Dolphins have 'expectation of mastery' for quarterback Tua Tagovailoa

[Springveldt]

He’s won the division five straight years so I think his ratings against the pats and jets are largely irrelevant.

And he’s whooped the hell out of our ass for those 5 years straight.

I’m all about the importance of a difference making mike lb but that’s a speed bump for Josh Allen.

Frankly we don’t have any answer and neither does the rest of the division as long as he stays healthy any time soon.

"He's" won the division 5 years straight because the other teams are weaker at nearly every position, including QB.

I'd argue it's pretty relevant if Miami can make him have some games against them like the ones he's had against New England in the last 2 seasons.

16/29 154 yards 1 TD 1 int - 6 rushes 30 yards 0 TD (won 24-21) passer rating 67.3
15/30 169 0 TD 1 int - 11 for 44 2 TD's (won 27-21) passer rating 53.3
27/41 265 2 TD's 1 int - 7 for 17 1 TD (Lost 25-29) passer rating 90.0

If Miami can hold him to games like that then it would give them a much better chance of winning. Last 2 seasons against Miami

25/39 235 3 TD's 1 int - 2 for 7 0 TD (won 30-27) passer rating 95.6
13/19 139 1 TD 0 int - 2 for 2 0 TD (won 31-10) passer rating 107.1
30/38 359 2 TD's 2 Ints - 15 for 67 0 TD (won 21-14) passer rating 101.6
21/25 320 4 TD's 0 Int - 4 for 17 1 TD (won 48-20) passer rating 158.3

His worst game against Miami is better than his best game against New England in the last 2 seasons. It's a massive problem, Miami doesn't know how to defend the guy and New England do a much, much better job at defending him. They are limiting him through the air and limiting Buffalo to between 24-29 points while not having any sort of offense to limit possessions. Meanwhile they are scoring over 30 or more against Miami in 3 of the 4 games.

 

[Sticky Gloves]

Not *A* scheme. If the D negates timing, use conventional. If the D negates middle of the field, use sidelines. My point - if Mcd only uses timing, he's inept. No O can survive with one scheme

I think he's limited in the plays he can call. For example, Tua isn't very good at throwing to the sidelines.

 

[AMakados10]

I didn’t respond to this thread for a while.

McD shouldn’t point to “expectations of mastery” for a player when he certainly doesn’t have mastery of HC down imo.

 

[lynx]

"He's" won the division 5 years straight because the other teams are weaker at nearly every position, including QB.

I'd argue it's pretty relevant if Miami can make him have some games against them like the ones he's had against New England in the last 2 seasons.

16/29 154 yards 1 TD 1 int - 6 rushes 30 yards 0 TD (won 24-21) passer rating 67.3
15/30 169 0 TD 1 int - 11 for 44 2 TD's (won 27-21) passer rating 53.3
27/41 265 2 TD's 1 int - 7 for 17 1 TD (Lost 25-29) passer rating 90.0

If Miami can hold him to games like that then it would give them a much better chance of winning. Last 2 seasons against Miami

25/39 235 3 TD's 1 int - 2 for 7 0 TD (won 30-27) passer rating 95.6
13/19 139 1 TD 0 int - 2 for 2 0 TD (won 31-10) passer rating 107.1
30/38 359 2 TD's 2 Ints - 15 for 67 0 TD (won 21-14) passer rating 101.6
21/25 320 4 TD's 0 Int - 4 for 17 1 TD (won 48-20) passer rating 158.3

His worst game against Miami is better than his best game against New England in the last 2 seasons. It's a massive problem, Miami doesn't know how to defend the guy and New England do a much, much better job at defending him. They are limiting him through the air and limiting Buffalo to between 24-29 points while not having any sort of offense to limit possessions. Meanwhile they are scoring over 30 or more against Miami in 3 of the 4 games.

Josh Allen's greatest QB trait is the ability to run while being tough as nails while doing it.

Once that disappears though, Allen is going to become a really average QB, all we have to do is look at the middle of 2023 to know what's coming. The OC took away the run (cost him his job) and the QB tanked. He's nothing special without that scrambling ability. Remember he led the league in turnovers in 2022 and was second in 2023.

Until he loses that ability to run though, he's going to be tough to beat.

 

[GhostofJeffIreland]

Josh Allen's greatest QB trait is the ability to run while being tough as nails while doing it.

Once that disappears though, Allen is going to become a really average QB, all we have to do is look at the middle of 2023 to know what's coming. The OC took away the run (cost him his job) and the QB tanked. He's nothing special without that scrambling ability. Remember he led the league in turnovers in 2022 and was second in 2023.

Until he loses that ability to run though, he's going to be tough to beat.

I think one of Tua's biggest flaws is his speed, he's slow AF.

That was fine 10-15 years ago, but the league has evolved and the pure pocket passer is a dying breed.

How many pure pocket passers are left in todays game, and play at a high level, let alone elite?

I can't think of a single one. Maybe Joe Burrow, but even Burrow is probably a slightly better athlete than Tua which is really sad. And with Tua's concussion and hip issues every time he runs you have to hold your breath.

Edit: Matt Stafford. That's the last one. Only works due to HoF level arm talent, and he's almost finished anyway.

I'm rooting for Tua against all odds, because all odds are against him.

 

[Nappy Roots]

I think one of Tua's biggest flaws is his speed, he's slow AF.

That was fine 10-15 years ago, but the league has evolved and the pure pocket passer is a dying breed.

How many pure pocket passers are left in todays game, and play at a high level, let alone elite?

I can't think of a single one. Maybe Joe Burrow, but even Burrow is probably a slightly better athlete than Tua which is really sad. And with Tua's concussion and hip issues every time he runs you have to hold your breath.

Edit: Matt Stafford. That's the last one. Only works due to HoF level arm talent, and he's almost finished anyway.

I'm rooting for Tua against all odds, because all odds are against him.

It works still in today's game with pre snap reads and ability to check out of plays. In this offense both are really tough because of the time allotted.

 

[The Captain]

Allen is not the same qb at all. At least comp him with apples to apples

Okay then, over his career Tom Brady had nine Super Bowl appearances and seven victories, while about halfway through his NFL career, Patrick Mahomes presently has five appearances and three victories, as compared to...Let me think, what are Josh Allen's current Super Bowl totals??

 

[GRYPHONK]

And these same people ignore how other QB’s play in similar positions. Josh Allen is 0-4 away in the playoffs. Jackson is 1-2 in away games, 3-5 over all, in the playoffs. P. Manning was 2-5 in away playoff games. Marino was 1-6. Brees was 1-4.

Expected response:::: how dare you compare Tua to those greats. Even if the exact thing they are criticizing Tua for was a similar issue for HOF QBS.

How dare you!!

I have said it before. Many hold Tua to ridiculous standards no other QB is held to. Doesn't matter if elite QBS, HOF etc. had similar issues or numbers in similar situations. Tua is expected to be diferrent.

 

[GRYPHONK]

Josh Allen is a different kind of qb from Mahomes.

Folks struggle to tackle Josh Allen he runs by second levels of defenses like they are standing still.

He don’t care about what’s in front of him on the oline.

Or what’s at skill anymore either. He’s beyond that. Which is bad news for the rest of us lol

We really don't know though

Until we see Allen behind an O line missing 3 starters for 5,+ games, we cant honestly say if he cares or not

 

[zullo1]

I think he's limited in the plays he can call. For example, Tua isn't very good at throwing to the sidelines.

He is definitely limited. The NFL knows he doesn't have the arm strength for the deep out.

 

[djphinfan]

I think one of Tua's biggest flaws is his speed, he's slow AF.

That was fine 10-15 years ago, but the league has evolved and the pure pocket passer is a dying breed.

How many pure pocket passers are left in todays game, and play at a high level, let alone elite?

I can't think of a single one. Maybe Joe Burrow, but even Burrow is probably a slightly better athlete than Tua which is really sad. And with Tua's concussion and hip issues every time he runs you have to hold your breath.

Edit: Matt Stafford. That's the last one. Only works due to HoF level arm talent, and he's almost finished anyway.

I'm rooting for Tua against all odds, because all odds are against him.

I like Jared Goff I think he’s a fine qb.

 

[Finsup1981]

This is my biggest concern, as I'm sure it is everyone elses, we gotta figure out this inury thing and how to avoid it better...Tuas brain just shuts off for some reason in the game though and he ends up going full retard

 

[lynx]

I think one of Tua's biggest flaws is his speed, he's slow AF.

That was fine 10-15 years ago, but the league has evolved and the pure pocket passer is a dying breed.

How many pure pocket passers are left in todays game, and play at a high level, let alone elite?

I can't think of a single one. Maybe Joe Burrow, but even Burrow is probably a slightly better athlete than Tua which is really sad. And with Tua's concussion and hip issues every time he runs you have to hold your breath.

Edit: Matt Stafford. That's the last one. Only works due to HoF level arm talent, and he's almost finished anyway.

I'm rooting for Tua against all odds, because all odds are against him.

I think Tua has the ability to scramble when needed. Is he fast? Hell no, but might be enough to get by. He just needs to be smart about it, he's already talked about that during this OTA's, has he learned to keep himself out of danger? Who knows, I'll believe it when I see it

 

[GhostofJeffIreland]

I like Jared Goff I think he’s a fine qb.

Good point, I forgot about him. God was he awful in the playoffs last year though. To me it’s no surprise the Rams won it all as soon as they got rid of him. Nice player, but nothing special.

 

[GhostofJeffIreland]

I think Tua has the ability to scramble when needed. Is he fast? Hell no, but might be enough to get by. He just needs to be smart about it, he's already talked about that during this OTA's, has he learned to keep himself out of danger? Who knows, I'll believe it when I see it

He can scramble a little bit, but overall he’s just so physically underwhelming, like Bryce Young for example that it’s hard to overcome at this level.

The game has changed. Speed used to be an added asset for QBs. Now days, not having speed is a liability imo.

All 5 QBs drafted in the top 12 last year were fast, that’s the direction this game is moving.