hoops
Tua time!
if this contract is done right we'll be able to limit our cap risk going forward...the way this contract is laid out will be interesting...but its gonna be key
Flynn is officially in Miami per La Canfora
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ckparrothead
Premium Member
Flynn is by no means a slam dunk but at least if you sign him you're putting yourself out there and taking a damn chance on a guy that could nail down the position for 10 years and help you install a new, (hopefully) quality system.
hoops
Tua time!
bingo...and if the cards could get out of kevin kolbs contract after a year if manning had signed there there's no reason unless these guys royally screw up the terms we can't either...
why people can't understand this i can't for the life of me comprehend...
Ilovemyfins4eva
Active Roster
ya, but again, its not like hes passing over a top notch qb prospect for flynn. that would be a major risk.
heres what he is probably thinking from his (philbin) perspective. ''right now my qb is matt moore. we cant get luck, their are no other great prospects really out their this year. matt moore, although has looked solid at times, he has never played a full string of consistently good games in his career. my qb matt flynn can prob just as good as him,if not better. would i rather stick with another regimes qb, or bring in my own guy, who if he turns out to be great, i will be a legend in miami, but if he turns out to be a bust, i would have prob be fired anyway if i stuck with moore, so at least i went down fighting with my own guy''.
again, if somehow we had a chance to draft luck, or if barkley had declared and philbin said'' i want flynn'', then ya, he would be crucified if he flopped, and that would be a major gamble. but going with flynn over moore? as much as i think moore is soild, and still dont think flynn is any better really, its not really much of a risk. remember who he is choosing him over. not some proven star qb.
obviously u can tell im not a flynn lover, but if he is our starting qb, i will root for him, because i root for the dolphin jersey, not individuial players. i also rooted for henne, beck, feeley, etc, and they all blow. i just dont see this as the upgrade, and i think the smart move would be to go with moore 1 more year, since we are prob rebuilding by trading away our best playmaker for a bag of chips, and then next year go all in on barkley, unless moore somehow went like 12-4, took us to the superbowl or championship game.
Well Weeden is Beck/Weinke and Flynn is Feeley/Kolb/Cassell etc. I mean sure I have never "really" seen either guy play, but they fit the mold of the other guys who failed so they will automatically fail also.
We'll never get it right if we don't take a chance on a few of these guys, and if we miss, we try again next year. Hoping Matt Moore is better than Flynn/Weeden/Tannehill is an automatic fail. If he is and he continues to improve into a better QB, that's great. If he doesn't and one of these guys are better, thats great too. If all of em fail, we swing at pitches in 2013. You just can't sit back and do nothing tho.
Ilovemyfins4eva
Active Roster
i understand the thing about getting out of the contract, but as im sure you know, when people make big commitments/investments, they dont like being wrong, and usually like to give themselves as much of a chance to see it succeed as possible.
although your right, with the type of contract we offer we can get out of it, unless flynn were to have a historical bad year, like 8 tds, 26 ints, and a 4-12 record, even if he does mediocre like moore type but not great, and assuming we are not picking 1st overall for barkley, i can see philbin not wanting to give up on his investment that early, again unless its an historical bad type year.
like look at kevin kolb. the guy could not have really had a worse year than he did, yet the cardinals still held on to him, because they prob want to see if it can work out, and dont want to be deemed as a failing investment until they actually get a few years to see.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
No risk, no reward. That's the problem, nobody wants to take any risks.
I guess some people don't view a guy that threw 9 TDs to 2 INTs in 2 starts versus 2 playoff teams as a "high reward" player. I just disagree there. He's got his kinks. He can take some sacks at times. He'll make a bad decision here or there. His deep ball floats. I don't think that will prevent success.
I'm not a huge believer in Flynn, but as long as the contract limits long term risk I'm all for bringing him in. He's certainly being placed in a position to succeed. I couldn't care less how much upfront money Ross pays. He'd probably spend it on magic beans anyway.
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I am a big proponent of signing Flynn if the money is right, but Detroit's defense is absolutely putrid. Playoff team, yeah. Playoff defense... no.
hoops
Tua time!
there's no doubt the concern is there that this guys an average pro qb and we sit on him for years never getting anywhere...i hope these guys are smarter than that but like you said ireland is stubborn...that said i believe that if philbin is endorsing flynn which he obviously is or he wouldn't be in the building philbin knows that he will be held accountable for how matt flynn fares with us...i think ireland would pass the buck on that in a heartbeat...but ireland also knows that til he fills the qb position for the long term with a high end guy ross is not gonna be a happy camper and his job will always be likely on thin ice so i doubt he's gonna sit on flynn if his cap #s down the line don't reflect the player on the field...all that said though if there is one system that matt flynn is most likely to have success in and play a nfl qb at a high level its the one we are looking to run and install...lets also add our other options at this time aren't making anyone warm and fuzzy...flynn has made plays at the pro level when he's gotten his chance...people can say it was against a bad d or whatever but he did some things on tape that were pretty high end with his pocket presence his timing his ball placement and accuracy...and thats exactly what this o is gonna be about...not a rocket arm not a vertical passing game off pa but what flynns done in the past and is familiar with and had success doing
ckparrothead
Premium Member
The thing I don't understand about the Kevin Kolb comparison is you could pop in a tape of Kevin Kolb and see bad decisions and bad plays everywhere. Between his awful timing, his tendency to get the ball stripped trying to run around, accuracy which was really inconsistent, total inability to read or press anything down the field and tendency to only go for the check downs...I just never 'got it' on why this guy is supposed to be a good quarterback.
I can pop on a tape of Matt Flynn and there's no comparison. The guy has timing, accuracy, decent (but not 'good') ability under a rush, his decision making is sound, he'll read and push the ball up the field...he can get the ball stripped but it's on real strip-sacks not his running around and being stupid with it.
Similarly think of the Kyle Orton thing last year. We'd have had to pay a 3rd round pick and $9 million a year for him. Pop on the tape of both of those guys and tell me Matt Flynn is not CLEARLY better. Orton could have entire games where absolutely nothing he did was any good from an accuracy or decision-making standpoint. He had zero ability under a rush. Yet he was an upgrade on Chad Henne, I still insist that is the case.
In the three games where Flynn had significant action his offense scored 75 points on his 70 of 107 for 908 yards, 9 TD and 3 INTs passing. That's a 108 passer rating. That's a good job. It's promising. He's got the physical ability. I've done a lot of work on his velocity and though I'm not happy with his deep ball I believe he has "good" velocity on any throw between 50 and 100 feet that needs velocity on it, better than guys like Peyton Manning and Colt McCoy. Currently better than Robert Griffin and Ryan Tannehill as a matter of fact. Not better than Brandon Weeden but, well, who is?
I can pop on a tape of Matt Flynn and there's no comparison. The guy has timing, accuracy, decent (but not 'good') ability under a rush, his decision making is sound, he'll read and push the ball up the field...he can get the ball stripped but it's on real strip-sacks not his running around and being stupid with it.
Similarly think of the Kyle Orton thing last year. We'd have had to pay a 3rd round pick and $9 million a year for him. Pop on the tape of both of those guys and tell me Matt Flynn is not CLEARLY better. Orton could have entire games where absolutely nothing he did was any good from an accuracy or decision-making standpoint. He had zero ability under a rush. Yet he was an upgrade on Chad Henne, I still insist that is the case.
In the three games where Flynn had significant action his offense scored 75 points on his 70 of 107 for 908 yards, 9 TD and 3 INTs passing. That's a 108 passer rating. That's a good job. It's promising. He's got the physical ability. I've done a lot of work on his velocity and though I'm not happy with his deep ball I believe he has "good" velocity on any throw between 50 and 100 feet that needs velocity on it, better than guys like Peyton Manning and Colt McCoy. Currently better than Robert Griffin and Ryan Tannehill as a matter of fact. Not better than Brandon Weeden but, well, who is?
hoops
Tua time!
yeah the deep ball hangs in the air...but i see that same trait even with andrew luck...i see that with a lot of guys...carson palmer ball can die in the air...a part of me wonders though if the deep ball in the detroit game that he threw that split defenders down the middle and floated a bit and was behind a bit was more about 30 degree temps and snow flurries than a floater...
ckparrothead
Premium Member
BAD weather in that Detroit game. It wasn't just that one ball though.
Look at the New England throw, the one where he hit James Jones on the run for a TD in the hole between cover two. That's the kind of deep ball you want to see more often because it kept pace. But it was only about 35 yards and the deep balls of his that tend to bleed out are more in the 40 to 45 yard range.
The James Jones TD in the NE game...I had that thing an average of 47 mph which is great for a ball that deep.
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hoops
Tua time!
i'm with you on kolb and orton...when i watched those guys tape when we considering them i just wanted to throw up...
hoops
Tua time!
another concern i have with flynn is if theres one guy i believe can identify a guys weaknesses and exploit them at qb its bill belichick...and if that happens the rest of the league will follow suit til he proves he can handle it...whatever said issue might be...kinda like what happened with chad henne...the second we didn't have that running game to keep teams from sitting back in shell coverages and making him make quick decisions and read the field and anticipate he got exposed...