Does A New GM and OC Matter Much? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Does A New GM and OC Matter Much?

ChambersWI said:
While we have weaknesses on offense a good scheme can hide some of those weaknesses. If a GM works well with the coaching staff it will put us in better situations personnel wise.

Example: Joe Philbin and his staff reportedly loved Lavonte David in the 2012 draft and asked Ireland to try to trade up to get him. Ireland said David was "too small"
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Sounds like something Parcells would say.
 
Heck yes. A new GM brings in the right talent to push the existing players to raise there game up. Some fresh ideas on offense will be awesome. Perhaps we can give the defense longer period of rests rather them staying on the field for the second halves of the game. It would be nice to score more touchdowns rather than settling for field goals at times. Bring it on!
 
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I'm hoping they can improve our W-L record in the east by three games. Do that and we win the division.
 
The OC could make a huge difference in the short term and the GM could make a huge difference in the long term. If they are both good and Tannehill takes another step up we've got ourselves a good football team.
 
I like the fact that my new hooker doesn't bite my wang like the last one.
 
A sharp general manager could make an enormous difference. This franchise has had a warped value system for so long that it's rubbed off onto the fans and somehow we've accepted it as proper thinking.

In three top ten picks over the past decade, we took a 5th year senior running back who redshirted in college and always split carries, a somewhat overaged quarterback who played wide receiver earlier and never excelled at quarterback while leading an underachieving team, and a skinny defensive end who was a part time player. That's not drafting. That's idiocy. You'll grind yourself toward broke with that type of philosophy. The early picks should be demonstrably great players, no questions asked. Then in later rounds the idea is to look for top talents who have been devalued late in their career for some reason, like injury or a coaching change. We do it in reverse, and then wonder why the happy adjustments at the top of round one don't fully pan out.

Rick Spielman panicked and traded a 4th to Minnesota to move up one spot. The Lamar Gordon trade is an all timer. He traded for a third string quarterback after bragging that he watched every one of Feeley's throws on tape. No kidding you had to watch every play to make any case that he was worth trading for. I'll be beyond thrilled when we find a general manager who understands the big picture and knows he doesn't need to watch every play.

I'll be the first to concede I don't know much about the candidates. But I would make sure to probe them on general matters, like the ones I mentioned above, to get a feel for their value system. It's imperative to make sure we don't align with another dummy who makes moves like the Reshad Jones contract. I would ask them questions not related to football at all, but ones designed to see if they understand that early indications are more significant than the latest trivia on tape. Any goof can overreact to the most recent news. That's why losing investors buy high and sell low. I would also make sure that the guy is well versed on other topics. I would ask about current events, or things like naming the senators in his home state. Lots of posters here tried to wave off Tannehill's ignorance of the division as meaningless. I couldn't disagree more. In more than two decades in Las Vegas I've met hundreds of guys who arrived on the sportsbook scene and had an opinion. I've had to explore if they had angles and opinions that could benefit me. Virtually without exception the guys who have unique perspective on sports betting are also very well rounded and interesting on other matters.

I'm not as convinced an offensive coordinator will make a dramatic difference. Obviously I hope for more emphasis on the running game but Philbin doesn't seem to think it matters. Tannehill has nice ball handling and stretch fakes so I think we need to make more use of that. Those type of plays can partially negate his lack of pocket presence.
 
Many think that Ireland and Sherman were the worst or, at least since Tuna and Henning were the worst. :) Yet, our team beat 4 playoff teams and were going to the playoffs until player meltdowns in the last two games. Who knows, with a win in our last game, we may have even beat Cinci. I can't fault Ireland and Sherman for those two games.

So, did our team get to that point in spite of the GM and OC, in which case they did not matter all that much or, were they not all that bad to get us to that point?

Some teams don't have the GM making final personnel decisions, and in a few cases co-coordinators don't call plays. It is not ancient history for QB's calling plays, and few knowing who the GM was.

Just a little something we were talking about before the game.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
A sharp general manager could make an enormous difference. This franchise has had a warped value system for so long that it's rubbed off onto the fans and somehow we've accepted it as proper thinking.

In three top ten picks over the past decade, we took a 5th year senior running back who redshirted in college and always split carries, a somewhat overaged quarterback who played wide receiver earlier and never excelled at quarterback while leading an underachieving team, and a skinny defensive end who was a part time player. That's not drafting. That's idiocy. You'll grind yourself toward broke with that type of philosophy. The early picks should be demonstrably great players, no questions asked. Then in later rounds the idea is to look for top talents who have been devalued late in their career for some reason, like injury or a coaching change. We do it in reverse, and then wonder why the happy adjustments at the top of round one don't fully pan out.

Rick Spielman panicked and traded a 4th to Minnesota to move up one spot. The Lamar Gordon trade is an all timer. He traded for a third string quarterback after bragging that he watched every one of Feeley's throws on tape. No kidding you had to watch every play to make any case that he was worth trading for. I'll be beyond thrilled when we find a general manager who understands the big picture and knows he doesn't need to watch every play.

I'll be the first to concede I don't know much about the candidates. But I would make sure to probe them on general matters, like the ones I mentioned above, to get a feel for their value system. It's imperative to make sure we don't align with another dummy who makes moves like the Reshad Jones contract. I would ask them questions not related to football at all, but ones designed to see if they understand that early indications are more significant than the latest trivia on tape. Any goof can overreact to the most recent news. That's why losing investors buy high and sell low. I would also make sure that the guy is well versed on other topics. I would ask about current events, or things like naming the senators in his home state. Lots of posters here tried to wave off Tannehill's ignorance of the division as meaningless. I couldn't disagree more. In more than two decades in Las Vegas I've met hundreds of guys who arrived on the sportsbook scene and had an opinion. I've had to explore if they had angles and opinions that could benefit me. Virtually without exception the guys who have unique perspective on sports betting are also very well rounded and interesting on other matters.

I'm not as convinced an offensive coordinator will make a dramatic difference. Obviously I hope for more emphasis on the running game but Philbin doesn't seem to think it matters. Tannehill has nice ball handling and stretch fakes so I think we need to make more use of that. Those type of plays can partially negate his lack of pocket presence.
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Well said AD. I have a different opinion in thinking that the drat, with few exceptions, is a whole lotta luck. If you are right half the time, you are doing well, sounds like a flip of the coin to me :) There are likely a million draft gurus dissecting picks in addition to team's scouting staff doing it for a living, etc. Most have all the same players rated as first round picks and half are right.

I agree with fits into the system as important but, the coaching staff know better than a GM on this, and they make many mistakes as well. Phans know a hell of a lot more than years ago but, do they know more than teams on draft picks or, just get lucky?
 
ChambersWI said:
While we have weaknesses on offense a good scheme can hide some of those weaknesses. If a GM works well with the coaching staff it will put us in better situations personnel wise.

Example: Joe Philbin and his staff reportedly loved Lavonte David in the 2012 draft and asked Ireland to try to trade up to get him. Ireland said David was "too small"
Click to expand...

Show me the link that says Philbin asked Jeff Ireland for ANY specific players in the draft. I have no idea where some of this Philbin stuff is coming from. In any case, Lavonte is a linebacker. One linebacker is not going to help Joe Philbin's offense score more than 7 points in two games.

I agree with your statement that a scheme should be used to utilize your players assets and minimize their faults. Absolutely. I don't think Philbin/Sherman did that the past two years. They failed.

A new GM will get this franchise back on track. But that's long term. Short term tells me that Philbin has one year to make this team significantly better. So that means we're looking at Tannehill stepping up and being the franchise QB he needs to be and at the same time our running game improving. If those 2 things don't happen, it's going to be bad.

The quickest thing anybody can do to help their run game is draft a star RB. But since there aren't any in the 2014 draft, get one in free agency. Blount has been mentioned. Knowshon Moreno will be available, maybe Ben Tate. Then obviously we need O linemen, in FA and the draft. Those moves alone can be tremendous for us, with the right scheme and new OC. The next quickest thing could be to draft a weapon for Tannehill.

A lot can be done in one offseason. We just need a GM and OC to come in here and do it, and save Philbin's butt.
 
HoneyB said:
Show me the link that says Philbin asked Jeff Ireland for ANY specific players in the draft. I have no idea where some of this Philbin stuff is coming from. In any case, Lavonte is a linebacker. One linebacker is not going to help Joe Philbin's offense score more than 7 points in two games.

I agree with your statement that a scheme should be used to utilize your players assets and minimize their faults. Absolutely. I don't think Philbin/Sherman did that the past two years. They failed.

A new GM will get this franchise back on track. But that's long term. Short term tells me that Philbin has one year to make this team significantly better. So that means we're looking at Tannehill stepping up and being the franchise QB he needs to be and at the same time our running game improving. If those 2 things don't happen, it's going to be bad.

The quickest thing anybody can do to help their run game is draft a star RB. But since there aren't any in the 2014 draft, get one in free agency. Blount has been mentioned. Knowshon Moreno will be available, maybe Ben Tate. Then obviously we need O linemen, in FA and the draft. Those moves alone can be tremendous for us, with the right scheme and new OC. The next quickest thing could be to draft a weapon for Tannehill.

A lot can be done in one offseason. We just need a GM and OC to come in here and do it, and save Philbin's butt.
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One I know of was Ireland asking Philbin and coaches if there was one player you would want in the draft (last year) who would it be? They all agreed on Jordan. True story.
 
Southbeach 2 said:
Many think that Ireland and Sherman were the worst or, at least since Tuna and Henning were the worst. :) Yet, our team beat 4 playoff teams and were going to the playoffs until player meltdowns in the last two games. Who knows, with a win in our last game, we may have even beat Cinci. I can't fault Ireland and Sherman for those two games.

So, did our team get to that point in spite of the GM and OC, in which case they did not matter all that much or, were they not all that bad to get us to that point?

Some teams don't have the GM making final personnel decisions, and in a few cases co-coordinators don't call plays. It is not ancient history for QB's calling plays, and few knowing who the GM was.

Just a little something we were talking about before the game.
Click to expand...

Ireland may have gotten lucky with Tannehill. The team may have gotten extremely lucky with Philbin. Two of the key ingredients needed to be a good football team. IMO the only thing that kept us from being a good football team this season was the fact that our offense was severely neglected monetarily, to the tune of second to last in the league. Add a Brandon Albert at $10 million a year or a Reggie Bush + Eric Winston at $5 million each and we're at the league average both in money spent on offense and in remaining cap space.

Ireland (inexplicably to me) pinched pennies sacrificing a real opportunity at the playoffs this season, it blows my mind a NFL GM could think that was sound strategy.

Like Awsi, I know very little about the GM candidates and I don't care to spend an ounce of my energy scouting them, but in addition to the things he mentioned I would make sure he has a mind for good strategy. Ireland clearly does not.
 
roy_miami said:
Ireland may have gotten lucky with Tannehill. The team may have gotten extremely lucky with Philbin. Two of the key ingredients needed to be a good football team. IMO the only thing that kept us from being a good football team this season was the fact that our offense was severely neglected monetarily, to the tune of second to last in the league. Add a Brandon Albert at $10 million a year or a Reggie Bush + Eric Winston at $5 million each and we're at the league average both in money spent on offense and in remaining cap space.

Ireland (inexplicably to me) pinched pennies sacrificing a real opportunity at the playoffs this season, it blows my mind a NFL GM could think that was sound strategy.

Like Awsi, I know very little about the GM candidates and I don't care to spend an ounce of my energy scouting them, but in addition to the things he mentioned I would make sure he has a mind for good strategy. Ireland clearly does not.
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Albert would have made a difference but. Winston had a horrible year, worse than what we had.
 
ChambersWI said:
While we have weaknesses on offense a good scheme can hide some of those weaknesses. If a GM works well with the coaching staff it will put us in better situations personnel wise.

Example: Joe Philbin and his staff reportedly loved Lavonte David in the 2012 draft and asked Ireland to try to trade up to get him. Ireland said David was "too small"
Click to expand...

Wow, interesting if true...

Where is the link backing up your claim. Don't want to be accused of making stuff up like they do Armando... Just say-in'
 
Yes.

A new GM might actually fix this OL. He might even do so without creating 2 new holes.
 
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