Enough with all this "We Gave Fiedler 4 Years!" Crap...

[Lawrence]

But Jay DID do a lot that would have destroyed the team, that would have lost many more games (see his multiple INts ratio I posted) if it not were for a perennial top 5 D. It's easy to forget his horrible performances when we manage to win those games, isn't it?
Now, will that too be the case with AJ? That is a very srong possibility. For example, if Mia wins the Cinci game in OT, that would have been IN SPITE of AJ, not because of him. That pretty much describes jay's whole career. Does he deserve NO credit? Well, there was the dallas Thanksgiving game, but beyond that, it's tough to argue that jay's had a above-average impact on a game's results.

Wow, does your hatred for Jay run so deep that you are willing to discredit his role completely in 41 victories?

 

[Emskirch]

For all of you who are defending Jay with his fabulous record, why aren't you defending Wannstedt with the same claim?

DW and JF in four seasons, have led the Dolphins to a regular-season record of 41-23 and a pair of playoff appearances.

My oh my how things change when re look deeply into reality!


DW and JF should be sent packing!

:yes:

 

[texasPHINSfan]

For all of you who are defending Jay with his fabulous record, why aren't you defending Wannstedt with the same claim?

DW and JF in four seasons, have led the Dolphins to a regular-season record of 41-23 and a pair of playoff appearances.

My oh my how things change when re look deeply into reality!


DW and JF should be sent packing!

simple answer: jay can only control what is on the field, and can only make good with the tools he's been given. Dave had carte blanche for 4 years. That was the best he could do. Clearly not good enough.

Jay could only do with what he was given. He was not in charge of player acquisitions, drafts, etc....

and for the last time, no one ever said the D did not win games for us! we STILL HAVE THIS DEFENSE, so it is a constant - a non-variable. for the sake of this thread's argument, the defense should never be mentioned again.

 

[PhinBeck]

Please dont try to defend Jay by saying AJ throws picks therfore Jay should start! OK ignore 61 tds, 60 ints, but face it he has a 1 to 1 td to int ratio. that is over 4 years. not a game and half. So dont come back with AJ has 3 picks and 2 tds. that is in 1 and a half games. If he has that ratio over 4 years then ok. Jay threw 2 returned for tds last year I believe, one against Buffalo. in 01 he threw several. Remember the oak playoff game in 00 or teh 4 or 5 ints he threw in the Indi game that same year? Yeah not every int was Jays fault, but to say Jay is better because Aj has thrown 2 ints returned for tds is ridiculous. At least Aj threw bullets that were picked off because of miscommunication rather than because the ball floated and the defender had a week to catch up to teh ball.

Oh and as far as AJ having 3 almost picked or 5, that is another been there done that. Giants game last year? 2 ints 2 almost ints? Buffalo after the int returned for a td? There a thousand almost ints every game by numerous qbs.

At least AJ is young and misatkes can be expected. Jay has had 4 years sorry it is true, he still makes those mistakes at a point he should have learned from them. Numerous ints from Jay are the result of him attempting passes he doesnt have the arm to throw, most commonly the out. So like I said it isnt what he has or has not done, it is what he cannot do.

 

[TorontoFin]

Wow, does your hatred for Jay run so deep that you are willing to discredit his role completely in 41 victories?

Wow, nice of you to assume that I could even muster up an emotion that strong for a football player. So no, I don't "hate" anyone I don't know. I'm sorry you confuse my opinion on jay's 4-year impact with the Dolphins as "hatred." But it is what it is. BTW, you're the guy always defending lebartard, right? Are you "in Love" with him?

 

[TorontoFin]

And BTW, I don't discredit his role. I acknowledged all the game's he's pitted us behind the 8 ball and the D had to bail us out. It's not the same type of role you had in mind, but a role none the less. Can you think of just three games in 4 years where Jay specifically bailed out the D? There were chances, like the KC game where the D was horrible, and Jay had an opportunity to keep up offensivly against a swiss cheese D. But he threw 4 or 5 picks in that game didn't he?

 

[Disnardo]

C oC, you started a decent thread, but I have to disagree with a few fans, that RIGHT NOW, this OL is not performing anywhere near what the OLs from 2000-2003.

For shure not even JF can perform anywhere near the level of performance he has had since starting for this team.

We can argue that JF can scramble and make things happen with this OL, better than Feeley, and that JF had a better win record in the past so he should do well if playing. But the big BUT in my opinion is that this line is not blocking for the run like it used to with the past OLs.

Case in point

2000- the OL blocked for 3.82 ypc; 2001- the OL blocked for 3.52 ypc; 200- the OL blocked for 4.72 ypc and in 2003- the OL blocked for 3.83 ypc. JF had enough time at times to move around the pocket and make something happen with his arm or legs.

Now with this OL is blocking for 2.25 ypc, that's an avg of 1.5 yds less than the previous 4 years. What you saw from JF in the first half of the Tenn game, is the performance drop off due to the OL's execution. What hurts him is that now we cannot run block, he will find no place to scramble through, there is not enough time to throw, like we used to and he does not have the arm to make the throws needed to help this OL overcome its short falls, till the OL gels.

Feeley will deliver the ball with more speed and can at times if allowed, by OL protection, complete the ball downfield. He has shown a better sense of pocket presence (when there has been a pocket), and has shown to be a ****y guy. Feeley will not need to scramble with the way this OL is executing now, because there is no place he can run through, the same goes for JF.

Bottom line is that until this OL matures and gels, there will be no holes for the RBs to run through, very little room if any for the QBs to scramble through, and very little time to pass when needed. A vocal QB with an attitude, and an arm, is the only way to go until then.

 

[fins4o8]

texasphinfan is right. we shouldnt bash JF anymore. honestly it isnt his fault. he played to his best ability. we should blame Wanny for getting JF in the 1st place & having him as our QB for 4yrs when we could of drafted some QB during those time. since we didnt draft a QB, we would never know what could of been but we might of been better off today if we did draft a QB back then.

going back to my blame the guys on top, we should blame JJ for picking Wanny as his successor. lastly blame Wayne for letting JJ pick a successor instead of interviewing other canidates.

 

[BigFinFan]

texasphinfan is right. we shouldnt bash JF anymore. honestly it isnt his fault. he played to his best ability. we should blame Wanny for getting JF in the 1st place & having him as our QB for 4yrs when we could of drafted some QB during those time. since we didnt draft a QB, we would never know what could of been but we might of been better off today if we did draft a QB back then.

going back to my blame the guys on top, we should blame JJ for picking Wanny as his successor. lastly blame Wayne for letting JJ pick a successor instead of interviewing other canidates.

Why not blame Joe Robbie for selling the team to Wayne - that lead to this entire downfall!


:roflmao:

 

[Disnardo]

Wow, does your hatred for Jay run so deep that you are willing to discredit his role completely in 41 victories?

I can't answer for TorontoFin, but, I can say that I give him credit for all of those victories. Now here is the issue, can he perform again with this current OL, RBs and a few new WRs? I don't think so and I have the stats that seem to back me up...

JF has always been a fast starting QB, always gets your offense moving early in the game (the first half), and slows down in the 2nd half of the games.

He has never had a bad as 1st half (in the TEnn game), as far as I can remember, in his 4 years as a starter for this team. An 8% QBR.

Last year (2003) he avg around 86% QBR in the 1st half and in 2002 he avg 98% QBR in the 1st halfs of games.

He had taken most of the snaps in TC with the starters, and looked ok in the Preseason, but it was Preaseson. Now opponents really game plan for him and execute their game plan better than our OL. So in this current offensive unit JF will not be as productive, until our OL gets better.

This in point prooves to me that his QBR in the first half of the TEnn game was not a fluke, but of the execution of his unit.

 

[Pagan]

Oh, you mean like AJs pass the other night to Chambers....wahts your point! :roflmao:

The point is....people like yourself are slamming AJ for doing things in one game that Fiedler's been doing for 4 years. I was making a comparison. Apparently that eluded you, huh?

You're willing to go back to a guy who's done squat for 4 years, but ready to hang a guy who's had one game. Mind-boggling.... :roflmao:

 

[texasPHINSfan]

The point is....people like yourself are slamming AJ for doing things in one game that Fiedler's been doing for 4 years. I was making a comparison. Apparently that eluded you, huh?

You're willing to go back to a guy who's done squat for 4 years, but ready to hang a guy who's had one game. Mind-boggling.... :roflmao:

on the contrary... i never said we should go back to Fiedler. I am saying that Feeley isn't the answer. You can keep them both.

 

[Coral Reefer]

I'm not a Fiedler homer, but i'm sick of seeing this in every thread - everyone is jumping on that expression bandwagon.

In four years, Fieder took us to a 41-23 record:

:shakeno:

Give me a friggin break.

I'm tired hearing all you guys make an argument that team record means that every player on that team is good. There are bad players on every good team. A team wins if it has quality at other positions to make up for a player that is bad. I do give credit for the Dolphins 41-23 record while Jay was QB. I give the credit where it belongs, TO THE TEAM. I think it's an amazing feat they were able to pull off all those victories with a weakness like Jay leading the team at QB. Fiedler is an avg. player (on a good day) that has ridden a strong defensive team to MANY victories. When Jay leaves he will never sniff a starting line up again.

You can bet on that.
Will you still be telling me how great Jay is at that point! :shakeno:

The "We gave Jay 4 years" argument is very valid. It was 2 years too long in fact. We are way past overdue to move on at the QB position. Is Feeley the answer? We don't know and we wont until he gets playing time.
Part of moving on is taking chances. "you can't reach second base without taking your foot off of first base". The Dolphins bet on Feeley. It may be the wrong bet but at least they are finally willing to move on.

 

[raving]

Nah the guy never improved. I was ok with the decision to give the guy a chance but I thought that one or one and a half seasons was enough and at that point you cut bate and move on. He simply NEVER improved substantially and that made him a bad choice to continue on with. So I feel entitled to complain and I definitely intend to do it!

 

[texasPHINSfan]

:shakeno:

Give me a friggin break.

I'm tired hearing all you guys make an argument that team record means that every player on that team is good. There are bad players on every good team. A team wins if it has quality at other positions to make up for a player that is bad. I do give credit for the Dolphins 41-23 record while Jay was QB. I give the credit where it belongs, TO THE TEAM. I think it's an amazing feat they were able to pull off all those victories with a weakness like Jay leading the team at QB. Fiedler is an avg. player (on a good day) that has ridden a strong defensive team to MANY victories. When Jay leaves he will never sniff a starting line up again.

You can bet on that.
Will you still be telling me how great Jay is at that point! :shakeno:

The "We gave Jay 4 years" argument is very valid. It was 2 years too long in fact. We are way past overdue to move on at the QB position. Is Feeley the answer? We don't know and we wont until he gets playing time.
Part of moving on is taking chances. "you can't reach second base without taking your foot off of first base". The Dolphins bet on Feeley. It may be the wrong bet but at least they are finally willing to move on.

you didn't read the thread.... you read the subject title and went straight to the "quick reply", didn't ya?