Dolphins and Miami-Dade close to deal for stadium renovation | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins and Miami-Dade close to deal for stadium renovation

The NFL should be much more selective of its owners. Ross has no clue. There should also be an age restriction - so that you don't get some myopic goof scrambling to cross off items from his bucket list.

"Dear diary,

Must host SB before am dEd. Commish says need better stadium. Might be am dEd before new stadium is bilt. Must renovate."
 
Looking at the renovations has me a tad concerned about the wind currents and overall comfort level of the fans. It looks like a hot box to me. Ross is in a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation. I am with Walrus and others who prefer a new stadium. Do it right or don't do it at all.
 
Awful news. 20 more yrs of 8 road games and 8 neutral site games.
 
wow, a couple of real doom and gloom posts in this one. I can't help but agree with most of it too,

sadly when we are dealt cards we must play the hand. I am young and may see another stadium in my lifetime, but in the meantime I can only hope a winning team can cure a "not so ideal" stadium and location. Creating a homefield advantage seems more connected to winning and gaining fan dedication than stadium location, but I'm sure there are solid arguments both ways,....
 
Pulling out a few rows of seats I think is more a ploy to gain public support from hard core fans looking for a competitive edge when the net result will probably be nil. I mean it's a band aid. The fans will not suddenly be on top of the players like they were in the Orange Bowl. There's really not much to see here in terms of improving home field advantage, dare I say zero.

It would be great if we could get a stadium like they have in Seattle that is designed specifically to keep noise in. The fans feel like they are on top of the players. Indianapolis, which is a medium sized city, somehow managed to build a state of the art beautiful stadium. Indianapolis doesn't have any of the tourism revenue opportunities that Miami has. Yet Miami can't get anything done.
 
Austin Tatious said:
Pulling out a few rows of seats I think is more a ploy to gain public support from hard core fans looking for a competitive edge when the net result will probably be nil. I mean it's a band aid. The fans will not suddenly be on top of the players like they were in the Orange Bowl. There's really not much to see here in terms of improving home field advantage, dare I say zero.

It would be great if we could get a stadium like they have in Seattle that is designed specifically to keep noise in. The fans feel like they are on top of the players. Indianapolis, which is a medium sized city, somehow managed to build a state of the art beautiful stadium. Indianapolis doesn't have any of the tourism revenue opportunities that Miami has. Yet Miami can't get anything done.
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Helpful in answering your question. Although the numbers are several years old and don't include the sweetheart deals Arthur Blank and ultimately Ziggy Wilf exacted, still, this is an enlightening site to put the struggles Ross is having into a perspective vs other multi millionaires and billionaires who taxpayers seem to have no problem giving a free ride. And of course even back in the day, hypocrite Norman Braman tried to rape the city of Philly for a new free stadium before he sold the Eagles.. so there's that "do as I say, not as I do" also :idk:


http://blogs.mprnews.org/newscut/2010/05/cleveland_browns_1999_stadium/
Cost: $720 million

Percentage of public financing: 86%

Marion County hotel tax increases to 9 percent from 6 percent. This is on top of the 6 percent state sales tax. Marion County car rental tax doubled to 4 percent. The county doubled its food and beverage tax, to 2 percent. Neighboring suburban counties implemented 1 percent restaurant taxes. A surcharge on tickets was increased by 1 percent.
Indianapolis Colts

Cost: $720 million

Percentage of public financing: 86%

Marion County hotel tax increases to 9 percent from 6 percent. This is on top of the 6 percent state sales tax. Marion County car rental tax doubled to 4 percent. The county doubled its food and beverage tax, to 2 percent. Neighboring suburban counties implemented 1 percent restaurant taxes. A surcharge on tickets was increased by 1 percent.
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I wonder what a hurricane would do to that canopy. It doesn't look too hurricane proof to me.

And them how much would the repairs cost?


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if ross could get the taxpayers to foot the whole bill he would, but the political landscape is different now and thank goodness. Superbowls will never be given out at the same frequency they were before because the other cities don't want to be shut out for their efforts
 
First thing is first, there will never be a 70,000 seat football stadium in downtown Miami/Fort Lauderdale or on the water. Stupid expensive and logistically speaking it just won't work. Public Transportation is still below other major downtown areas and just thinking about the traffic/parking right now is making my head hurt. It will prove challenging enough for Beckham to fund a 20,000 seat stadium in these areas . . . 70,000 is laughable.

So what does that leave? As much flak as the location gets, SunLife is in a great location for a football stadium, logistically. The stadium is just in terrible shape and the surrounding area leaves a lot to be desired. If you are dumping big money into renovations, you also need to dump money into building up the surrounding area some.

In all seriousness, the other "no brainer" location in South Florida is near the Sawgrass Mills / BB&T Center (Panthers arena). Logistically, the location is top notch with the Sawgrass Expressway / 595 / 75 all right there which gives easy access to I95/Turnpike and people from Miami, Broward, Palm Beach AND even Naples/Fort Myers. On top of that, you are next door to the world's largest Outlet Mall so the surrounding area is a perfect draw for families who after the game want to get something to eat or do a little shopping. Davie training camp only 10 miles away also.

They just built an express lane on 595, which they could definitely utilize on game days to help with any highway traffic.

Sure you aren't next to the water/downtown but the area is built up and their is enough room to make it happen. Big obstacle here is Broward County . . . good luck getting them to help with much of anything. But if Ross is going to dump most of his own money into the stadium, you'd atleast have to pitch the idea to Broward.

Sure you wouldn't technically be in Miami, but the 49ers new stadium is 44 miles from the city center, this location would only be 22 miles from Sunlife and 35 from Miami City Center. Easy enough for 8 home games. Public transportation not great but this is a "car area" period.

I'd like to see Ross explore this location before dumping money into renovations.
 
Vaark, thanks for the links. They are enlightening. Indy spent $720 M on Lucas Oil. I think as Walrus astutely pointed out, if we look back in 30 years, we will think the better investment would have been building fresh now for something akin to that $720 M instead of that $420 M upgrade. Miami is a great city that is a an awesome football town despite how people want to denigrate it. There are plenty of die hard football people. I mean, look at the football talent that comes out of South Florida every freaking year. It is the best recruiting hotbed in the country, bar none. Those players are not just popping up out of thin air for no reason; there is a correlation to Miami being a phenomenal football town. Interest, coaching, fundamentals, etc. The Miami Dolphins are not maximizing this vast potential. It's ridiculous, actually, to think that Miami is this football hotbed, and then every week our home football team's games are 40% full of fans from out of town.

Sun Life didn't work out. It just didn't. Bless Joe Robbie's heart. Miami is a great football town and he did the completely wrong to not take advantage of revving up the fan base.

I just can't get over watching Monday night games at the Orange Bowl games and how loud it got. Remembering Ron Jaworski asking the refs for help because he couldn't get the line calls out because it was so insanely loud. It's hard to believe. Now, there is this misperception that Miami is a bad NFL town or whatever and I just don't buy it. And Dolphin fans suffer with poor competitive advantage and then you see what a team like Seattle gets. It's absurd.

Anyway, my point is, can't we take the $400, find some financing and creativity and work this out? Get a stadium near downtown. Look at Seattle's design. Get the fans on top of the field; keep the noise in. Get the energy as you walk into the stadium like Walrus talks about. Miami is a football town. Boston or NYC or places like that don't hold a candle to producing football talent or coaching or playing football. Miami is football. That's the feeling opponents should get, that nauseating feeling of "oh, crap, we've got to go into Miami."
 
Regulus said:
Awful news. 20 more yrs of 8 road games and 8 neutral site games.
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The 8 neutral site game feeling has nothing to do with the stadium's age, location, size, distance from the ocean, how many bars are near the stadium, number of handicap parking spaces, etc. Building a new stadium isn't going to take away the 20,000 Patriot fans that go to the game when New England is in town. I have been told repeatedly over the years that winning and only winning will return home field advantage to Dolphins' home games. Now that a return to winning is closer than it has been in quite awhile, it seems that winning will not cure it, but a new stadium will. Seems like another excuse to me......

roy_miami said:
When would the renos be done by, this season or next?
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I read about a month ago that it would be completed in two phases. The first phase by the start of the 2015 season and the second by the 2016 season.
 
Kdawg954 said:
First thing is first, there will never be a 70,000 seat football stadium in downtown Miami/Fort Lauderdale or on the water. Stupid expensive and logistically speaking it just won't work. Public Transportation is still below other major downtown areas and just thinking about the traffic/parking right now is making my head hurt. It will prove challenging enough for Beckham to fund a 20,000 seat stadium in these areas . . . 70,000 is laughable.

So what does that leave? As much flak as the location gets, SunLife is in a great location for a football stadium, logistically. The stadium is just in terrible shape and the surrounding area leaves a lot to be desired. If you are dumping big money into renovations, you also need to dump money into building up the surrounding area some.

In all seriousness, the other "no brainer" location in South Florida is near the Sawgrass Mills / BB&T Center (Panthers arena). Logistically, the location is top notch with the Sawgrass Expressway / 595 / 75 all right there which gives easy access to I95/Turnpike and people from Miami, Broward, Palm Beach AND even Naples/Fort Myers. On top of that, you are next door to the world's largest Outlet Mall so the surrounding area is a perfect draw for families who after the game want to get something to eat or do a little shopping. Davie training camp only 10 miles away also.

They just built an express lane on 595, which they could definitely utilize on game days to help with any highway traffic.

Sure you aren't next to the water/downtown but the area is built up and their is enough room to make it happen. Big obstacle here is Broward County . . . good luck getting them to help with much of anything. But if Ross is going to dump most of his own money into the stadium, you'd atleast have to pitch the idea to Broward.

Sure you wouldn't technically be in Miami, but the 49ers new stadium is 44 miles from the city center, this location would only be 22 miles from Sunlife and 35 from Miami City Center. Easy enough for 8 home games. Public transportation not great but this is a "car area" period.

I'd like to see Ross explore this location before dumping money into renovations.
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Excellent analysis by IMO one of the best and most unsung FH members.

Taking that even further, I'm an advocate of heading north into the western Everglades fringes of central Palm Beach County. Case in point, a few years ago, the area around SR7 (441) and Atlantic was slated for major multi use residential and commercial development prior to the housing bubble bursting. When I went up there to look at the plans for a new community, I was taken that only a few minutes west of the turnpike (importantly) , and away from bustling central Delray Beach, it was like being in the country between all the nurseries, farms and undeveloped land. Plenty of room to roam.

And what's more, the fanbase demographics have largely shifted up that way. Is there anyone who doesn't know folks now living in west Boynton who because of Andrew and natural population shifts over time didn't at one time live proximate to Joe Robbie in Miami or Broward?

My belief is that Miami Dade, Broward, Collier (Keys) and Lee County diehard fans will not be offput by having to drive a 30-60mins further to get to a new stadium (and actually for some,less than they're driving now). So we can retain the faithful fanbase, or what's left of it but at the same time make attending games easier for our Palm Beach, Jupiter up to and through Cocoa Beach (and a special nod to Daytona Fin fan also) fans who will help fill those seats because they'll be enthusiastic about the new opportunity and for several years more taken by the novelty and less jaundiced by our recent history of mediocrity.

Beyond that, a somewhat out of the way un-touristy, inconvenient location will be a logistical deterrent to reach for many of the competing team fans who combine vacation time with their team's playing - also stacking the deck in a partisan crowd's favor.

The fact of the matter is, this is not Miami's team exclusively. This is a South and Central Florida fanbase and Joe Robbie, unlike when it was built, is now only conveniently accessible to only part of that fanbase. Look at Foxboro, it's 40 miles out; It's not a unique idea as evidenced by the NY Jets/Giants in East Rutherford NJ, the Wash Redskins in Landover Md, the Dallas Cowboys in Arlington, the Buff Bills in Orchard Park, the Phoenix Cards in Glendale and of course pointedly the SF 49ers now way down in Santa Clara. (45 miles and a lot further for the affluent fanbase segment north in Marin County).

 
I would like to hear from season ticket holders. The only issues I have is the baking sun for September through November home games I try to go to two games a year. And yes nublar winning is the key. The place was filled with bill fans in the 80s how many will be there this year after they watched their team knock us out of the play offs.
 
I wish the BB&T center would happen but it wont, like you said Broward County will not get on board. We are left with this until Ross is no longer the owner and a new owner wont put enough money in to appease everyone to get a new stadium built unfortunately. We are left with the hopes of winning will create a better home field advantage, but will it be enough?
 
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