ESPN's Mortensen's take on Cris Carter & Miami drafting a QB......

[iceblizzard69]

Griese is good though and he actually beat good teams.

 

[Dajesus]

This is a stupid topice, but it is the offseason so...Greise had a hall fame team. His o-line was way above solid, he had a hall of famer at RB and WR, and great depth at rb, his defense is in the top 10 of all time. Jay has not had the luxury of any of these things. I still think Bob is great, and Jay will never be in the hall of fame, but he can get the job done with the right team. I just hope this years team is that team.

 

[Slaine]

Originally posted by Bodzilla29
Thanx Slaine my man....us poor students need a break like that every once and a while! hehehe

Have to agree with what was said tho.......questionmarks on both lines, will the quantity make up for sheer quality?? let's hope so.

Anytime dude!

 

[Marino1983]

Originally posted by Dajesus
This is a stupid topice, but it is the offseason so...Greise had a hall fame team. His o-line was way above solid, he had a hall of famer at RB and WR, and great depth at rb, his defense is in the top 10 of all time. Jay has not had the luxury of any of these things. I still think Bob is great, and Jay will never be in the hall of fame, but he can get the job done with the right team. I just hope this years team is that team.

I do not understand why this is a (stupid topic)? There are some similarities between alot of current and former Dolphin players, Greise was never able to take the whole team on his shoulders and win, he needed help. But one thing that I strongly believe is that among HOF qb's, B- Griese was one of the most intelligent (if not THE most intelligent) qb's - to ever win a S-B ! Fiedler is also very intelligent but it seems he becomes indecisive at times and trys to make a play -- when he knows better!! Griese will always be considered a great qb,, the ironic thing about it is- Griese won 2 S-B's and is a great qb but he will always be in Marino's shadow and Dan never got a ring....... :confused: :D Marino1983

 

[dolphan39]

Originally posted by Marino1983
I do not understand why this is a (stupid topic)? There are some similarities between alot of current and former Dolphin players, Greise was never able to take the whole team on his shoulders and win, he needed help. But one thing that I strongly believe is that among HOF qb's, B- Griese was one of the most intelligent (if not THE most intelligent) qb's - to ever win a S-B ! Fiedler is also very intelligent but it seems he becomes indecisive at times and trys to make a play -- when he knows better!! Griese will always be considered a great qb,, the ironic thing about it is- Griese won 2 S-B's and is a great qb but he will always be in Marino's shadow and Dan never got a ring....... :confused: :D Marino1983

Comparing Jay to Bob is fair, but not comparing him to Dan. Can you imagine Dan throwing 12-15 passes a game :eek: ? Bob was more like Phil Simms for the 1986 Giants (for those a little younger folks). But what was the key to Bob and his greatness was that he called the plays. QB's used to call the plays for all you youngin's.

P.S. sorry if I re-hashed anything since I committed the mortal sin of reading the last post without reading the entire thread - since I just got back from vaca.

 

[Marino1983]

I agree 39 !!!!!!

But since there are alot of Phin fans that feel that Fiedler is not up to D- Marino standards,, then it would be fair to compare both Marino and Fiedler as far as wins and loses their first 2 years, especially if Fiedler qb's the Dolphins to a S-B win !! Marino was unfortunate enough to have the skills to take an average team and tranform it into a :GREAT: team. unfortunate in the sense of not getting enough help,(either offensively or defensively). What happened during Marino's career in Miami must of been extremely frustrating for Dan as it was for me as a fan. With Feidler there are no high expectations that ,,(when the Phins are 14 or even 7 points down), Jay can bring back the Dolphins for a win, it is possible - but in reality - Feidler needs alot of help from his teammates on both sides of the ball. I think that Shula decided that when he drafted Marino that Dan was the franchise and a solid running game was not needed ,,, that IMOP was a mistake that Shula eventually paid for (at the end of his coaching career) because he could never bring another S-B trophy back to Miami. Dan loved to pass the football, and really didn't like to establish the running game,, even though deep down inside he knew it would help the passing game,, Dan still wanted to pass the ball up and down the field !! That IMOP was a mistake that Marino paid for in only getting to a S-B once. Don't get me wrong. there is NOOOOO bigger fan of Shula and Marino , but I still think that both thought too much alike and that when ANYone would suggest that the only way Miami would get another championship would be to make radical changes to the offensive gameplan,,, both Shula and Marino would say yes to the media but privatley--it would be buisness as usual .. That is why I really believe in what Wannstedt has and continues to do with this team, he is on the right track to building a very good team,,there are just a few missing pieces and if the Phins are lucky,, those missing peices will be found in the next couple of months .... :D Marino1983

 

[dolphan39]

Re: I agree 39 !!!!!!

Originally posted by Marino1983
But since there are alot of Phin fans that feel that Fiedler is not up to D- Marino standards,, then it would be fair to compare both Marino and Fiedler as far as wins and loses their first 2 years, especially if Fiedler qb's the Dolphins to a S-B win !! Marino was unfortunate enough to have the skills to take an average team and tranform it into a :GREAT: team. unfortunate in the sense of not getting enough help,(either offensively or defensively). What happened during Marino's career in Miami must of been extremely frustrating for Dan as it was for me as a fan. With Feidler there are no high expectations that ,,(when the Phins are 14 or even 7 points down), Jay can bring back the Dolphins for a win, it is possible - but in reality - Feidler needs alot of help from his teammates on both sides of the ball. I think that Shula decided that when he drafted Marino that Dan was the franchise and a solid running game was not needed ,,, that IMOP was a mistake that Shula eventually paid for (at the end of his coaching career) because he could never bring another S-B trophy back to Miami. Dan loved to pass the football, and really didn't like to establish the running game,, even though deep down inside he knew it would help the passing game,, Dan still wanted to pass the ball up and down the field !! That IMOP was a mistake that Marino paid for in only getting to a S-B once. Don't get me wrong. there is NOOOOO bigger fan of Shula and Marino , but I still think that both thought too much alike and that when ANYone would suggest that the only way Miami would get another championship would be to make radical changes to the offensive gameplan,,, both Shula and Marino would say yes to the media but privatley--it would be buisness as usual .. That is why I really believe in what Wannstedt has and continues to do with this team, he is on the right track to building a very good team,,there are just a few missing pieces and if the Phins are lucky,, those missing peices will be found in the next couple of months .... :D Marino1983

:eek: Marino1983 that's exactly what I began to feel around the late 80's. 3 big problems arose to prevent the Fins and Don and Dan from getting a ring:

1. the endless RBs drafted never turned out to be a great one
2. too many draft picks were wasted on talent-less or unmotivated players on D (Bosa, Shipp, Kumerow, Graf........)
3. Hugh Green - who would have greatly improved the remnants of the Killer B's got hurt ag. the Jets when he was just getting to Pro Bowl form and was never the same after the knee injury
   [/list=1]

 

[Marino1983]

I Whole Heartily Agree !

And that is why I will never understand why some Phin fans continue to rag on Fiedler !! The Dolphins had one of the GREATEST qb's in NFL history on their roster for 17 yrs,, and 2 head coaches could never find the right combination of players to surround him . I know that their are still alot of fans that still don't like JJ ,, but in reality - he had the right idea, but it was too late in Dan's career for him to change his mindset (run the ball to set up the pass)! One thing that some fans like to argue about - but IMOP, I truly believe that if the trade that JJ tried to make (twice) with Indy for M- Faulk would have happened,,,, D-Marino would have had at least one S-B ring on his finger before he retired !!! :D :) Marino1983

 

[dolphan39]

JJs biggest problems were evaluating talent on O and being completely pigheaded about hiring decent asst coaches (Kippy). If JJ had help with the O, i.e. Norv Turner and Norv helped out with selecting players on O as well who knows ?

Their are lots of great things JJ did:

• Zach Thomas
• Jason Taylor
• Sam Madison
• Pat Surtain

 

[dolphan39]

Marino1983

this conversation reminds me a scene from one of my favoriate all-time movies Pulp Fiction "The Wolf asks for a fellatio delay": particluarly the line "Well, let's not start suckin' each other's dicks quite yet." :o

85. INT. CHEVY NOVA - MORNING 85.

The interior of the car has been cleaned and lined with
bedspreads and quilts. Believe it or not, what looked like a
portable slaughterhouse can actually pass for a non-descript
vehicle.

The Wolf circles the car examining it.

Jules and Vincent stand aside, their clothes are literally a
bloody mess, but they do have a sense of pride in what a good
job they've done.

THE WOLF
Fine job, gentlemen. We may get
out of this yet.

JIMMIE
I can't believe that's the same
car.

THE WOLF
Well, let's not start suckin' each
other's dicks quite yet. Phase one
is complete, clean the car, which
moves us right along to phase two,
clean you two.

 

[Capt. Dick]

Originally posted by dolphan39
JJs biggest problems were evaluating talent on O and being completely pigheaded about hiring decent asst coaches (Kippy). If JJ had help with the O, i.e. Norv Turner and Norv helped out with selecting players on O as well who knows ?

Their are lots of great things JJ did:

• Zach Thomas
• Jason Taylor
• Sam Madison
• Pat Surtain

D. Gardener was a good pick as well.............unfortunately his back gave out.

 

[dolphan39]

Originally posted by Capt. Dick



D. Gardener was a good pick as well.............unfortunately his back gave out.

a good pick and a risky one for his first as a Fin. Guys like Kiper called it the worst pick of the 1st round and all - showed how much they know/knew

 

[Capt. Dick]

Originally posted by dolphan39
a good pick and a risky one for his first as a Fin. Guys like Kiper called it the worst pick of the 1st round and all - showed how much they know/knew

Remember that one well (even tho my memory is for ****)..................Gardener was labeled a big underachiever.

 

[Capt. Dick]

As far as O..............konrad was a good pick.

 

[dolphan39]

Originally posted by Capt. Dick
As far as O..............konrad was a good pick.

and JJ picked up CFL guy in Dixon and Arena guy in OG

pretty sparse on O though since we do not even want to start re-hashing all the bad ones (John Avery)