Farmer only deals with pro personnel

[FearTheBeard]

So, you have no questions about the others? Huh, you must know more than me.

I think I have more questions about Farmer than Xander without a doubt. I probably have more questions about him than Dawson (and Licht for that matter if he was still in play), because it's a big question. Can he evaluate college talent? And I don't think anyone knows that, I'm a lot more comfortable with Xander's track record.

 

[Show Me Your TDs]

To be expected if they are a candidate for our position. The higher up status level guys (Gamble, Decosta, Scott McLaughlin) will stay with their clubs until the special job becomes open. Teams that hire backwards have to expect someone with smaller experience. My first choice would be Xanders due to the experience factor, however hearing and seeing what Farmer offers has my attention and sees the reason on why he is considered.

 

[NCFINFAN13]

Anybody but Ireland. :d-day:

 

[phinzfan21]

So he couldn't possibly be any good at scouting college guys if he did land a GM job?

 

[FearTheBeard]

So he couldn't possibly be any good at scouting college guys if he did land a GM job?

I think I'm asking a pretty fair question here. He could entirely be good at scouting college players, but where's the proof. I'm trying to determine if he's qualified, simply stating just cause he lands a GM job he can isn't good enough, plenty of GM's are flops or specialize in certain things. So why is Farmer supported by so much of this board? It's an honest question, I want to know, not shut off to the idea. We need a guy who evaluates college talent effectively because we need to be able to build through the draft, does he might that criteria? Jeffy was a GM, but ask most of this board and they'll see he could evaluate talent (I disagree).

 

[Dr. Phin]

I want someone who can evaluate talent. PERIOD! I could give a damn if he even knows what a contract is!!! Let Aponte deal with that crap.

 

[TarHeelFinFan]

I think I'm asking a pretty fair question here. He could entirely be good at scouting college players, but where's the proof. I'm trying to determine if he's qualified, simply stating just cause he lands a GM job he can isn't good enough, plenty of GM's are flops or specialize in certain things. So why is Farmer supported by so much of this board? It's an honest question, I want to know, not shut off to the idea. We need a guy who evaluates college talent effectively because we need to be able to build through the draft, does he might that criteria? Jeffy was a GM, but ask most of this board and they'll see he could evaluate talent (I disagree).

As has already been pointed out, the guys that are "qualified" by the definition that they have done "everything" we need a GM to do are already employed as GMs, and thus aren't going anywhere. Those that are not were fired. More than likely for a reason. The only re-tread that even interests me is Xanders because he was fired to make room for Elway, not because he failed. He built most of that team headed to the Super Bowl. If not Xanders, then an up and comer is better than a re-tread.

 

[phinzfan21]

I think I'm asking a pretty fair question here. He could entirely be good at scouting college players, but where's the proof. I'm trying to determine if he's qualified, simply stating just cause he lands a GM job he can isn't good enough, plenty of GM's are flops or specialize in certain things. So why is Farmer supported by so much of this board? It's an honest question, I want to know, not shut off to the idea. We need a guy who evaluates college talent effectively because we need to be able to build through the draft, does he might that criteria? Jeffy was a GM, but ask most of this board and they'll see he could evaluate talent (I disagree).

My point is why is evaluating talent at the college level have to be seen as such a stretch for him if he has been evaluating nfl talent? Does looking out more for "potential" disqualify his ability to know what he is looking for in younger guys and their abilities who need coaching up? I dunno maybe it does a bit, but I think it's a lil fair to say evaluating talent is evaluating talent. He has been around in draft rooms and around talent evaluators, and I can't imagine he hasn't picked up anything. Maybe he's awful, I don't really know. The fact that you often get unproven talent in these situations is just part of it. Good proven guys have jobs. You just gotta go by what you know and what others think of him (reputation) and how he comes across in interviews and if it feels worth a shot, take it. Why I appreciate them taking due diligence in this search.

 

[Zounds]

Because we are hiring someone who has never been a GM, there is going to be some on the job training for our new GM. That's also the likely reason our new GM will not be the authoritarian with "final say" that Ireland was. If we were hiring someone with many years of experience as GM, we could give them complete and total control because of the experience they have. I like the fact that we are going after a young and up-and-coming candidate, but with that comes some inexperience, and they are going to need a good supporting staff.

 

[Geforce]

He was a pro scout in Atlanta, 2002-2006
dir. Of pro personnel in KC, 2006-2012
I want an all around gm that did it all!!
thoughts, contradictions?

Baltimore's Ozzie Smith, Houston's Rick Smith, San Diego's Tom Telesco, Philadelphia's Howie Rose and Green Bay's Ted Thompson were all pro personnel guys before they became general managers of their respected teams.

Whether a general manager has experience on the college side of scouting is not as important as his abilities to work closely with the people who actually spend the most time scouting the players.

 

[iambanned]

I think if you can REALLY evaluate players that are already in the NFL, then you can evaluate college players well too, IMO. You can see the development of guys from the rookie year to more veteran status and understand the differences in the players that succeeded vs the players that failed to make the jump well and develop into solid pros.
Ireland clearly failed to evaluate pro players well, and I think you could argue that his misses in FA, especially on the O-line were more costly than his misses in the draft. Any GM that would trade the MVP of the ProBowl (after Brandon Marshall put on a freakin' clinic) for 2 third-round picks (when the % of starters coming from 3rd-round picks is like 32%) obviously sucks mightily at his job.
If you can excel at determining the cream of the crop in the NFL, being able to see through the stats and get the whole picture, then I think you can easily extrapolate that to kids coming into the draft.

 

[normaniii]

Baltimore's Ozzie Smith, Houston's Rick Smith, San Diego's Tom Telesco, Philadelphia's Howie Rose and Green Bay's Ted Thompson were all pro personnel guys before they became general managers of their respected teams.

Whether a general manager has experience on the college side of scouting is not as important as his abilities to work closely with the people who actually spend the most time scouting the players.

Best point made so far!

 

[FearTheBeard]

My point is why is evaluating talent at the college level have to be seen as such a stretch for him if he has been evaluating nfl talent? Does looking out more for "potential" disqualify his ability to know what he is looking for in younger guys and their abilities who need coaching up? I dunno maybe it does a bit, but I think it's a lil fair to say evaluating talent is evaluating talent. He has been around in draft rooms and around talent evaluators, and I can't imagine he hasn't picked up anything. Maybe he's awful, I don't really know. The fact that you often get unproven talent in these situations is just part of it. Good proven guys have jobs. You just gotta go by what you know and what others think of him (reputation) and how he comes across in interviews and if it feels worth a shot, take it. Why I appreciate them taking due diligence in this search.

I have absolutely no problem with a lot of the guys we've interviewed. Guys like Licht and Xanders have put good drafts together, I think there are fundamental differences between collegiate and pro level scouting. You have to look for different things and you're doing it at a professional level, anytime you're doing something at a professional level I don't wanna just assume the guy can do it. I'm fine with unproven talent, I'm not looking for retreads. We actually have some pretty good candidates, but when my #1 criteria is an ability to evaluate the college level and find guys in the draft, I want to be comfortable that he can do that. Not just assume he's able to cause he scouted NFL guys.

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------

Baltimore's Ozzie Smith, Houston's Rick Smith, San Diego's Tom Telesco, Philadelphia's Howie Rose and Green Bay's Ted Thompson were all pro personnel guys before they became general managers of their respected teams.

Whether a general manager has experience on the college side of scouting is not as important as his abilities to work closely with the people who actually spend the most time scouting the players.

Good to know. I'm open to Farmer, just looking for points like this from people.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

Baltimore's Ozzie Smith, Houston's Rick Smith, San Diego's Tom Telesco, Philadelphia's Howie Rose and Green Bay's Ted Thompson were all pro personnel guys before they became general managers of their respected teams.

Whether a general manager has experience on the college side of scouting is not as important as his abilities to work closely with the people who actually spend the most time scouting the players.

Counterpoint: Kansas City's free agent signings while Farmer was in charge of Pro Personnel were bad. And I think 'bad' is maybe even charitable.

 

[Geforce]

Counterpoint: Kansas City's free agent signings while Farmer was in charge of Pro Personnel were bad. And I think 'bad' is maybe even charitable.

I understand that but Farmer didn't make the final decision on who to sign.

Then again, the general manager's philosophy may have been to supplement the current roster with free agents instead of looking for high priced starters.