Dave Hyde: Chris Grier is the Liam Eichenberg of general managers

[OrangeBowl]

Grier should have been fired a while ago. Mainly because he’s poor at evaluating leaders and consistently brings in soft and mentally weak players.

He's the Joe Biden of GM's.

 

[stillhardcore]

If anyone on this blog is CONFIDENT in Chris Grier getting us to sniff a SuperBowl, please stand up and reveal yourself!

 

[EasyRider]

I tried telling you guys bringing Grier and McDummy back this season was a throw away season. And some here questioned my fandom???? A total waste of time Oh well

Faith? BwaaaWaaaHaaaa

 

[Manning]

He's the Joe Biden of GM's.

And we need someone who’s going to
Make the Dolphins Great Again

 

[stillhardcore]

Want to bet a donation to FH?

I don't believe Grier is on the hot seat at all. Somehow he has a LIfetime Pass as Dolphins GM.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I can understand the frustration with the Dolphins as a whole. They're finding a way to F up as they make questionable long-term commitments, as they let home-grown talent walk, as they hemorrhage picks, etc.

I just don't know where Chris Grier fits into the equation.

He's not behind every decision.

We have one of the boldest Owners in the NFL. Ross spends like crazy. He runs off qualified people. He tampers. He gets himself suspended. He goes behind the back of his own people while negotiating in private with players, coaches and agents from around the NFL...

...to say this is 'Chris Grier's team' takes a lot of balls.



I mean, not that long ago the Dolphins tried to hire a new GM and despite interviewing several people and reportedly making offers to many of them, no one would take the job. Dennis Hickey was like, what, the 5th guy offered the job or something crazy like that?

Broadly speaking, what exactly has changed about the Dolphins since Grier became GM? Do you not remember the coming and going of HCs prior to Grier? Do you not remember the questionable extensions prior to Grier? Do you not remember the splashy moves for players who cost and arm and a leg?

Everything people complain about predates Chris Grier. To blame Chris Grier is to think only about his tenure and to forget basically all this extends back to '09 when Parcells first quit when Ross took power.



I think Grier builds out the roster (particularly the middle and deeper portions of it). I can believe for that same reason that he runs the drafts, but I think he does that along with input from coaches he doesn't hire. I think he's trying to work with who Ross tells him he has to work with: Gase, Flores, McDaniel, etc.

A GM wouldn't hire & fire HCs like that. He would execute according to a single vision year after year. Yet Ross has talked up every one of those hires. I think that all points to Ross being behind those hires. After all, it's his team. Why would Ross not be making those big decisions?

I think Grier is in Miami because the money & job security is good. I have no faith the next guy won't be even more a shill for the Owner letting Ross get even more involved and doing so without finding the good, cheap players that Grier occasionally turns up.

If we fire Chris Grier, he'll be instantly picked up and integrated into another organization and if that next organization has a more reasonable Ownership, it's very likely Grier's abilities will lead to that organization having success.



Some people will also blame Grier for not changing Ross' attitude but I remind you that we've already crossed this bridge. Ross took power from Bill Parcells and ran him out. He's had no problem pushing away veteran coaches who wanted out after just a single year within the organization (eg. Gailey, Fangio). He wanted no part in Dan Campbell when he was here.

Ross tried to hire a GM and nobody wanted to serve him and thus he promoted a guy from within who had marginal qualifications who he knew would take the paycheck and be subordinate.

If we fired Grier, I'm pretty sure the line for GM would be short and we'd very likely end up with someone even worse.

Last year, Grier did nothing to offend us instead bringing us long-term developmental players on cheap deals at Edge, LT, WR and RB alongside valuable contributors at TE, C and MLB on modest FA contracts. That's hardly driving the team into the ground!

What Ross gave us was an uncomfortable, $200M extension to a QB who I'm pretty sure any GM in the world would've agreed was a huge liability / risk and who very much needed to play out his 5th year extension. Keep in mind, $200M deal's like that don't get done without Ownership being completely onboard.


To blame Grier is to forget how much Ross controls this team. Grier has his mistakes and I really wonder about the exodus of good talent: Minkah, Wilkins, AVG, Hunt, etc. Why don't these players show interest in sticking around? It's not just money. These players generally find Miami is toxic. It's not a winning organization because leadership is a mess and yes, Grier needs to be held accountable as much as anyone else.

But I sincerely doubt any GM would've made the '09-'24 Ross era make sense.

On a tangent, one group claims Grier makes ALL personnel decisions and, by himself, drafts players and signs FAs. Some claiming he even releases players on his own. Another group claims he lets Mcd do all that but he SHOULD may those decisions. They need to get together and fight it out.
I've said for 2-3 years, I'm agnostic on Grier. Don't care if Ross cans him or not. But, I agree, Ross has screwed up so many times (Harbaugh, Brady), he's probably given Grier some cover.

 

[Rick Cartman]

Not only that, but he also rid the team of a bunch of bloated contracts for undeserving, underperforming, and/or injury-prone players during the rebuild, only to put the team right back in the same position again. IMO, the fact that he's heading into his tenth year as GM and still doesn't even have five decent o-linemen is enough to fire him.

He should have been gone after this past off-season, 6 seasons with 2 different coaches he got to pick is more than enough of an opportunity.
Alas it is what it is
We're in the same end game we were in with Ireland where the only real defense is the GM of the team isn't the one making the picks.
We're talking in the same circles like we were ten years ago
We haven't drafted many all-pros since he's been here, admittedly that isn't only on him, especially before he was head scout for the team, but he isn't the cure to the illness that ails the team; that should be apparent by this point.

 

[Rick Cartman]

On a tangent, one group claims Grier makes ALL personnel decisions and, by himself, drafts players and signs FAs. Some claiming he even releases players on his own. Another group claims he lets Mcd do all that but he SHOULD may those decisions. They need to get together and fight it out.
I've said for 2-3 years, I'm agnostic on Grier. Don't care if Ross cans him or not. But, I agree, Ross has screwed up so many times (Harbaugh, Brady), he's probably given Grier some cover.

It isn't an all or nothing proposition, as the GM he has input in personnel and the other people that have a considerable amount of input were hired by him (Allen, McKenzie, McDaniel, Flores etc)
This is his front office and scouting department he built, he also got to pick the HC twice.

 

[AMakados10]

I can understand the frustration with the Dolphins as a whole. They're finding a way to F up as they make questionable long-term commitments, as they let home-grown talent walk, as they hemorrhage picks, etc.

I just don't know where Chris Grier fits into the equation.

He's not behind every decision.

We have one of the boldest Owners in the NFL. Ross spends like crazy. He runs off qualified people. He tampers. He gets himself suspended. He goes behind the back of his own people while negotiating in private with players, coaches and agents from around the NFL...

...to say this is 'Chris Grier's team' takes a lot of balls.



I mean, not that long ago the Dolphins tried to hire a new GM and despite interviewing several people and reportedly making offers to many of them, no one would take the job. Dennis Hickey was like, what, the 5th guy offered the job or something crazy like that?

Broadly speaking, what exactly has changed about the Dolphins since Grier became GM? Do you not remember the coming and going of HCs prior to Grier? Do you not remember the questionable extensions prior to Grier? Do you not remember the splashy moves for players who cost and arm and a leg?

Everything people complain about predates Chris Grier. To blame Chris Grier is to think only about his tenure and to forget basically all this extends back to '09 when Parcells first quit when Ross took power.



I think Grier builds out the roster (particularly the middle and deeper portions of it). I can believe for that same reason that he runs the drafts, but I think he does that along with input from coaches he doesn't hire. I think he's trying to work with who Ross tells him he has to work with: Gase, Flores, McDaniel, etc.

A GM wouldn't hire & fire HCs like that. He would execute according to a single vision year after year. Yet Ross has talked up every one of those hires. I think that all points to Ross being behind those hires. After all, it's his team. Why would Ross not be making those big decisions?

I think Grier is in Miami because the money & job security is good. I have no faith the next guy won't be even more a shill for the Owner letting Ross get even more involved and doing so without finding the good, cheap players that Grier occasionally turns up.

If we fire Chris Grier, he'll be instantly picked up and integrated into another organization and if that next organization has a more reasonable Ownership, it's very likely Grier's abilities will lead to that organization having success.



Some people will also blame Grier for not changing Ross' attitude but I remind you that we've already crossed this bridge. Ross took power from Bill Parcells and ran him out. He's had no problem pushing away veteran coaches who wanted out after just a single year within the organization (eg. Gailey, Fangio). He wanted no part in Dan Campbell when he was here.

Ross tried to hire a GM and nobody wanted to serve him and thus he promoted a guy from within who had marginal qualifications who he knew would take the paycheck and be subordinate.

If we fired Grier, I'm pretty sure the line for GM would be short and we'd very likely end up with someone even worse.

Last year, Grier did nothing to offend us instead bringing us long-term developmental players on cheap deals at Edge, LT, WR and RB alongside valuable contributors at TE, C and MLB on modest FA contracts. That's hardly driving the team into the ground!

What Ross gave us was an uncomfortable, $200M extension to a QB who I'm pretty sure any GM in the world would've agreed was a huge liability / risk and who very much needed to play out his 5th year extension. Keep in mind, $200M deal's like that don't get done without Ownership being completely onboard.


To blame Grier is to forget how much Ross controls this team. Grier has his mistakes and I really wonder about the exodus of good talent: Minkah, Wilkins, AVG, Hunt, etc. Why don't these players show interest in sticking around? It's not just money. These players generally find Miami is toxic. It's not a winning organization because leadership is a mess and yes, Grier needs to be held accountable as much as anyone else.

But I sincerely doubt any GM would've made the '09-'24 Ross era make sense.

 

[Beach Bum]

Dave Hyde writes negative articles - writers like him Brian Miller of Phin Phanatic, on the national level Colin Cowherd, they say/write things about the Dolphins that makes you wonder if they just can't see what really goes on or just have agendas that they must keep up with. Not too long ago, Dave Hyde was questioning the work that Chris Grier has done. The performance on the field is a teamwork of not only the Front Office but the Coaching Staff as well and Injury luck. The last 3 years, anyone being objective will tell you that the Injuries played a part in either the Dolphins losing in the Playoffs or not get there like last year. Chris Grier's job is to get his Coaches the Players and he does a good job of that. Last year, being cap-strapped, he was able to get Pro Bowl caliber guys like Jonnu S., A. Brewer, J. Brooks, Calais C.! Even this year, with around $20M only in cap space, he has signed 1 starting Safety, re-signed starting ILB, 1 starting G, #3 WR, upgrade at Punter, top 3 blocking TE per Seattle's GM! Just 8-9 months ago, the Players voted Miami with the second most top 100 players! PFF and Fox among others voted Miami as a top 10 talented team last Summer. Grier is not perfect but he does a much better job than some people want you to believe.

Whoa there! Let's not get too excited. As Ricky Bobby says, if you're not first, you're last. We haven't even come close to reaching a Super Bowl in a long, long, time.

 

[Rick Cartman]

I can understand the frustration with the Dolphins as a whole. They're finding a way to F up as they make questionable long-term commitments, as they let home-grown talent walk, as they hemorrhage picks, etc.

I just don't know where Chris Grier fits into the equation.

He's not behind every decision.

We have one of the boldest Owners in the NFL. Ross spends like crazy. He runs off qualified people. He tampers. He gets himself suspended. He goes behind the back of his own people while negotiating in private with players, coaches and agents from around the NFL...

...to say this is 'Chris Grier's team' takes a lot of balls.



I mean, not that long ago the Dolphins tried to hire a new GM and despite interviewing several people and reportedly making offers to many of them, no one would take the job. Dennis Hickey was like, what, the 5th guy offered the job or something crazy like that?

Broadly speaking, what exactly has changed about the Dolphins since Grier became GM? Do you not remember the coming and going of HCs prior to Grier? Do you not remember the questionable extensions prior to Grier? Do you not remember the splashy moves for players who cost and arm and a leg?

Everything people complain about predates Chris Grier. To blame Chris Grier is to think only about his tenure and to forget basically all this extends back to '09 when Parcells first quit when Ross took power.



I think Grier builds out the roster (particularly the middle and deeper portions of it). I can believe for that same reason that he runs the drafts, but I think he does that along with input from coaches he doesn't hire. I think he's trying to work with who Ross tells him he has to work with: Gase, Flores, McDaniel, etc.

A GM wouldn't hire & fire HCs like that. He would execute according to a single vision year after year. Yet Ross has talked up every one of those hires. I think that all points to Ross being behind those hires. After all, it's his team. Why would Ross not be making those big decisions?

I think Grier is in Miami because the money & job security is good. I have no faith the next guy won't be even more a shill for the Owner letting Ross get even more involved and doing so without finding the good, cheap players that Grier occasionally turns up.

If we fire Chris Grier, he'll be instantly picked up and integrated into another organization and if that next organization has a more reasonable Ownership, it's very likely Grier's abilities will lead to that organization having success.



Some people will also blame Grier for not changing Ross' attitude but I remind you that we've already crossed this bridge. Ross took power from Bill Parcells and ran him out. He's had no problem pushing away veteran coaches who wanted out after just a single year within the organization (eg. Gailey, Fangio). He wanted no part in Dan Campbell when he was here.

Ross tried to hire a GM and nobody wanted to serve him and thus he promoted a guy from within who had marginal qualifications who he knew would take the paycheck and be subordinate.

If we fired Grier, I'm pretty sure the line for GM would be short and we'd very likely end up with someone even worse.

Last year, Grier did nothing to offend us instead bringing us long-term developmental players on cheap deals at Edge, LT, WR and RB alongside valuable contributors at TE, C and MLB on modest FA contracts. That's hardly driving the team into the ground!

What Ross gave us was an uncomfortable, $200M extension to a QB who I'm pretty sure any GM in the world would've agreed was a huge liability / risk and who very much needed to play out his 5th year extension. Keep in mind, $200M deal's like that don't get done without Ownership being completely onboard.


To blame Grier is to forget how much Ross controls this team. Grier has his mistakes and I really wonder about the exodus of good talent: Minkah, Wilkins, AVG, Hunt, etc. Why don't these players show interest in sticking around? It's not just money. These players generally find Miami is toxic. It's not a winning organization because leadership is a mess and yes, Grier needs to be held accountable as much as anyone else.

But I sincerely doubt any GM would've made the '09-'24 Ross era make sense.

In 2014 Hickey was hired because the team had just came out of bullygate and the Philbin Ireland relationship went toxic. Philbin was still here and it can be argued any candidate with career prospects didn't want to be straddled with that. If you look at our GMs under Ross : Ireland, Hickey, Tannenbaum, and then Grier none of them were ever sought out commodities before their hiring. For as much as Ross seems to go after highly sought after HC candidates he doesn't seem to apply that same logic to GMs for whatever reason, none of those guys were sought after before they were GM (or whatever Tannenbaum was) and not after. I doubt Grier ever sniffs another GM job again once his time here is over just like the other 3. It's also worth noting we were Mike McDaniel's only interview request during the coaching cycle and it was between him and Kellen Moore who finally got a HC job this year. It's likely a highly sought after GM candidate is going to want to bring in his own guy and Mike McDaniel might cause these guys to look elsewhere following this year if Grier is gone; i think Champ Kelly is probably the next GM whether we like it or not anyways. I don't think Ross is calling the shots behind the scene, i think the issue is the people that interview are required to take on conditions such as an existing HC or GM leftover from the last regime, if you recall Grier and Ross wanted whoever was hired in 2022 to retain Boyer on top of working with Grier, who just had a nasty divorce with Flores. There has not been a clean slate with the franchise since the team fired Cam Cameron in 2007, at least one person has rolled over, either GM or HC, since Parcells was hired which was also when Ross bought the team in late 2007.

 

[Mello Yello]

On a tangent, one group claims Grier makes ALL personnel decisions and, by himself, drafts players and signs FAs. Some claiming he even releases players on his own. Another group claims he lets Mcd do all that but he SHOULD may those decisions. They need to get together and fight it out.
I've said for 2-3 years, I'm agnostic on Grier. Don't care if Ross cans him or not. But, I agree, Ross has screwed up so many times (Harbaugh, Brady), he's probably given Grier some cover.

Maybe Ross is a genius?

He owns the team. He does what he wants. So long as he's wheeling & dealing, splurging & spending the fans will consider him an Owner that cares and blame someone else thinking it's better to have an Owner with deep pockets than an Owner who sits back and let's football people run the show.

Meanwhile, Ross' antics which crop up to create national embarrassment / humiliation once every couple of years seem to set us back, swinging the pendulum violently back and forth in a series of reflexive, reactionary moves...firing coaches, chasing people who aren't interested, letting internal people walk, tanking, trading, etc.

And yet the vast majority of the hate always falls on the HC on the field or the GM who ultimately exists mainly to execute the Owners vision.

 

[Mello Yello]

...[Grier] also got to pick the HC twice.

I have no idea.

And neither do you.

There's 0 reason to believe Ross would keep Grier around if Grier continually failed to execute on a vision that he himself (Grier) owned.

The simpler explanation is that Ross is the Captain and Grier is the XO, managing the staff and carrying out the orders.

 

[Mello Yello]

For as much as Ross seems to go after highly sought after HC candidates he doesn't seem to apply that same logic to GMs for whatever reason, none of those guys were sought after before they were GM...

...because Ross is (and aims to remain) the one in control.

He's looking for a GM in name only, a subordinate to assist in the carrying out of his own vision.

It's likely a highly sought after GM candidate is going to want to bring in his own guy and Mike McDaniel might cause these guys to look elsewhere following this year if Grier is gone;

If Ross is the one controlling the HC hiring (which I believe he is based on his adoration of these guys at the time of their hirings), why would he ever welcome any new GM candidate who asked for control over the HC hiring process?

Ross treats it like it's his team...which it is.

I think the issue is the people that interview are required to take on conditions such as an existing HC or GM leftover from the last regime...

And why are they required to?

Because Ross controls everything...who goes, who stays, who gets hired, etc.

These aren't pre-conditions as much as they're simply Ross' preferences!

You act like rich people with the money to treat an NFL franchise as their play-thing want to collaborate. Do you honestly believe that or is the simplest answer not the most likely, which is that a rich guy calls all the shots and hires only those who allow him to continue doing so?

Is it really all that surprising that a powerful, wealthy elite bought the team and sees fit to do as he pleases?

There has not been a clean slate with the franchise since the team fired Cam Cameron in 2007, at least one person has rolled over, either GM or HC, since Parcells was hired which was also when Ross bought the team in late 2007.

Exactly!

There hasn't been a clean slate....since Ross took over!

 

[Rick Cartman]

I have no idea.

And neither do you.

There's 0 reason to believe Ross would keep Grier around if Grier continually failed to execute on a vision that he himself (Grier) owned.

The simpler explanation is that Ross is the Captain and Grier is the XO, managing the staff and carrying out the orders.

There isn't a reason based upon factual support to believe Ross is hands on in that manner, there are only a few known instances where Ross stepped in as owner (Kyle Orton trade, 2018 when they could have traded for two first round picks or taken Lamar Jackson, and the Deshaun Watson trade). Ironically he was probably correct in his assessment all 3 of those instances, certainly the Watson trade. Also most of the people that cover the Dolphins have stated Ross is hands off with regard to personnel decisions.
I think Ross is fond of Grier, that's the simplest and most likely answer, as to why Grier is still around.
There's also the theory that Grier knows where the bodies are buried and might pull of a Flores if he's fired, but i don't necessarily buy into that.