Dolphins Not Interested In Trading For Rosen | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Dolphins Not Interested In Trading For Rosen

Games I saw Rosen was fed to the wolves by the o line play in zona.

A couple what I’d call rookie mistakes by a qb but an awful lot of meet me at the qb
 
If rosens value is really as low as a 3rd, the fins could steal the guy with that move. Not saying i want him here but if we just gave up a 3rd thats a great value.
 
SammySmif said:
If rosens value is really as low as a 3rd, the fins could steal the guy with that move. Not saying i want him here but if we just gave up a 3rd thats a great value.
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Nah his value isn’t that low, that is a fan’s Madden wish.

It will take a 2nd at minimum.
 
I think if you are Washington and you have all that money in Alex Smith you are sitting on trading for rosen for pick 15 on a rookie contract salary with $10 mil already paid out by zona makes a lot of sense.

Plus they get an upside option qb they likely had a very high grade on in last years class thus they are trading for him in the first place

The line play when all hands on deck fully healthy will be a breath of fresh air for the kid too
 
The OL was a problem in Arizona.

But the OL doesn't explain why he had the 2nd lowest passer rating among NFL starters on plays when the OL kept him clean of pressure. That's on him.
 
marino13zach54 said:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/04/kyler-murray-nfl-combine-notes-fmia-peter-king/



3. Rosen Problem 2: What could you get in trade for him? Miami (13th pick in the first round), Washingon (15), the Chargers (28) and New England (32) would be worth investigating … unless the compensation for Rosen has crashed. I asked Hall of Fame quarterback Kurt Warner, who lives in Arizona and watched Rosen last year, what he thinks the value for Rosen is. “I would give a three for Josh,” Warner said. A third-round pick. Yikes. Saturday night, I asked a renowned NFL GM what he thought the value of Rosen in trade would. “Probably a three,” the GM said. “Not what the Cardinals would think his value is.” Scary, on the surface, for Arizona. But if you’ve decided you want Murray, and you’ve decided Rosen’s not your guy, you’ve got to move on, regardless what you get for Rosen
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What no one knows is Flores' opinion of his mental skills - a top factor.
 
ckparrothead said:
Simple fact of the matter is 80% of the franchise/elite level QB success stories that ended up playing as rookies showed you SOMETHING right away, even as rookies, to suggest that they were really good.

Josh Rosen had a really bad year. His offensive line doesn't explain why he had the 2nd worst passer rating in the NFL even on plays where he was kept clean of pressure. And don't give me any crap about Larry Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk, David Johnson, Ricky Seals-Jones, and Jermaine Gresham being so awful that the team could have the worst offense in football despite their QB being secretly pretty good. They're not that bad. Hell, they're not even bad at all. That offense had a QB problem.

Josh Rosen had a 26.6 QBR for the 2018 season. Do you realize how bad that is? We haven't even seen a QBR that low among qualifying starters in the NFL since Blake Bortles was a rookie in 2014.

I liked Josh Rosen well enough coming out of the draft. I like him just like I have liked many guys in the 1st round over the decades, as a dice roll that you're figuring has perhaps a 40% chance of panning out to be the kind of player you want. That's what you're looking at as a guy like that.

Except that like I said, about 80% of the guys that do pan out, if they played as rookies, they looked pretty good.
  • Peyton Manning was 5th in the NFL in passing TDs as a rookie, which back in 1998 the way the NFL was back then, was a BFD.
  • Matt Ryan finished his rookie year Top 5 in QBR, with an 88 passer rating, improving a 4-12 team to 11-5, and a 29th ranked offense to Top 10.
  • Cam Newton took his offense from 32nd in the NFL to 5th in the NFL in points scored overnight.
  • Andrew Luck was Top 10 in QBR as a rookie and led his team from 2-14 to 11-5 overnight.
  • Russell Wilson was Top 3 and had a 100 passer rating that same rookie year.
  • DeShaun Watson had a crazy 83.6 QBR as a rookie, starting 6 games and putting together a 103 passer rating.
  • Ben Roethlisberger was literally undefeated as a rookie starter, assembling a 13-0 record with a 98 passer rating.
  • Baker Mayfield finished the year with a 94 passer rating, taking an 0-16 team and going 7-7 during his time as the QB.
Really if you look at it, the only guys that would have been considered fully successful top QB picks, that played as rookies, and sucked as rookies...are Eli Manning and Carson Wentz.

You could maybe count Jared Goff as among the success stories that started, and played poorly as rookies. You could maybe count Donovan McNabb. You could perhaps count Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford, Ryan Tannehill, Marcus Mariota, or Jameis Winston. Maybe you'd count Derek Carr, or Andy Dalton.

Personally, I would think we'd have higher standards than that. And I'd also note that most of those guys, even if they did have poor rookie years, had better ones than Josh Rosen did.

The point is simple Bayesian updating says you have to look at your previous evaluation and update it with the new information. If you thought the guy had a 40 or even 50% chance of panning out before, and 80% of the guys that do pan out and were asked to play as rookies actually showed you something positive as rookies but he did not, then you're looking at maybe about a 10% chance that he's still the guy you were looking for him to be.
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I was never a Josh Rosen guy, and said so often. But I agree with everything else you said! Personally, I was leading the Baker Mayfield wagon at this time last year, and when people were projecting him to be a 2nd round prospect I was proclaiming him the best prospect in that class. Mayfield has phenomenal processing skills. He reads the field well, processes instantly, and translates that to instant-action with a quick release. Mayfield was light-years ahead of guys like Josh Allen, and better than most of the NFL from day 1. His confidence, leadership, and work ethic let me know he was going to succeed.

In contrast Rosen wasn't even liked by his teammates at UCLA. He didn't galvanize a team, he dampened their will. He reminded me of RG3 at Washington … and that's not how you build a winning team. No thanks, hard pass, not interested at any price.

Rosen has talent, no doubt. But to me, he is destined to join the long list of QB's with talent that will not succeed as NFL QB's.
 
Digital said:
I was never a Josh Rosen guy, and said so often. But I agree with everything else you said! Personally, I was leading the Baker Mayfield wagon at this time last year, and when people were projecting him to be a 2nd round prospect I was proclaiming him the best prospect in that class. Mayfield has phenomenal processing skills. He reads the field well, processes instantly, and translates that to instant-action with a quick release. Mayfield was light-years ahead of guys like Josh Allen, and better than most of the NFL from day 1. His confidence, leadership, and work ethic let me know he was going to succeed.

In contrast Rosen wasn't even liked by his teammates at UCLA. He didn't galvanize a team, he dampened their will. He reminded me of RG3 at Washington … and that's not how you build a winning team. No thanks, hard pass, not interested at any price.

Rosen has talent, no doubt. But to me, he is destined to join the long list of QB's with talent that will not succeed as NFL QB's.
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Sometimes what happens is beyond (or below) what we anticipate.

While I don't like what I see, I see the possibility of a Rosen - Tannehill trade. This gets RT and his salary off our books and introduces a young QB with some potential at a lot less money. Arizona would get a temporary improvement over their current situation and the Dolphins will have expanded their base of potential QB's and improved their financial situation.

This gives me the chills for all the wrong reasons, but "money talks and gossip walks".
 
Ray R said:
Sometimes what happens is beyond (or below) what we anticipate.

While I don't like what I see, I see the possibility of a Rosen - Tannehill trade. This gets RT and his salary off our books and introduces a young QB with some potential at a lot less money. Arizona would get a temporary improvement over their current situation and the Dolphins will have expanded their base of potential QB's and improved their financial situation.

This gives me the chills for all the wrong reasons, but "money talks and gossip walks".
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Perhaps, but with Grier and Flores going out of their way to constantly reinforce their message that it needs to be team-first and they are looking for the guys with the right character and people who love football and put it first in their lives and building a team that fights for one another … I just think adding Rosen would undermine their message. After adding Rosen, a guy who embodies the opposite of all of those qualities, how could any player take what Flores and Grier say seriously? The Dolphins make a lot of bad choices, but I don't think this is going to be the particular one we'll make. We can eat the dead salary cap for Tannehill, but I don't think we're willing to accept undermining a new coach. Never say never … but I have faith we will not add Josh Rosen.
 
Digital said:
Perhaps, but with Grier and Flores going out of their way to constantly reinforce their message that it needs to be team-first and they are looking for the guys with the right character and people who love football and put it first in their lives and building a team that fights for one another … I just think adding Rosen would undermine their message. After adding Rosen, a guy who embodies the opposite of all of those qualities, how could any player take what Flores and Grier say seriously? The Dolphins make a lot of bad choices, but I don't think this is going to be the particular one we'll make. We can eat the dead salary cap for Tannehill, but I don't think we're willing to accept undermining a new coach. Never say never … but I have faith we will not add Josh Rosen.
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Agreed.

Yet making this kind of trade doesn't guarantee Rosen the starting job. It just helps us to improve our cash situation. We may never use Rosen, or he may improve (getting traded is sometimes the reality check some of these guys need), or he may just end up as trade bait for 2020. This should also be considered in regards to how we build our team.

I think how effectively the coaching staff would handle Rosen would send a far more important message then the one this kind of trade makes. This does put an onus on the new coaching staff, but the reality is that everything done by the coaching staff during our rebuilding efforts is going to be scrutinized. This is just part of the game.

It seems to me to be similar to when Osweiler went to the Cleveland Browns.
 
Ray R said:
Agreed.

Yet making this kind of trade doesn't guarantee Rosen the starting job. It just helps us to improve our cash situation. We may never use Rosen, or he may improve (getting traded is sometimes the reality check some of these guys need), or he may just end up as trade bait for 2020. This should also be considered in regards to how we build our team.

I think how effectively the coaching staff would handle Rosen would send a far more important message then the one this kind of trade makes. This does put an onus on the new coaching staff, but the reality is that everything done by the coaching staff during our rebuilding efforts is going to be scrutinized. This is just part of the game.

It seems to me to be similar to when Osweiler went to the Cleveland Browns.
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Good point with Brock Osweiler. But that was the regime that just was pushed out. It just feels like a complete rebuild, a new beginning. I don't get the feeling we'll be rebuilding with NFL players, no big FA's, no trades … just train up the new recruits from the ground up. At least, that's the feeling I get from this rebuild. Who really knows. Fingers crossed whatever it is, that it works.
 
Think back to last years draft. How many of us were pissed when Arizona traded up in front of us and took him. I know I was.

Rosen and Mayfield were the 2 most NFL ready QBs and we almost landed him at 11. I don’t think I’d be willing to trade our #1 straight up for him but maybe we can also get a pick back like a third or maybe they’re second... Sign me up !!!!!!!
 
mrbunglez said:
Stick a fork in him he’s done.
ProFootballTalk: Prices are slashed for Josh Rosen jerseys
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/04/prices-are-slashed-for-josh-rosen-jerseys/
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Is this Arizona’s actual doing? As in the team? If so this is a dick move when a guys still on the roster.

Oh it’s just a store. Probably owned by some overzealous cards fan.

If the pro shop of the cards does this while he’s still on the roster boy would that be in bad taste
 
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