr. Guzman seems to want to base his opinion on a QB playing 1/3 of game, with a brand new playbook, with brand new teamates and brand new coaches, that seems a little naive to me.

I'm more concerned with the raw skills the player has and the intelligence he displays, as well as his desire to learn and be molded than I am how they played in 1/3 of a game in those unique circumstances.

Think of it this way, most intelligent people and talent evaluators would not get down on a rookie QB who struggles for his entire first year in the NFL, THEY ARE EXPECTED TO MAKE MISTAKES.

So why on earth would you get down on a College QB who makes some mistakes, in 1/3 of a college bowl game, under those unique circumstances?

 

[Motion]

Yet another example of someone basing their opinion off of one performance.

 

[endorphin]

So why on earth would you get down on a College QB who makes some mistakes, in 1/3 of a college bowl game, under those unique circumstances?

I don't think he is getting down on him as much as not buying into the media hype of elevating his draft status although he had a poor Senior Bowl outing . His view of Whitehurst performing better with the same talent on the field is quite accurate IMO.

Yet another example of someone basing their opinion off of one performance.

I disagree...He is just not buying into increasing his value of that one performance.

 

[Motion]

Seriously though, I never got the point of all the "hype" talk. Think about it, where is it coming from? Mayock for sure, who has an analyst job for NFL Network, must be some reason he has that job. I've also heard Jimmy Johnson and Howie Long talk about cutler on FOX, they obviously know alittle about football. Has it gotten alittle out of hand? Perhaps. But have some of you ever thought that some of these people might actually know what they are talking about?

I'm not saying he's the top Qb, or that he could come in and start right away. But there is no doubt he has just as good of tools as any other QB in the draft if not better.

I disagree...He is just not buying into increasing his value of that one performance.

WHAT? In creasing the value of his "poor" performance at the Senior Bowl? What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[sports24/7]

I really don't think most NFL GM's are dumb enough to let media hype cause a player's stock to rise or fall. If his stock has risen in the media because of media hype thats a different story, but Nick Saban won't draft someone or trade up to draft someone if he isn't convinced he is worth it.

 

[Motion]

I really don't think most NFL GM's are dumb enough to let media hype cause a player's stock to rise or fall. If his stock has risen in the media because of media hype thats a different story, but Nick Saban won't draft someone or trade up to draft someone if he isn't convinced he is worth it.

Agreed

 

[endorphin]

Seriously though, I never got the point of all the "hype" talk. Think about it, where is it coming from? Mayock for sure, who has an analyst job for NFL Network, must be some reason he has that job. I've also heard Jimmy Johnson and Howie Long talk about cutler on FOX, they obviously know alittle about football. Has it gotten alittle out of hand? Perhaps. But have some of you ever thought that some of these people might actually know what they are talking about?

I'm not saying he's the top Qb, or that he could come in and start right away. But there is no doubt he has just as good of tools as any other QB in the draft if not better.



WHAT? In creasing the value of his "poor" performance at the Senior Bowl? What exactly do you mean by that?

Sorry, I meant he's not buying into JC'd value continuing to increase "after" the Senoir Bowl.

I firmly think think from all I have read that JC is the 2nd best pure QB in this draft. but at this point is he a top 10 pick in this draft? I don't think so. I think he's a 15-25 type guy.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I have to agree with sports24/7. His stock is rising because of his body, quick release and his practices.

 

[endorphin]

I really don't think most NFL GM's are dumb enough to let media hype cause a player's stock to rise or fall. If his stock has risen in the media because of media hype thats a different story, but Nick Saban won't draft someone or trade up to draft someone if he isn't convinced he is worth it.

I don't disagree with you...

 

[BlueFin]

I don't think he is getting down on him as much as not buying into the media hype of elevating his draft status although he had a poor Senior bow outing . His view of Whitehurst performing better with the same talent on the field is quite accurate IMO.

His elevated status is based upon his showing in practice, and an appreciation of the natural skills and intelligence he possesses, which make him an excellent prospect. His view of Whitehurst's 1/3 of a game versus Cutlers 1/3 of a game is naive and frankly ignorant. I can show you many a game of Dan Marino's, or any other QB for that matter, where they played poorly for 1/3 of that said game, only to play with great prowess the rest of the game. Now by your and Hugo's logic, if you only saw the 1/3 of a where Marino might have struggled, that would be relevent to you and Hugo in evaluating Marino as a QB, But it would not be an accurate assessment of the QB.

Conversely, you and Hugo might have watched Jay Fiedler play spotless against the Cowboys on thanksgiving a few years ago, and off that one performance judged him an excellent QB, once again, you would have been mistaken.

Point being, there is much more to evaluating the long term prospects of a QB than watching a QB play1/3 of college bowl game, on a team, and with coaches, and a playbook, with which he is not familar.

If you don't understand that, I'm afraid I can't help you, I'll guess you'll always be associated with the kneejerk reaction crowd.

 

[SCall13]

http://www.miamifootball365.com/dolphins/articles/2005/jay-cutler-dolphins300106.shtml

I found this article to be pretty right on with my thinking as it relates to Cutler. The only reason his stock has been rising so drastically is media hype, and not performance. The combine will probably show us more, but his Senior Bowl performance was quite disappointing as I felt Whitehurst looked better with equal talent on the field. I know we need a franchise QB, but neglecting and/or adversely affecting other needs to get him IMO are not in our best interest.

I agree. I've been saying this for a long time.

 

[fishypete]

Well, everyone has the right to an opinion, I not sure who Hugo Guzman is, but I doubt he's an NFL scout.

Point being, some of the assumptions he makes would not come out of the mouth of an experienced scout.

Mr. Guzman seems to want to base his opinion on a QB playing 1/3 of game, with a brand new playbook, with brand new teamates and brand new coaches, that seems a little naive to me.

I'm more concerned with the raw skills the player has and the intelligence he displays, as well as his desire to learn and be molded than I am how they played in 1/3 of a game in those unique circumstances.

Think of it this way, most intelligent people and talent evaluators would not get down on a rookie QB who struggles for his entire first year in the NFL, THEY ARE EXPECTED TO MAKE MISTAKES.

So why on earth would you get down on a College QB who makes some mistakes, in 1/3 of a college bowl game, under those unique circumstances?

I agree with you Blue...but then again...you shouldn't use it to improve a players standing also...but we know that happened to Rivers and other players that played well at the senior Bowl. Not only do we fans have numerous opinions...but history has shown us that scouts and G.M.'s do as well. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

His elevated status is based upon his showing in practice, and an appreciation of the natural skills and intelligence he possesses, which make him an excellent prospect. His view of Whitehurst's 1/3 of a game versus Cutlers 1/3 of a game is naive and frankly ignorant. I can show you many a game of Dan Marino's, or any other QB for that matter, where they played poorly for 1/3 of that said game, only to play with great prowess the rest of the game. Now by your and Hugo's logic, if you only saw the 1/3 of a where Marino might have struggled, that would be relevent to you and Hugo in evaluating Marino as a QB, But it would not be an accurate assessment of the QB.

Conversely, you and Hugo might have watched Jay Fiedler play spotless against the Cowboys on thanksgiving a few years ago, and off that one performance judged him an excellent QB, once again, you would have been mistaken.

Point being, there is much more to evaluating the long term prospects of a QB than watching a QB play1/3 of college bowl game, on a team, and with coaches, and a playbook, with which he is not familar.

If you don't understand that, I'm afraid I can't help you, I'll guess you'll always be associated with the kneejerk reaction crowd.

Now we disagree...Cutlers stock was rising long before he played and practiced in the Senior Bowl...that rise was created by pure hype by so called experts and the media...kinda like monkey see. Ever notice that when when a few say something about a player...it seems to grow..as time goes by...but on draft day when it counts...reality hits. This happens every year...as long as I can remember watching drafts...there's always a few players that get attention...rightfully so or not.