Edds is a Patriot

[Fish-Head]

This is just another by product of Ireland's awesome 'Churn the bottom of the roster' philosophy.

 

[Fish-Head]

I actually think its BB's offense that made Brady.

Geez Chubbs... I know he is the enemy but you are going too far with this... The guy threw 4 INT's last year... 4!!!! That ain't no sytem.

 

[dabruinz]

I wouldn't be surprised if YOU can't, but people with a pretty good understanding absolutely can. Coverage is the only halfway difficult issue for it, and all Pro Football Focus really needs to deal with is the actual play that occurs, which is always going to be shown on the television broadcast.

You are so full of it. No wonder you have Skunk in your name. And no, PFF needs to deal with the WHOLE play because without the WHOLE play, you can't know, for certain, whether something is a blown coverage or just a damn good play.

And how exactly do you think coaches actually scouted and game-planned without a centrally organized and distributed film system?

Well, considering that you have to go back to the early 50's to find times when coaches didn't use film and when they had a scout actually sit at the stadium and document every play, what's your point? The All-22 has been around since 8mm film to 16 mm film to Beta to computers. And it's gotten more advanced every few years..

No it's not and no I didn't? Yards per carry isn't, the yardage gained in relation to a "goal" is.

You are the one who claimed that the Pats had a lousy YPC and that it was proof to PFF claims that Mayo was only the 26th best ILB in the league and not even the best ILB on the Pats..

Stunts and traps are not really "intricate", they are pre-snap elements built into a play and readily quantified and explainable. The offensive lines "reactions" are completely dictated by pre-snap reads and defensive positioning. You're acting like it's magic.

Hmm.. there actually may be some intelligence there after-all. But you don't take it far enough. PFF can't know who has what responsibility if the LDE stunt inside. Is it the center or the Right Guard? Who has the responsibility of the Mike on a delayed blitz through the Offensive left "A" gap? Is it the Center, the RB kept in on Max protect or the LG?

Everything you've posted thus far really suggests you saw someone who knows a lot more of you badmouthing Pro Football Focus in what was likely a justifiable context that you don't understand, and are parroting it because you don't like how someone else is using it.

Everything I've posted is stuff I've seen them do. Such as attributing sacks allowed to the wrong O-lineman. Such as penalizing LBers for making plays out of their immediate zone of coverage.

I like how you're accusing me of not understanding and doing it wrong.

The tight end blocking a 2-gap RDE on a running play towards Mayo is problematic in that a tight end won't actually be able to reach him. The DE is going to be lining heads up on the Tackle, and his responsibility in that situation would be to fill the gap between the Tackle and Guard. There's no way that guy is going to get into position without maybe the power of transportation or intangibility.

This is factually incorrect when talking about a 2-Gap system. A TE lined up on the Left side of the O-line will get to the RDE very easily. Why? because the TE is lined up next to the LT, who is opposite the RDE. And the TE can very easily engage the RDE, particularly if the OT pulls. Also, in a 2 gap system, the RDE is NOT supposed to fill a gap. He's supposed to engage the LT and keep the LT in place, forcing the RB to either go through the B gap or run outside. If the RB goes through the B gap, then it would be Mayo's responsibility to make the play if the RDE can't shake his blocker and make it himself. If the RB goes outside, then it's the responsibility of the ROLB to set the edge and force the RB back inside or to force the RB parallel to the LOS until a safety, CB or RILB can get there to make the play.

Likewise, if Vince Wilfork is drawing a double team on a run at Mayo, it's that's Center and Guard, because he's filling that play-side A gap. And as I was originally saying before you got into a long, pointless and embarrassing tangent... When Wilfork is drawing a double team, that play-side guard is being occupied basically no matter what.

The problem the Pats had last year is that, on runs to the offensive left side, opposing teams would double Wilfork in 1 of several ways. One was having the RG and Center take him on. Another was having the LG and C. A third was having the TE in motion hitting Wilfork from the Left "A" gap while he was engaged with the C and RG.

There was no tangent. What was pointed out to you was the reality of the Pats defense. Something you have shown you clearly don't understand. And without being able to understand it, your claims have no real basis. So, I could understand why you might be embarrassed.

Because there's nothing there that's actually worth responding to? I didn't actually have any arguments on any of those topics, just Mayo. If you'd like me to comment on then, point them out and I'll be glad to validate your existence.

There wasn't anything worth responding to?? So, you don't value actual facts, but you value garbage equations made by people with little to no background in the game of football?

Lots of players get accolades they don't really deserve? I didn't really say he was "bad", either. He's just overrated.

So, all the coaches, all the players, and all the sports writers are wrong but you and those hacks at PFF are correct??? Umm OK.. :crazy:

 

[dabruinz]

Geez Chubbs... I know he is the enemy but you are going too far with this... The guy threw 4 INT's last year... 4!!!! That ain't no sytem.

Chubby is closer to being correct than you are giving him credit for. Belichick's offense is what helped Brady develop into the player is today. You are correct in that Brady was fantastic in throwing only 4 ints last year. But how did he get so good? Because of the discipline and education he learned at the hands of Belichick. You put Brady with any other coach out there and there is a better than average chance that Brady doesn't develop into the stellar QB he is today. On the other hand, without Brady, the Patriots don't win any SBs and Belichick is gone from the Pats in 3 years. Brady and Belichick both credit Dick Rehbein for that. It was Rehbein who lobbied for Brady over Tim Rattay when the Pats.

And yes, Belichick has an offense. There was a great article on ESPN about it 2 years ago..
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/columns/story?columnist=wickersham_seth&id=4443119

 

[dlockz]

Chubby is closer to being correct than you are giving him credit for. Belichick's offense is what helped Brady develop into the player is today. You are correct in that Brady was fantastic in throwing only 4 ints last year. But how did he get so good? Because of the discipline and education he learned at the hands of Belichick. You put Brady with any other coach out there and there is a better than average chance that Brady doesn't develop into the stellar QB he is today. On the other hand, without Brady, the Patriots don't win any SBs and Belichick is gone from the Pats in 3 years. Brady and Belichick both credit Dick Rehbein for that. It was Rehbein who lobbied for Brady over Tim Rattay when the Pats.

And yes, Belichick has an offense. There was a great article on ESPN about it 2 years ago..

I think BB showed two years ago he can still win without Brady when he had a green qb named Matt Casselm as they still went 11-5. Not saying Brady is not a huge factor but Belicheck is the biggest factor in ne. They missed the playoffs in 2008 but by the end of the year they might have been the best team in the league, they just pulled it together too late and had the bad luck of alot of teams doing well.

 

[Skunkape Serape]

You are so full of it. No wonder you have Skunk in your name. And no, PFF needs to deal with the WHOLE play because without the WHOLE play, you can't know, for certain, whether something is a blown coverage or just a damn good play.

No, you don't. Where the pass is thrown is the important aspect of it. That is generally going to be where any blown coverage will be.

Well, considering that you have to go back to the early 50's to find times when coaches didn't use film and when they had a scout actually sit at the stadium and document every play, what's your point? The All-22 has been around since 8mm film to 16 mm film to Beta to computers. And it's gotten more advanced every few years..

The point isn't as hard to figure out as you are seemingly having trouble with here. Game film doesn't require multiple angles, and coaches were able to cope long before it has reached its current complexity.

You are the one who claimed that the Pats had a lousy YPC and that it was proof to PFF claims that Mayo was only the 26th best ILB in the league and not even the best ILB on the Pats..

No, I didn't. You're having a hard enough time trying to come up with arguments I am making, don't give yourself more work. The Patriots YPC, and PFF's rankings are two seperate issues.

Hmm.. there actually may be some intelligence there after-all. But you don't take it far enough. PFF can't know who has what responsibility if the LDE stunt inside. Is it the center or the Right Guard? Who has the responsibility of the Mike on a delayed blitz through the Offensive left "A" gap? Is it the Center, the RB kept in on Max protect or the LG?

Yes, you can. It's very simple. You can look at how the linemen act on a play and tell if it is a man or zone scheme. Same thing with a combination of the two, because it will be entire "sides" and the entire sides will adhere to the principal. Once you've identified one, you've got the side of the line. Then it's pretty simple to figure out who is supposed to block whom, and their reactions make it even easier to confirm. Your scenarios aren't even that well thought out there, the only one halfway confusing is the delayed blitz, and you figure out if it is man or zone. If it is man, it's almost certainly the running back("big on big, back on backer" rules are the norm), if it's zone, look where they are looking. Backs will generally be kicked out to the edge.

Everything I've posted is stuff I've seen them do. Such as attributing sacks allowed to the wrong O-lineman. Such as penalizing LBers for making plays out of their immediate zone of coverage.

You've seen them penalizing linebackers for making plays out of their immediate zone coverage? Please, explain how.

This is factually incorrect when talking about a 2-Gap system. A TE lined up on the Left side of the O-line will get to the RDE very easily. Why? because the TE is lined up next to the LT, who is opposite the RDE. And the TE can very easily engage the RDE, particularly if the OT pulls. Also, in a 2 gap system, the RDE is NOT supposed to fill a gap. He's supposed to engage the LT and keep the LT in place, forcing the RB to either go through the B gap or run outside. If the RB goes through the B gap, then it would be Mayo's responsibility to make the play if the RDE can't shake his blocker and make it himself. If the RB goes outside, then it's the responsibility of the ROLB to set the edge and force the RB back inside or to force the RB parallel to the LOS until a safety, CB or RILB can get there to make the play.

You fundamentally do not understand 2-gap. The defensive linemen will typically engage the guy he's heads up on, but his job is not to sit there and occupy him.Do you not understand what is implied by the "2" and the "gap" portion of the technique? What you're describing involves neither a gap, nor two of them. There are situations in what you are describing exists, it's NOT a 2-gap play, it's certain pass rushing moves where a specific blocker will be bull-rushed.

The linemen reads, reacts, and fills one of two gaps. A play to the inside will have the DE filling the inside gap, where a tight end CANNOT block him. You cannot reach someone who is moving three techniques over from you in run blocking.

 

[Roman529]

If he couldn't make the Phins why are all of you so worried he will be anything at all for the Pats. OK they took Welker from us....you have to get over it.

 

[dlockz]

If he couldn't make the Phins why are all of you so worried he will be anything at all for the Pats. OK they took Welker from us....you have to get over it.

he also developed Rob Nickovich as a player who was also cut by us as well

 

[Roman529]

he also developed Rob Nickovich as a player who was also cut by us as well

He was also released by the Saints...the Patriots haven't exactly had Pro Bowl LB's since Bruschi and Vrabel called it a career.

 

[dlockz]

He was also released by the Saints...the Patriots haven't exactly had Pro Bowl LB's since Bruschi and Vrabel called it a career.

actually Jerod mayo was a probowler last year