Cutting OG for Scott ? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Cutting OG for Scott ?

Originally posted by EddieIrvine13
Do we have to cut someone to get Scott? Last time I checked, we still have room for one more FA. We can afford Scott. We have so many injuries, it would be nice to add him for insurance... we almost signed Cris Carter without cutting anyone!
CC, Scott, McKnight, Ward, OG... that leaves us with 5 good WRs... after that we have scrubs.
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They still have to sign their draft picks, and have somewhere near 1 million of cap money left.....

As for signing Chris Carter without cutting anyone? Chris Carter was the one jocking Miami, and Miami knew they needed DL help before anything, but was not sure who they wanted. They only had 3.1 millions under the cap to sign ONE player, their draft picks, leaving them enough money to sign an emergency FA in case of some freak injury during training camp, and or compensation for any camp fodders that get injured! Trust me Orande would have been cut had Carter been signed!
 
Our rookies wont count against the salary cap because only the top 53 players count. The 53rd highest paid player makes $300,000. Last year Fletcher(our 1st rounder) made $260,000. McKinney was a 3rd rounder(Greenwood & Minor both made $209,000 last year), so he wont come close to the top 53.

Only the prorated portion of our rookies signing bonus will count vs the cap so we still have about 2 mill left to spend(3.1 mill-Burnett's contract).
 
I didn't start this thread...I made that post in another thread...

weird..

But anyway, it does seem kind of ****ty to cut a homegrown for another guy like Darnay but still Darnay is probably just plain more talented than Gadsden. He's been a cancer in Cincinnati but honestly who hasn't over there. Corey Dillon was makin the biggest stink of them all at one time. OG has 1 more year left under contract and if indeed cutting him would save 1.35 mil, then it would be enough to get Darnay Scott under a 4 year contract or so considering signing bonus and the normally graduated base salaries for each season...especially this late in the game.

If we wanted to do it, we could. And from a talent perspective we could do it. I think that because of his hands people automatically think Oronde's a possession receiver but thats not true. He's a big playmaker because of his size and hands down the field. He has been since he's been with the dolphins. He's nowhere even close to what OJ McDuffie once was in the slot. In fact I don't think OG has taken a single snap in the slot since he's been with the phins and I could see why not. If any of our receivers could be called a possession WR this year it was James McKnight. With the little separation that OG gets cuz of his speed, even with his hands he's too much of a risk to treat as a possession receiver because you risk interception everytime you throw it to him....cuz basically you're just tossing the ball in his direction and hoping he gets it, and it just so happens a lot of the time he does. But what happens if the other guy makes the play instead? Like I said before just cuz a guy is slow and sure handed don't mistake him for a possession WR, especially not in the mold Miami's been using the last half decade or so. A more accurate description of Gadsden would be saying that he has size, hands, and physical ability to make big plays down the field with man on man coverage.
 
Originally posted by SMadison29
Our rookies wont count against the salary cap because only the top 53 players count. The 53rd highest paid player makes $300,000. Last year Fletcher(our 1st rounder) made $260,000. McKinney was a 3rd rounder(Greenwood & Minor both made $209,000 last year), so he wont come close to the top 53.

Only the prorated portion of our rookies signing bonus will count vs the cap so we still have about 2 mill left to spend(3.1 mill-Burnett's contract).
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Burnett counts $900,000 against the cap this year. And every team alots a projected amount of money towards their cap. Miami's is around 1.4 million which is for this year.....signing bonus, and first year salary for the 5 draft picks. More money can be found soon enough, for instance if Jeff Ogden gets cut, being replaced by a Sam Simmons, then depending on signing bonus' somewhere around 200,000-300,000 can be saved.......and this will be the case for any rookie making the team this year. I expect Miami to be around 1.5 mil under the cap come final cut day (barring injuries of course)

I've been looking for the article I got this info from just so we would not get into a long debate over it.......I'll find it soon.
 
Originally posted by ckparrothead
But anyway, it does seem kind of ****ty to cut a homegrown for another guy like Darnay but still Darnay is probably just plain more talented than Gadsden. He's been a cancer in Cincinnati but honestly who hasn't over there. Corey Dillon was makin the biggest stink of them all at one time. OG has 1 more year left under contract and if indeed cutting him would save 1.35 mil, then it would be enough to get Darnay Scott under a 4 year contract or so considering signing bonus and the normally graduated base salaries for each season...especially this late in the game.

If we wanted to do it, we could. And from a talent perspective we could do it. I think that because of his hands people automatically think Oronde's a possession receiver but thats not true. He's a big playmaker because of his size and hands down the field. He has been since he's been with the dolphins. He's nowhere even close to what OJ McDuffie once was in the slot. In fact I don't think OG has taken a single snap in the slot since he's been with the phins and I could see why not. If any of our receivers could be called a possession WR this year it was James McKnight. With the little separation that OG gets cuz of his speed, even with his hands he's too much of a risk to treat as a possession receiver because you risk interception everytime you throw it to him....cuz basically you're just tossing the ball in his direction and hoping he gets it, and it just so happens a lot of the time he does. But what happens if the other guy makes the play instead? Like I said before just cuz a guy is slow and sure handed don't mistake him for a possession WR, especially not in the mold Miami's been using the last half decade or so. A more accurate description of Gadsden would be saying that he has size, hands, and physical ability to make big plays down the field with man on man coverage.
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Scot is a definete Deep Threat speedster whom also has size! But take a look at his stats, in 9 years he has 27 receptions of 40 yds or more. OG has nine in 6 years. You are 100 percent correct about OG's big play capability, but never has he scored on a long ball.

IMHO they are two different types of Wr's, and cutting one to aquire the other makes no sense to me. Now McKnight would be another story, he may have been placed in the slot, but he should be this teams deep threat on the outside, and replacing him with Scot makes much more sense. Replacing OG with Carter makes sense as well.

And I'm not trying to tell you your wrong, just giving you my thoughts on it!
 
I was right about how the cap works, just had the wrong # of players. Its the top 51, not 53, & rookies do count. But the rookies salary is subtracted from the cap the day of the draft.

From the official NFL Players Association page under CBA (http://nflpa.org/members/main.asp?subPage=CBA+Complete#art17)

"Drafted Rookies’ Salaries shall be tendered automatically at the Rookie Minimum Active List Salary as of the day of the Draft and shall be included in Team Salary until (1) the player is signed, (2) the Team’s rights are relinquished through waivers, or (3) the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season (if the player is unsigned).

If it didn't work like this teams like the Ravens would never be able to sign all their rookies. The Ravens have less than a million of cap room, & 10 rookies. The Ravens had to cut 2 players the day before the draft because of the above stated rule.


The top 51:
"(i) The highest applicable Salary set forth in Paragraph 5 of the NFL Player Contract shall be included in Team Salary in the year earned, except that, between March 1 and the first day of the regular playing season, only the following amounts from Paragraph 5 shall be included for players whose Player Contracts are not among the Team’s 51 highest valued Player Contracts, tenders and Offer Sheets (as determined under this Section 7):

(1) Any amount that exceeds the Minimum Active/Inactive List Salary for Undrafted Rookie Free Agents; and

(2) Any amount that exceeds twice the applicable Minimum Active/Inactive List Salary for all other players."


So we still have[$3,071,000-Burnett($900,000)] $2,171,000 left to spend.
 
Originally posted by iceblizzard69
I wouldn't cut OG for Scott. That would be dumb.
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Why? He won't be here next year anyways. All that means is that we will have a definate hole that will have to be filled in FA instead of adding a low priced WR while we can draft a WR for grooming. Scott is twice the player that OG is. Sentimentalism doesn't win football games.
 
Originally posted by SMadison29
I was right about how the cap works, just had the wrong # of players. Its the top 51, not 53, & rookies do count. But the rookies salary is subtracted from the cap the day of the draft.

From the official NFL Players Association page under CBA (http://nflpa.org/members/main.asp?subPage=CBA+Complete#art17)

"Drafted Rookies’ Salaries shall be tendered automatically at the Rookie Minimum Active List Salary as of the day of the Draft and shall be included in Team Salary until (1) the player is signed, (2) the Team’s rights are relinquished through waivers, or (3) the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season (if the player is unsigned).

If it didn't work like this teams like the Ravens would never be able to sign all their rookies. The Ravens have less than a million of cap room, & 10 rookies. The Ravens had to cut 2 players the day before the draft because of the above stated rule.


The top 51:
"(i) The highest applicable Salary set forth in Paragraph 5 of the NFL Player Contract shall be included in Team Salary in the year earned, except that, between March 1 and the first day of the regular playing season, only the following amounts from Paragraph 5 shall be included for players whose Player Contracts are not among the Team’s 51 highest valued Player Contracts, tenders and Offer Sheets (as determined under this Section 7):

(1) Any amount that exceeds the Minimum Active/Inactive List Salary for Undrafted Rookie Free Agents; and

(2) Any amount that exceeds twice the applicable Minimum Active/Inactive List Salary for all other players."

So we still have[$3,071,000-Burnett($900,000)] $2,171,000 left to spend.
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Thanks for that info, what I read in the Article I'm still looking for has Miami stating that of the 3.1 million they are said to be under, 1.5 mil is the money for their draft picks. All I have to do is keep searching every day of for the last month of three newspapers I read, and this might clear what I'm saying up.

I know that you sure cleared up your end, give me a little time on this one :)
 
I think that with the McNown trade we could maybe buy some space to sign Antonio Freemen. I would not release Oronde for Scott.
 
This clears up $150,000 of cap room now, because Cade made $450,000 & the 51st highest makes $300,000.

But by the time final cuts role around it'll save us an extra $75,000 because Levcik & Kustok make $225,000, & we're going to keep 3 QBs.
 
Yeah McNown didn't take up much room. We could resign OG but lets face it he doesnt have many good years left. To me Scott has a future, OG doesn't. Scott would be able to sign multi-year, it doesnt make sense to do so with OG. Scott has been posting OG's type of numbers (even better in most years) in a much ****tier situation with MUCH ****tier QBs.

I'm not sayin its a no brainer. Obviously they have different styles of play, but that doesnt mean they fit different roles. Honestly Chambers should be thrown at more in the redzone, and he possesses many of the same qualities as Gadsden. McKnight is excellent after the catch with juke moves (long as he's not fumbling) and he's got deep speed. Darnay Scott is more of a complete WR though, and there's no doubt in my mind that he is just flat out more talented than OG, whether you talk about what roles they play or not. And yet, it is disheartening to other teammates if OG just gets outright cut for a new guy like Darnay. Might hurt chemistry a bit.

But personally, I'd do it.
 
Originally posted by Ozzy


Thanks for that info, what I read in the Article I'm still looking for has Miami stating that of the 3.1 million they are said to be under, 1.5 mil is the money for their draft picks. All I have to do is keep searching every day of for the last month of three newspapers I read, and this might clear what I'm saying up.

I know that you sure cleared up your end, give me a little time on this one :)
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Is this what you were talking about?? The rookie pool.
 
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