Defense Broken Up?

poornate

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I hate to bring this up, but I wanted to hear the opinions of a few people who know the contracts of the team better. I was just reading an article on Yahoo sports where the topic of not being able to keep the defense together after this year was brought up. I wondered what your opinions are as to who may not be returning? I have my opinion and hate it. What do you think?
 

Baz

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I think we have some loyal veterans who would work with the FO on getting under the cap. Miami is an awesome place to live, and since most of the guys who are being mentioned have been here a while and probably have some loyalty, I think they would be glad to help out the team. However, if that doesn't happen, there is not one guy on this defense I would want to see go. However, the consensus around here is that it would be Sam on the ax. I have a different idea. Lately, we have had both David Bowens and O-Gun coming along nicely. If they both become good, does that make Jason Taylor the guy in danger? There are no real corners on our roster to step into Sam or Pat's shoes, or no MLB to replace Zach. Just a thought......
 

poornate

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I watched Zach Thomas from in college and liked him. He became a Dolphin and became my favorite player. I love the way he plays and I admire his heart. He's also the oldest of the key guys on defense and the most often injured. I'm scared that if there's a purge he will be the one to go. I agree that a lot of the guys would restructure but I'm afraid that someone going is inevitable. I do not want it to be Zach Thomas. I don't think it will be Jason Taylor. I believe that despite the implications to the team it will be either Thomas or Sam Madison. I love the parity in the league, but this side of it sucks. i wish they would impose a free agency system that rewarded teams for drafting well by excluding a percentage of players salaries from counting against the cap as long as they remained with the team that drafted them.
 

dolfan87

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I just can't picture Zach, Jason, Sam, or Patrick in another Uni. Tim Bowens, Brock Marion, Derrick Rodgers...those guys I see moving on, but our core I believe will stay intact doing whatever it takes to make the salary cap work.

Although having said that, at some point guys wear out, and simply have to be replaced. Marino is the perfect example...as much as we wanted to see him win the Super Bowl, his skills had diminished to the point that it was time for him to retire.

As far as short term goes, we will work it out.
 

scotgif

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Next year, some guys, on the O, and the D that I feel are prime candidates for cap-cutting moves are: D. Rogers, TimBo, Russell, Gadsden, Ruddy, Dixon, Both Perry boys, Lucas, Edwards?, Marion, Royals.

How's that? 12 guys. There's your cap-crunching! And we didn't even have to get rid of our "core group" of defensive guys. With the exeption of TimBo. We can still keep the big guns, Zach, JT, Sam, Pat.

So, it shouldn't be as bad as some people are making it seem to be. That is, of course, if Wannspiel sees it the way I do.
 

Wyvern_Bob

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Unless TimBo becomes too injury prone then I reckon he will be here next year as he will count less than 1.5 million against the cap. But he has a 1.8 mill option after 2003 and his cap figure jumps to almost 3mill so he may well be gone then.
The problem comes with those core players - Jason,Zach,Sam & Pat account for almost 19mill in base salary next year and with the hit from Gardner as well next year could be tough. However Zach will be in the last year of his contract next year - if they decide the wear and tear isn't catching up with him then an extension could help his cap hit.
Bottom line is - sure they will have to be creative but we're a long way from the dark depths of cap hell that the 49ers, Jags, Ravens and next year the Raiders will visit
 

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I don't think we are as bad off as people were saying. With Tim Bowens being cut and being resigned to a more modest contract (combine that with Chester's contract and we are getting off ok for what is supposed to be the engine of our defense). With Gardener being cut his #'s will be off the books starting 2004 when the phins would have been in major cap trouble. However now with Bowens/Gardeners #'s effectively being reduced to 25% of what they were it's definately put us in a more easier to manipulate place.

Zach Thomas is on the books for $4.3 million however if they worked out the same extension with him as last time his deal was never really a "killer" so to speak since $4.3 million was his highest base salary.

So that leaves Jason Taylor and Sam Madison with the big contracts and Patrick Surtain as the most likely to be fiddled with next offseason.

It's really only Patrick's contract that takes a huge leap next year by the millions. Whereas Madison/Taylor's contracts rise $1 million each. So as far as cap trouble goes we are relatively fine. Where we do get into trouble is with the Ricky Williams/Chris Chambers deals. Ricky can be manipulated because he doesn't have many options. He can either play for what he's getting or don't play at all. Chambers on the other hand will be a pricey extension if he makes over 1000 yards recieving this year. Even that still shouldn't bother us till 2005-2006 with the dolphins trick of low salary cap #'s for the first 2 years of a contract.

Almost definitive contract reworkings or cuts (if they dont' restructure enough) would probably include:

-James McKnight will also be cut or work out a new deal with the phins because his base salary is $1.5 million alone for a 4th WR (3rd when O.G goes).

-Derrick Rodgers is up for a whopping $2.5 million base salary next year and I see us drafting or signing a new LB entirely.

-Tim Ruddy is up for $1.8 million base but will most likely lose his job to Seth McKinney and that money could be put somewhere else on the line.
 

Baz

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Originally posted by scotgif
Next year, some guys, on the O, and the D that I feel are prime candidates for cap-cutting moves are: D. Rogers, TimBo, Russell, Gadsden, Ruddy, Dixon, Both Perry boys, Lucas, Edwards?, Marion, Royals.

How's that? 12 guys. There's your cap-crunching! And we didn't even have to get rid of our "core group" of defensive guys. With the exeption of TimBo. We can still keep the big guns, Zach, JT, Sam, Pat.

So, it shouldn't be as bad as some people are making it seem to be. That is, of course, if Wannspiel sees it the way I do.
For the last time, Bowens and Marion signed new, cap-friendly contracts. Why are they on that list? Ed Perry isn't going anywhere, thats a guarantee. Gadsden, Edwards and Royals are free agents next season. Who does that leave? Rodgers might get asked. I know Ruddy is gone in the next season or two. I'm not sure about Perry or Dixon though. I'm not trying to be an *** scot, but do you know these players cap numbers or were you just assuming they had high figures??
 

Wyvern_Bob

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Both Dixon & Spriggs are free agents after this season so we'll need to make some decisions about the LT spot. Perry signed a 7.6 mill 5 year contract last year and will count 1.6 mill next year and I believe 1.2 mill if we released him
 

VanDolPhan

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Brock Marions base salaries are $650k, 800k, 1.6M, 1.5M, 2.5M. Hardly excessive till the last year. With approx $500,000 a year added for cap value since his signing bonus was between $2-3 million.

Bowens signed a 5 year $15 million contract with a $3 million signing bonus. He's got a 2 year cushion without having to worry about his contract with base salaries of 650k and 850k this year and next before things get out of hand.

Like I said before it's not the contracts we have right now that are the killers but the ones that we have to figure out for Williams/Chambers and still deal with being able to sign more then vet min contracts for those that are headed out over the next couple years.
 

scotgif

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Originally posted by BMarion31
I'm not trying to be an *** scot, but do you know these players cap numbers or were you just assuming they had high figures??
Not really, but I do know the players that I FEEL that Wannspiel will target as cap-casualty guys in the next year, or so.

Just look at this off-season. We got rid of many guys who were not really high dollar type guys, but just needed to move on, based on their performance AND money issues.

We let Bromell, Mixon, Walker, Goodwin, Falaou, Irwin, and DG all go. So, why not just assume that we will continue to make these types of moves next year, with more guys that need to move on.

I realize that they will have to renegotiate deals with RW, Zach, and others next year. So, obviously, they will need to free up some money to make this happen.

Not really rocket science, just common sense.
 

VanDolPhan

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Originally posted by scotgif

We let Bromell, Mixon, Walker, Goodwin, Falaou, Irwin, and DG all go. So, why not just assume that we will continue to make these types of moves next year, with more guys that need to move on.

I realize that they will have to renegotiate deals with RW, Zach, and others next year. So, obviously, they will need to free up some money to make this happen.

Not really rocket science, just common sense.
Well take a closer look at your list. Bromell/Mixon/Walker. All FA's who were offered very nice contracts that we couldn't match. Key word being though that they were "FA's". Falao there wasn't wanted back along with Goodwin. DG was cut for a lot more reasons then his salary #. Although cutting him this year will definately be a huge step in keeping a couple of our guys later on. Also by making a new deal with Zach we would save money for a few years because it would reduce his salary cap # next year from over $5 million and it would take a few years before the #'s get enourmous again. RW is signed through the 2007 season. He gets what he gets. If he doesn't then he just has to retire. I don't see the phins giving him a fat contract. His play this year will determine that though.

Next year's FA list is actually pretty small with Dixon/Konrad leading the way and I don't see either of them getting the :bling:
 

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Bottom line, Wanspiel have proven over and over again, that if they REALLY want to keep a player, they will do what is nessacary to do it.

They will continue to re-structure the players they want to keep, and get rid of the ones they don't.

To me, Brian Walker is one of the few guys that IMO they could have made a better effort at signing.

As for RW, I would be shocked if they did not redo his contract after this year, providing that he has a good year. Unless the team totally tanks it, and has a terrible season.
 

scotgif

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Originally posted by dolphan39
that leaves the big names intact on D :cool:
Yes, but we still will need to restructure many guys, so as not to be in the same bind the following year. You ideally would like to kind of stagger the time that player's contracts are up.

Better to have 3 or 4 guys to re-up in one year, than to have to deal with 7 or 8 guys each year.
 
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