Dolphins have 'expectation of mastery' for quarterback Tua Tagovailoa

[Finsup1981]

Your post is mostly correct, but I can’t believe that people are still using the “he can’t throw a deep out” mantra. That’s been proven wrong so many times. Tua’s arm is average for an NFL QB. But he’s an NFL QB and can make all the throws needed by an NFL QB.

He certainly can make them it’s just not his best throw and he doesn’t have the arm strength to rip it in there like Josh Allen or Herbert etc

He can absolutely make every throw in the playbook but there’s passes I’d prefer he minimizes, replaced by passes that are his bread and butter, like any timing based throw or anything that requires touch because he’s fantastic at layering his throws with accuracy, possibly the best in the league. So i would just prefer if we limit the amount of deep outs and other throws that’s hes not great at because of the average arm strength.

I know we we have to have them in the playbook so the defense has to at least respect the sidelines but I just don’t want him throwing deep outs at MetLife with those wind gusts. I should’ve made that clearer in my original reply, I just meant he’s not a person who’s consistently going to threaten the sidelines but he certainly can.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

We did adjust last year with the short passing game and targeting Jonnu and Achane instead of force feeding Reek and Waddle all game. After Jackson got hurt, our lack of a running game was the real issue and why we could still be defended because teams didn’t have to respect our run game at all.

The counter to a cover 2 shell is running the ball because of the light box, if we get a solid consistent running game to complement the short passing attack we installed last year then that will open up the rest of the field and we’ll start seeing the chunk plays again.

You are correct though that because of Tuas limitations the defense doesn’t have to cover the entire field, they can overload the middle and cover the timing windows we love because Tuas arm can’t threaten the sidelines with deep outs etc.

A strong running game will allow us to maximize Tuas potential, he will still be limited with the throws he can make but it’s the key to unlocking this offense imo

don't disagree, but, IMO, it's one thing to look for the 1st and/or 2nd read and pass to the TE/RB. It's another to adjust the scheme to target the TE 1st, or target the #3WR 1st. We've all seen a LB consistently on Achane and Mcd nor TT take advantage. We've all seen a backup #3CB covering MW and that matchup ignored. That is my concern about scheme. Mcd seems to be 'timing only with Waddle or TH as 1st read.' If that doesn't change based on the D, he's limiting the O.
I agree, a good (average) run game will help, but his passing scheme seems to be 'same every game - no need to change much.'

 

[Finsup1981]

don't disagree, but, IMO, it's one thing to look for the 1st and/or 2nd read and pass to the TE/RB. It's another to adjust the scheme to target the TE 1st, or target the #3WR 1st. We've all seen a LB consistently on Achane and Mcd nor TT take advantage. We've all seen a backup #3CB covering MW and that matchup ignored. That is my concern about scheme. Mcd seems to be 'timing only with Waddle or TH as 1st read.' If that doesn't change based on the D, he's limiting the O.
I agree, a good (average) run game will help, but his passing scheme seems to be 'same every game - no need to change much.'

This I can totally agree with, there were so many times on the All-22 guys were running wide open but either due to the play call or Tua not having enough time to go thru his progressions etc they never got targeted. Malik Washington and even OBJ for example were open a lot of the time and Tua never looked their way for one reason or another. So that needs to be corrected by either giving Tua enough time to go thru his progressions or actually adjusting his scheme like you mentioned to take advantage of the matchups and what the defenses are giving us.

 

[djphinfan]

Unproven theory, and he’s had his chances. He really sucked last year when they needed him most. Might just be a product of his environment but we’ll see in due time.

Even if he is successful I still say he’s an anomaly. The game is moving towards fast QBs and that’s what I want moving forward.

I don’t think he sucked at all, “a product of his environment” I’m not sure what that means

A lot of folks will be wrong again about him and Campbell, like they’ve been about both. Especially Campbell

 

[danmarino7051]

I don’t think he sucked at all, “a product of his environment” I’m not sure what that means

A lot of folks will be wrong again about him and Campbell, like they’ve been about both. Especially Campbell

Goff? Didn’t he throw 3 INT’s and have a 50-something passer rating in that game?

 

[hoops]

We did adjust last year with the short passing game and targeting Jonnu and Achane instead of force feeding Reek and Waddle all game. After Jackson got hurt, our lack of a running game was the real issue and why we could still be defended because teams didn’t have to respect our run game at all.

The counter to a cover 2 shell is running the ball because of the light box, if we get a solid consistent running game to complement the short passing attack we installed last year then that will open up the rest of the field and we’ll start seeing the chunk plays again.

You are correct though that because of Tuas limitations the defense doesn’t have to cover the entire field, they can overload the middle and cover the timing windows we love because Tuas arm can’t threaten the sidelines consistently with deep outs etc.

A strong running game will allow us to maximize Tuas potential, he will still be limited with the throws he can make but it’s the key to unlocking this offense imo

Yeah the difference between you and I is I don’t think this oline is gonna be enough of a difference maker.

Sure the schedule may help and be a bit of an offset but that’s where we get back to pretender vs contender in the grand scheme of things.

 

[GhostofJeffIreland]

I don’t think he sucked at all, “a product of his environment” I’m not sure what that means

A lot of folks will be wrong again about him and Campbell, like they’ve been about both. Especially Campbell

It means the Lions were stacked last year, and a lot of QBs would have been successful with that much talent around them. But when needed most and without all that talent due to injuries, he played his worst game of the season. Not what you’re looking for from your newly signed, 30 year old QB. Goff has a lot to prove in 2025 because last years playoff game was embarrassing. He might be holding them back. That’s certainly how McVay felt and he has the ring to prove it.

 

[hoops]

I ain’t much on Goff either. He’s a play action passing game based qb.

Hide his warts off pa. That window is closing on the lions soon. They better hurry up and get one. Cause it’s coming

 

[Avigatorx]

Agree. There are 3 types of scramblers.
Type 1 - those who can't
Type 2 - those who can get get out of trouble and get a needed 1D. TT can do that. at times it seems he's under orders to NOT scramble. He'll see open space, take a step forward and stop. His problem is, get the 1D but if a defender gets within 10yds, he won't slide.
Type 3 - JA and LJ. Yeah, I'd love to have a QB like that, just like everyone on FH. TT isn't that guy.

Not me. I don't want a type 3, run around QB. It's like watching a T-ball game, 1 kid running around the field.

Give me a Phalanx turret that can launch the ball all over the field.

 

[djphinfan]

It means the Lions were stacked last year, and a lot of QBs would have been successful with that much talent around them. But when needed most and without all that talent due to injuries, he played his worst game of the season. Not what you’re looking for from your newly signed, 30 year old QB. Goff has a lot to prove in 2025 because last years playoff game was embarrassing. He might be holding them back. That’s certainly how McVay felt and he has the ring to prove it.

I never look at one game in a box, body of work is good and I think Cambell show they it wasn’t about the coordinator

 

[hoops]

give me pocket progression read it’s the gold standard at qb. Withstands the test of time. And you don’t have to worry about shelf life as much cause they aren’t as dependent on their legs.

Unfortunately the college game is weeding those types out same for all the college concepts that have taken over the pro game. Making it largely you got it qb for dummies league.

 

[Finsup1981]

Yeah the difference between you and I is I don’t think this oline is gonna be enough of a difference maker.

Sure the schedule may help and be a bit of an offset but that’s where we get back to pretender vs contender in the grand scheme of things.

I think they only are a difference maker as long as it’s the starters…the second we have to rely on Eich or Borom is the second the wheels come off and I lose all faith in the oline. We are balancing on a knife’s edge with this depth and I think it’s a matter of time before it comes crashing down.

No way I have faith in this line to stay healthy for all 17 games, so I fully expect a year of Tua playing 12 games or less, we get about half the season with the starting oline and the rest of the games we’ll have at least one backup in.

If I had to bet I’d say 7-10, a winning record in the games Tua plays and we win squeak out one win when he’s out, then December we have a bit of hope left only to be crushed in emphatic fashion on the road in the cold, probably in prime time so the world can join in on our misery. They need to change the narrative before I can put any faith in these guys, until then it’s just a bunch of empty words and false promises.

Then we will use the excuse of being hurt to give Grier/McDaniel/Tua trio one more shot in 2026, and then after we fail that year Ross finally blows it up.

I hope I’m wrong on all counts and we win the Super Bowl and I will gladly eat my crow pie.

 

[hoops]

I think even if it’s all plan a oline 17 games they fixin to be at best decent.

Not carrying anything. Like I see no way that I’m half way into this season saying this oline is playing plus grade football.

But to each his own. Y’all definitely higher on Paul and the 2nd rounder than I am.

 

[Mach2]

Not *A* scheme. If the D negates timing, use conventional. If the D negates middle of the field, use sidelines. My point - if Mcd only uses timing, he's inept. No O can survive with one scheme

I think the "sidelines" option is where there's a distinct limitation.

With Tua, sideline throws still have to be timing to a certain extent, with less room for error.

Now, if he can set up his foundation, step into it and drive the ball with perfect mechanics, not a huge issue. When he can't, he isn't beating coverage and it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Not saying you can't "work around" that reality, but it's silly to dismiss it with a hand wave as some do.

JMO....

 

[Finsup1981]

I think even if it’s all plan a oline 17 games they fixin to be at best decent.

Not carrying anything. Like I see no way that I’m half way into this season saying this oline is playing plus grade football.

But to each his own. Y’all definitely higher on Paul and the 2nd rounder than I am.

With Savaiinaea it’s also a lot of relief knowing he’ll be playing instead of Eich or Borom, so I’m almost as excited about who they are replacing than the actual player.

I wasn’t a fan of Paul last year and didn’t want us to draft him, when your best attribute is your size then I don’t really see a great player coming out of those traits. He has terrible hand placement and technique that certainly got better from college and can still be improved on, his footwork is all over the place, and he’s not great laterally, I’m really worried about him versus some of the speed rushers we have on the schedule. I do love that he has to practice against Chubb Phillips and Robinson, because those guys win in different ways, Chubb with his strength and technique, Robinson with his crazy get off and speed/explosiveness, and then Phillips who’s a hybrid of those 2. Those guys are ideal for practice and for Paul to actually turn out to be a decent starter. He’s really got to work on a lot of things and I hope he took the summer to improve his play strength his stance technique etc.

I think the goal is to have an average line that can give Tua enough time to go thru his progressions and utilize all the money we have tied up in our skill positions, and have a good enough running game to take some pressure off Tua. If we are relying on the oline to carry us like Philly or Detroit do then I think we are going to be very dissapointed…so I hope the ask isn’t too much out of these guys.