Dolphins have 'expectation of mastery' for quarterback Tua Tagovailoa

[39wildman]

It’s also because both the GM and head coach can’t evaluate the backup Qb position worth a damn

If u putting that much effort into backup qb. You probably need new starting qb or qb like Kurt Cousins type qb to be ur backup. That McDaniel fault.

 

[39wildman]

I'll be surprised if he doesn't. They can't keep being this unlucky with injuries, there will be a season when the roster stays mainly healthy, they win the division and get a home playoff game.

The team is also good enough to go on the road and beat the 4th seed if they end up with the 5th seed. As it stands though I'd give them next to no shot on the road against KC, Balt or Buf unless those teams had major injuries.

I disagree. The 2023 team was some what good enough to beat 4 seed. Idk about 2025 dolphins team. If they can get into playoff? You probably looking at 6 or 7 seed team again. If Tua stay healthy for 17 games.

 

[39wildman]

Agreed, but it isn't the only thing. We, as Dolphins fans, should know more than anyone that it takes more than just a great QB to win a championship

That one reason Dolphins ain't played in SB or win SB laterly. The Second reason is we don't have completed team to compete against top team in Afc and Nfc. .

 

[Mello Yello]

It’s also because both the GM and head coach can’t evaluate the backup Qb position worth a damn

If u putting that much effort into backup qb. You probably need new starting qb or qb like Kurt Cousins type qb to be ur backup. That McDaniel fault.

If you're playing with your back-up QB the outcome is primarily a function of who your opponent is and how much you're able to contain them...

...not how good the back-up QB is!

I don't care how good of a back-up you have, they aren't contending with the NFL's better teams if your defense allows those teams to score 25+ points.

And for that matter, I don't care how limited of a back-up you have, a good team can still overcome against bad opponents.

Mason Rudolph is a great example....

In 2023 with Pittsburgh, he stepped in at the end of the season and went 3-0 with wins against Cincinnati, Seattle & Baltimore largely driven by the fact the Steelers defense held those teams to 11-, 23- and 10-points, respectively.

In 2024 with Tennessee, he went 1-4 in games where his opposition was able to score 34-, 52-, 17-, 37-, 38- and 20-points.

Guess which game he won in 2024?

If you guessed the game where he had to score the least, you'd be right!



In 2023, Mason Rudolph's 3-game passer rating was 118. The following year, it dropped to just 80. The difference was circumstance. When a back-up is trying to win a shoot-out he's going to get exposed very quickly.

Last year, the Dolphins won & lost games with their back-up QBs as their defense allowed. The 1 exception was the Indianapolis game where Indy only scored 16 points. Miami should've found a way to score enough to win, especially considering they were coming off a win @ NE and a bye week during which they could organize their plan.

You hate to say your season came down to 1 loss but that game in Indy was rough and really spelled the difference in Miami achieving something rather than nothing in 2024.

Nonetheless, it's 1 game and you can't say you hate someone for 1 game nor can you wish for a back-up QB who can go toe-to-toe with the NFL's better teams who are able to score points on you. That's just never going to happen.

 

[djphinfan]

If you're playing with your back-up QB the outcome is primarily a function of who your opponent is and how much you're able to contain them...

...not how good the back-up QB is!

I don't care how good of a back-up you have, they aren't contending with the NFL's better teams if your defense allows those teams to score 25+ points.

And for that matter, I don't care how limited of a back-up you have, a good team can still overcome against bad opponents.

Mason Rudolph is a great example....

In 2023 with Pittsburgh, he stepped in at the end of the season and went 3-0 with wins against Cincinnati, Seattle & Baltimore largely driven by the fact the Steelers defense held those teams to 11-, 23- and 10-points, respectively.

In 2024 with Tennessee, he went 1-4 in games where his opposition was able to score 34-, 52-, 17-, 37-, 38- and 20-points.

Guess which game he won in 2024?

If you guessed the game where he had to score the least, you'd be right!



In 2023, Mason Rudolph's 3-game passer rating was 118. The following year, it dropped to just 80. The difference was circumstance. When a back-up is trying to win a shoot-out he's going to get exposed very quickly.

Last year, the Dolphins won & lost games with their back-up QBs are their defense allowed. The 1 exception was the Indianapolis game where Indy only scored 16 points. Miami should've found a way to score enough to win, especially considering they were coming off a win @ NE and a bye week during which they could organize their plan.

I get all that bud, but ours were incompetent, all of them.

When you see Huntley trying to run a timing precision based offense you know something ain’t right.

And I’ve seen plenty of instances on good teams where they carry their backup

 

[Mello Yello]

I get all that bud, but ours were incompetent, all of them.

When you see Huntley trying to run a timing precision based offense you know something ain’t right.

And I’ve seen plenty of instances on good teams where they carry their backup

2022's Playoff game in Buffalo was exactly the kind of game where a good defense carried a back-up QB, in this case Skylar Thompson and his 44.7 passer rating. Miami's defense scored points and kept Josh Allen in check. Miami sadly lost by a FG.

I'm sorry 2024 sucked but the reality is you don't have an offense / OC / OL that is very good at winning independent of who your QB is. You run an offense reliant on timing and you lack the OL to do anything when Tua's out.

Stop blaming the "back-up QB problem" and start blaming the team with all the baked-in limitations.

Btw, Huntley's 2-3 record in Miami is just as good as his 3-6 record in Baltimore...just sayin'.

There is no such thing in the NFL as a "back-up QB problem," just fans blaming the wrong thing(s).

 

[39wildman]

If you're playing with your back-up QB the outcome is primarily a function of who your opponent is and how much you're able to contain them...

...not how good the back-up QB is!

I don't care how good of a back-up you have, they aren't contending with the NFL's better teams if your defense allows those teams to score 25+ points.

And for that matter, I don't care how limited of a back-up you have, a good team can still overcome against bad opponents.

Mason Rudolph is a great example....

In 2023 with Pittsburgh, he stepped in at the end of the season and went 3-0 with wins against Cincinnati, Seattle & Baltimore largely driven by the fact the Steelers defense held those teams to 11-, 23- and 10-points, respectively.

In 2024 with Tennessee, he went 1-4 in games where his opposition was able to score 34-, 52-, 17-, 37-, 38- and 20-points.

Guess which game he won in 2024?

If you guessed the game where he had to score the least, you'd be right!



In 2023, Mason Rudolph's 3-game passer rating was 118. The following year, it dropped to just 80. The difference was circumstance. When a back-up is trying to win a shoot-out he's going to get exposed very quickly.

Last year, the Dolphins won & lost games with their back-up QBs as their defense allowed. The 1 exception was the Indianapolis game where Indy only scored 16 points. Miami should've found a way to score enough to win, especially considering they were coming off a win @ NE and a bye week during which they could organize their plan.

You hate to say your season came down to 1 loss but that game in Indy was rough and really spelled the difference in Miami achieving something rather than nothing in 2024.

Nonetheless, it's 1 game and you can't say you hate someone for 1 game nor can you wish for a back-up QB who can go toe-to-toe with the NFL's better teams who are able to score points on you. That's just never going to happen.

Every team can't do what steelers can do because Tomlin coaching experience. Everything must go right for team like Dolphins to have winning season. That including Tua staying healthy. Without good or avg qb on dolphins team. Our season is over.

 

[GRYPHONK]

I get all that bud, but ours were incompetent, all of them.

When you see Huntley trying to run a timing precision based offense you know something ain’t right.

And I’ve seen plenty of instances on good teams where they carry their backup

Dallas with Cooper Rush
49ers with a rookie Purdy
Ravens with Tyler Huntley
Steelers with name your QB.
2023 Bucs when Brady got hurt
2023 Browns when Flacco took over
2020 Pats with Cassell taking over

Yes, more complete teams that don't rely solely on their starting QB to play good can typically carry their backup QB.

MIAMI, for the last 3 seasons has been one of the only teams in the NFL that if Tua played a poor game, or their backup started it was guaranteed a loss, well almost. Other teams at least had hope. Or a defense that could keep them in the game.

Miami has like an under 18% win rate with their backup or a poor day by Tua. No bueno

 

[djphinfan]

2022's Playoff game in Buffalo was exactly the kind of game where a good defense carried a back-up QB, in this case Skylar Thompson and his 44.7 passer rating. Miami's defense scored points and kept Josh Allen in check. Miami sadly lost by a FG.

I'm sorry 2024 sucked but the reality is you don't have an offense / OC / OL that is very good at winning independent of who your QB is. You run an offense reliant on timing and you lack the OL to do anything when Tua's out.

Stop blaming the "back-up QB problem" and start blaming the team with all the baked-in limitations.

Btw, Huntley's 2-3 record in Miami is just as good as his 3-6 record in Baltimore...just sayin'.

There is no such thing in the NFL as a "back-up QB problem," just fans blaming the wrong thing(s).

Of course I’m not singleling out just the backup Qb position

There’s mistakes everywhere and enough blame to go around everywhere

 

[Mello Yello]

A back-up QB is essentially just a nameless / faceless player.

That kind of player -- by definition -- is someone who must be irrelevant, otherwise they wouldn't be nameless & faceless.

You can't say that an irrelevant player is critical. It's a logical contradiction.

And you can't say that a back-up is so good that he makes himself critical without that essentially making that guy into someone who's going to earn a starting gig somewhere--or at least someone in complete control over the terms of his employment...which rules out a lot of people who may not necessarily (for personal reasons having nothing to do with football) want to be in Miami.


When you say Miami (or any team) has a back-up QB problem, you're really saying they don't have the ability to compete without their starter because of their inherent reliance on that player's skillset.

The Indianapolis Colts were terrible when Peyton Manning sat out. That doesn't mean Peyton Manning was a limited QB supported by a system built to prop him up, which should've been removed for the sake of a more robust back-up QB situation.

The Colts simply operated under the knowledge that Peyton had to stay healthy, which he largely did.

It's not any different with Tua. The clock is probably ticking on his employment in Miami at this point because he hasn't been able to stay on the field. That's not news.

But so long as you have Tua you're going to run this offense and the back-ups are going to struggle to look anything like what Tua brings.

Just the reality of the situation until Miami's other components grow into strengths that can offset the diminished QB room if/when Tua is out.

 

[djphinfan]

Dallas with Cooper Rush
49ers with a rookie Purdy
Ravens with Tyler Huntley
Steelers with name your QB.
2023 Bucs when Brady got hurt
2023 Browns when Flacco took over
2020 Pats with Cassell taking over

Yes, more complete teams that don't rely solely on their starting QB to play good can typically carry their backup QB.

MIAMI, for the last 3 seasons has been one of the only teams in the NFL that if Tua played a poor game, or their backup started it was guaranteed a loss, well almost. Other teams at least had hope. Or a defense that could keep them in the game.

Miami has like an under 18% win rate with their backup or a poor day by Tua. No bueno

Exactly, and I’d bet our losses had the worst point differential

I can forgive competitive games

 

[Mello Yello]

Exactly, and I’d bet our losses had the worst point differential

I can forgive competitive games

Sadly they were mostly competitive games where a more diverse offense (I'll say run game) would've probably helped.

In 2022 here were your games without Tua:

40-17 loss at Jets (2nd string QB got injured)
24-16 loss vs Vikings (close game)
23-21 loss at Patriots (close game)
11-6 win vs Jets (close game)

In 2024 here were your games without Tua:

24-3 loss at Seahawks (2nd string QB got injured)
31-12 loss vs Titans
15-10 win at Patriots (close game)
16-10 loss at Colts (close game)
20-3 win at Browns
32-20 loss at Jets


You only really had 1 real blow-out loss when your back-up QB started & finished the game.

 

[cltchperf]

I covered this in another thread, but the Dolphins had the 3rd fewest delay of game penalties in the league last year. Up from 5th least the year prior. The “too many delay of game penalties” mantra is just a made up narrative.

yeah but how many false starts on miami;s o line and penalties because the team often has to rush in to hike the ball at the last second each time? How much time did tua have to read defense pre snap or audible because they are rushing last second to get the snap off?

 

[TrogdorTheBurninator]

Every team can't do what steelers can do because Tomlin coaching experience. Everything must go right for team like Dolphins to have winning season. That including Tua staying healthy. Without good or avg qb on dolphins team. Our season is over.

Why are you praising a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 9 years?

 

[djphinfan]

Sadly they were mostly competitive games where a more diverse offense (I'll say run game) would've probably helped.

In 2022 here were your games without Tua:

40-17 loss at Jets (2nd string QB got injured)
24-16 loss vs Vikings (close game)
23-21 loss at Patriots (close game)
11-6 win vs Jets (close game)

In 2024 here were your games without Tua:

24-3 loss at Seahawks (2nd string QB got injured)
31-12 loss vs Titans
15-10 win at Patriots (close game)
16-10 loss at Colts (close game)
20-3 win at Browns
32-20 loss at Jets


You only really had 1 real blow-out loss when your back-up QB started & finished the game.

I disagree