Dropped Passes (An Interesting Stat)

[fInbred]

Ok, all I have been hearing/reading lately is how Chris Chambers drops everything and how reliable Marty Booker is or has been. Well check out these stats........

On the season Chambers has 5 drops, and how many does ol Mr. Reliable Marty Booker have you say??? That answer would be 4. So Ok, Chambers has one more dropped pass than Booker......Oh how Chambers sucks, and Booker is Sooooo reliable!!! LoL, gimme a break. Anyway here's a list of players that have either as many or more dropped passes than Chambers this season.......

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]Andre Johnson, Randy Moss, Reggie Williams, Dennis Northcut, Reggie Wayne, Braylon Edwards, Ben Watson, Marvin Harrison, Larry Johnson, Matt Jones, Brandon Jones, Randy Mcmichael....... and that's just SOME of the players in the AFC. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]In the NFC there's even more, but the most notable ones are....... [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Sans-Serif]TO, Darrell Jackson, Randy Moss, Steve Smith, Alge Crumpler, Joey Galloway, Donald Driver, Torry Holt, Brian Westbrook, Reggie Bush, Larry Fitzgerald, Santana Moss, Donte' Stallworth[/FONT]

don't forget randy moss!

 

[NathanHunt]

Roll out the daily barrage of point/counterpoint in the never ending saga of "Chris Chambers is an elite WR".

This never gets old.

 

[emocomputerjock]

Wow, Randy Moss is so good he plays in both the AFC and the NFC at the same time and to think, It's been reported Randy was on the decline.

No wonder he's pretty much given up on playing football - he's stretched too thin :sidelol:

 

[IluvJuMiami]

Roll out the daily barrage of point/counterpoint in the never ending saga of "Chris Chambers is an elite WR".

This never gets old.

That is your mission Mr. Hunt, if you choose to accept it.

 

[emocomputerjock]

Roll out the daily barrage of point/counterpoint in the never ending saga of "Chris Chambers is an elite WR".

This never gets old.

Problem is, the stats support one side of the arguement, and the other side has nothing.

 

[westernnyphinfa]

See, the thing is....... When Chambers drops a really tough catch everyone has a panic attack and says he sucks, and can't catch anything, but when Booker or Welker drop one nobody says anything or it's just......"O well everyone drops passes" anyway my point is that the guy isn't dropping any more passes than anyone else.

That's because he drops are usually drive killers, I'm sorry man I have watched every Miami Game for the past 15 years, and I don't care what your so called stats say, bottom line he drops routine route passes that end drives, and makes unreal catches at times.

In defense of all the wr's on this team realize that over the past 7 years they have had several different QB's delivering them the ball, and I am sure that each QB has a different velocity, realease point, and accuracy, which alters the catch.

 

[RenoFinFan]

Could this possibly be due to the fact that most of Booker and Welkers catches are short 5-10 yard catches, and a lot of what they've "tried" to throw to Chambers has been horrible dowonfield throws to Chambers that have been under/overthrown, thrown at his feet, or just flat out thrown out of bounds, even passes that were thrown away by Joey but went in Chambers direction count towards that "astounding 43%"

I do agree that Chambers has not dropped as many passes this year as he did last. Last year he was second in the league in dropped passes with "17" while this year he has 5.

While Chambers problems this year have not been his drops, his problems have been his inability to 1) get seperation and 2) use his body to shield the ball from the defender to give himself opportunities to catch the ball or drop it.

This (along with some poor throws...but the more open and often you get open the more accurate the throws bc a QB is not trying to thread a ball in there) has resulted in the poor catch percentage when thrown to. As of now, he has 55 catches while being targeted 131 times. The completion percentage to Chambers is below 50% in almost every "split" category.

While it has become vogue to say that Chambers drops balls left and right it has also become vogue to say it is because Chambers only runs the deep routes and Booker doesn't. However, this isn't true as evidence by both players "splits."

Booker:
Passes thrown 11-20 yards: 12 comp 22 att
Passes thrown 21-30 yards: 2 comp 6 att
Passes thrown 31-40 yards: 2 comp 3 att
Passes thrown 40 + yards: 0 comp 2 att

TOTAL Passes thrown 11 or more yards: 16 comp 33 att 48.4%

Chambers:
Passes thrown 11-20 yards: 10 comp 30 att
Passes thrown 21-30 yards: 2 comp 17 att
Passes thrown 31-40 yards: 0 comp 6 att
Passes thrown 40 + yards: 2 comp 5 att

TOTAL Passes thrown to 11 or more yards: 14 comp 58 att 24.1%

As for Welker:
11-20 yards: 5 comp 9 att
21-30 yards: 3 comp 5 att
31-40 yards: 0 comp 2 att
40 + yards: 0 comp 0 att

TOTAL 11 or more: 8 comp 16 att for 50%

IMO the problem with Chambers has not been dropping passes as it was last year but a combination of things: inaccuracy of throws (not getting open significantly increases this), poor route running (including not adjusting to ball when it is in the air) therefor not able to get seperation, and not shielding the defender from the ball very effectively.

 

[Section126]

Terrell Owens is missing from that list.

 

[emocomputerjock]

I do agree that Chambers has not dropped as many passes this year as he did last. Last year he was second in the league in dropped passes with "17" while this year he has 5.

While Chambers problems this year have not been his drops, his problems have been his inability to 1) get seperation and 2) use his body to shield the ball from the defender to give himself opportunities to catch the ball or drop it.

This (along with some poor throws...but the more open and often you get open the more accurate the throws bc a QB is not trying to thread a ball in there) has resulted in the poor catch percentage when thrown to. As of now, he has 55 catches while being targeted 131 times. The completion percentage to Chambers is below 50% in almost every "split" category.

While it has become vogue to say that Chambers drops balls left and right it has also become vogue to say it is because Chambers only runs the deep routes and Booker doesn't. However, this isn't true as evidence by both players "splits."

Booker:
Passes thrown 11-20 yards: 12 comp 22 att
Passes thrown 21-30 yards: 2 comp 6 att
Passes thrown 31-40 yards: 2 comp 3 att
Passes thrown 40 + yards: 0 comp 2 att

TOTAL Passes thrown 11 or more yards: 16 comp 33 att 48.4%

Chambers:
Passes thrown 11-20 yards: 10 comp 30 att
Passes thrown 21-30 yards: 2 comp 17 att
Passes thrown 31-40 yards: 0 comp 6 att
Passes thrown 40 + yards: 2 comp 5 att

TOTAL Passes thrown to 11 or more yards: 14 comp 58 att 24.1%

As for Welker:
11-20 yards: 5 comp 9 att
21-30 yards: 3 comp 5 att
31-40 yards: 0 comp 2 att
40 + yards: 0 comp 0 att

TOTAL 11 or more: 8 comp 16 att for 50%

IMO the problem with Chambers has not been dropping passes as it was last year but a combination of things: inaccuracy of throws (not getting open significantly increases this), poor route running (including not adjusting to ball when it is in the air) therefor not able to get seperation, and not shielding the defender from the ball very effectively.

This post delivers, great job!

 

[emocomputerjock]

Terrell Owens is missing from that list.

Even in spite of his drops though, he still has a higher catch % and a heck of a lot more touchdowns to boot!

 

[Butterfrog 2.0]

Sorry, Chambers has been thrown to ~ 50 times more than anyone else, and he's caught a lower percentage of those passes than anyone else on the team.

Ok, lets see......he's been thrown to a lot more, but has about the same number of drops. Chambers runs more deep routes than the other WR's and our QB is Horrible at throwing deep. IDK but all of this tells me that...... More passes are being thrown to Chambers that are uncatchable than to the other WR's. Anyone that has been to a game this year Knows that Chris IS getting open, but when he does the QB either doesn't look his way, or the pass is bad downfield. Even the play acouple weeks ago where Chambers caught the ball down the left sidelines where he was WIDE open, I mean nobody within 10 yards of him Joey managed to make a bad enough throw to where Chambers had to slow down, and tip toe to make the catch forcing himself out of bounds....... he still made the catch, but it should have been an EASY TD rather than forcing the WR to make a tough catch just to stay in bounds

 

[emocomputerjock]

Ok, lets see......he's been thrown to a lot more, but has about the same number of drops. Chambers runs more deep routes than the other WR's and our QB is Horrible at throwing deep. IDK but all of this tells me that...... More passes are being thrown to Chambers that are uncatchable than to the other WR's. Anyone that has been to a game this year Knows that Chris IS getting open, but when he does the QB either doesn't look his way, or the pass is bad downfield. Even the play acouple weeks ago where Chambers caught the ball down the left sidelines where he was WIDE open, I mean nobody within 10 yards of him Joey managed to make a bad enough throw to where Chambers had to slow down, and tip toe to make the catch forcing himself out of bounds....... he still made the catch, but it should have been an EASY TD rather than forcing the WR to make a tough catch just to stay in bounds

Still - it's only Chambers that's had this problem during his career with the Dolphins? Even last year, his pro bowl season, he still didn't catch half of the passes thrown his way. Something isn't right when other players are catching those balls and he's not.

 

[adamprez2003]

From Stats, Inc., a "dropped pass" is:

I'm sorry. They determine whether its a dropped pass from reporters? What they cant afford NFL Network?

 

[RenoFinFan]

Ok, lets see......he's been thrown to a lot more, but has about the same number of drops. Chambers runs more deep routes than the other WR's and our QB is Horrible at throwing deep. IDK but all of this tells me that...... More passes are being thrown to Chambers that are uncatchable than to the other WR's. Anyone that has been to a game this year Knows that Chris IS getting open, but when he does the QB either doesn't look his way, or the pass is bad downfield. Even the play acouple weeks ago where Chambers caught the ball down the left sidelines where he was WIDE open, I mean nobody within 10 yards of him Joey managed to make a bad enough throw to where Chambers had to slow down, and tip toe to make the catch forcing himself out of bounds....... he still made the catch, but it should have been an EASY TD rather than forcing the WR to make a tough catch just to stay in bounds

Unfortunately for Chambers the numbers when being thrown to "short" don't help his cause either:

Booker:
Thrown to behind line of scrimmage:7 comp 8 att
Thrown to 1-10 yards: 28 comp 41 att

TOTAL: 35 comp 49 att 71.4%

Chambers:
Thrown to behind line of scrimmage: 13 comp 18 att
Thrown to 1-10 yards: 28 comp 55 att

TOTAL: 41 comp 73 att 56.1%

Welker:
Thrown to behind line of scrimmage: 8 comp 11 att
Thrown to 1-10 yards: 43 comp 59 att

TOTAL: 51 comp 70 att 72.8%

A lot of times a ball that is claimed to be a poor throw may simply be a QB throwing the ball away bc he is not open and would have to "force" the ball in. The result is often not good. Sort of a double-edged sword for the QB. He gets blamed if he tries to force it in (as evidenced by Joey trying to force the ball to Chambers during the Jags game resulting in two pics) and gets labeled as a poor decision maker, but then gets blamed for poor throws when he doesn't try to force it in and throws it either away or only where his receiver can catch it. Leaves for an "excuse" for the receiver's poor play.

It may be nice to blame Harrington for Chambers poor numbers, but another comparison that doesn't bode well for CC is in the past 4 games when Joey throws to CC his TD / INT ratio is 0 TD passes 4 INT. When Joey throws to everyone else 6 TD passes 0 INT. If only "ONE" guy is having the problem and it has been a problem with every QB he has ever played with then who is really the problem?

As for your other point, I can recall watching the NBC pregame on the pass you were referring to when Chambers stepped out of bounds and Sterling chastised Chambers for not being able to "adjust" to make that catch and keep in bounds to score the TD, not blame Harrington. If memory serves me correctly (not that it always does) Chambers chested that ball.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

Exactly. However you define "thrown to", I have to assume that it's at least being applied consistently for every receiver. And if other receivers are doing much better in their catch %, than means Chambers is not doing very good.

no it doesn't