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Flynnsanity

Tom Brady's arm is not at Stafford's level. Stafford is right up there with Flacco.

I don't think Weeden has Jamarcus Russell or Joe Flacco throwing power, not quite Colin Kaepernick's either...but there aren't any power throws you would shy away from having Weeden throw. Same with Aaron Rodgers. Same with Ben Roethlisberger, etc.
 
hooshoops said:
if you're looking for a guy to throw 40 yard ropes flacco and cutler imo are the 2 guys who can throw it through you...flacco in that afc championship game threw an inward post to boldin that not 3 nfl qbs could make that throw with that velocity and on a line...just a rediculous throw...cutler can throw off an uneven platform in traffic like few i've ever seen...

rodgers stafford brady they all got great arms but bradys i think is one that has gotten much better since he's been in the pros...it wasn't always that way...i don't think i'd put bradys arm in the category of any of these other guys...not quite

but to each his own...
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In the absence of maybe Rodgers, Brady has what I think is the best arm in the NFL, one of the best ever. Flacco is a big boy with a very solid arm, but I don't consider it in Brady's league. Brady throws laser beams and I've never seen a more accurate arm, ever.

Two that come to mind in terms of tremendously accurate arms are Drew Brees and Bernie Kosar, who was uncanny. And I'd be remiss not to mention Philip River as well. And, of course, Dan Marino.
 
jim1 said:
Totally untrue, your reading comprehension skills are lacking today. That Rodgers and Flynn having similar YAC stats doesn't necessarily tell the whole story, and Rodgers' actual, real life, substantial body of work justifies his YAC and shows waht he's all about. The point is the obvious, significant help that Flynn got in that one game, and that I doubt that Rodgers has enjoyed an equivalent of receivers breaking tackles for TDs, screen plays for TDs and crappy secondary play ON AVERAGE for his whole career. Sure it happens, just not as frquently as Flynn enjoyed it against the Lions. Flynn got some big time breaks in that game as per his gaudy stats, and for the umpteenth tiime that doesn't mean that he didn't play a very good game.
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I read what you wrote just fine. I see that you totally ignored what I brought up about how Flynn's yards BEFORE catch were also ridiculously high in that game. You totally ignored that point. His 8.29 yards BEFORE catch means that even if you took his 223 yards after catch down to the Packers' season-long average of 6.41 yards, then you're talking about 199 yards after catch. Do those 24 yards really make all the difference in the world? Is YPA going from 10.9 to 10.4 matters that much?

Oh, but it was the broken tackles and such, right? Except that when Aaron Rodgers was throwing the ball this year, his receivers broke 53 tackles on 369 completions. In the Detroit game, the receivers broke only 3 tackles on 31 completions. That's 14.4% versus 9.7%. So no, Matt Flynn did not have more help than Aaron Rodgers generally had.

He JUST had a good game. That's it. Stop trying to qualify it or nitpick at it because those attempts are misguided at best and blatantly hypocritical at worst. He had a GOOD game, against a BAD secondary, threw the ball WELL, and was rewarded with a record breaking performance. That's it. That's all there is to say about it. Don't whip out these stupid 223 of 480 yard statistics unless you actually understand what you're talking about.

Flynn's skinny resume and average arm just don't do it for me. And I'm not contradicting myself at all if I like the Cosell article, agree with the majority of it, and at the same think that Flynn's arm is average while Cosell finds it to be above average with significant limitations. That's just weak commentary on your part.
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Weak commentary on my part? You quote Cosell's saying he has above-average arm strength and then insist he has AVERAGE (all caps) arm strength, while admitting you've not even watched the man throw the football except in a highlight film...and *I* have the weak commentary? Really?
 
ckparrothead said:
I read what you wrote just fine. I see that you totally ignored what I brought up about how Flynn's yards BEFORE catch were also ridiculously high in that game. You totally ignored that point. His 8.29 yards BEFORE catch means that even if you took his 223 yards after catch down to the Packers' season-long average of 6.41 yards, then you're talking about 199 yards after catch. Do those 24 yards really make all the difference in the world? Is YPA going from 10.9 to 10.4 matters that much?

Oh, but it was the broken tackles and such, right? Except that when Aaron Rodgers was throwing the ball this year, his receivers broke 53 tackles on 369 completions. In the Detroit game, the receivers broke only 3 tackles on 31 completions. That's 14.4% versus 9.7%. So no, Matt Flynn did not have more help than Aaron Rodgers generally had.

He JUST had a good game. That's it. Stop trying to qualify it or nitpick at it because those attempts are misguided at best and blatantly hypocritical at worst. He had a GOOD game, against a BAD secondary, threw the ball WELL, and was rewarded with a record breaking performance. That's it. That's all there is to say about it. Don't whip out these stupid 223 of 480 yard statistics unless you actually understand what you're talking about.



Weak commentary on my part? You quote Cosell's saying he has above-average arm strength and then insist he has AVERAGE (all caps) arm strength, while admitting you've not even watched the man throw the football except in a highlight film...and *I* have the weak commentary? Really?
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Yes, really. Your lame fixation and dissection of my "average" description of Flynn's arm versus "above average" by Cosell with his clear caveats of it's limitations that result in him NEEDING to be a system QB is funny at this point. For me to say that Flynn was fortunate in multiple situations as per a screen pass going for 80 and a TD and multiple missed tackles resulting on TDs is simply what happened- the odds are slim at best that he'd entertain such good fortune on a consistent basis if he had an actual body of work to judge, which of course he doesn't. As to his yards before catch- good for him, no one said that he didn't have a good game. I was just pointing out, as others noticed this as well, that there were some factors to give you pause for concern before coming to the conclusion that Flynn is a very good QB. It's the first thing that I noticed after seeing pretty clearly that Flynn's arm is nothing to write home about.

To refresh your memory as per the Cosell article:

"How does this relate to Matt Flynn in 2012? Flynn, at 6-foot-2, does not possess prototypical size. He has above-average arm strength, nothing more. There are power throws he will struggle to make, like deep digs at 18-22 yards, or deep comebacks. In fact, these are not throws you would ask Flynn to make. The bottom line: Flynn is not a top-level passer.

Flynn is a member of a much larger quarterback fraternity, players who need to be coached and managed to maximize the skills they possess. They must be defined and enhanced by the methodology and the concepts of the passing game. That’s the way it works in the NFL for 80-90 percent of its quarterbacks. ""

Wow- I said average and Cosell said above average with some pretty serious limitations. Drop me a line when you have an actual point to make.
 
finleys contract carries a $4.5 mil cap hit for 2012 and a $10.5 mil hit for 2013...so it looks to me like the pack saved another $3 mil towards this years cap in the deal
 
hooshoops said:
finleys contract carries a $4.5 mil cap hit for 2012 and a $10.5 mil hit for 2013...so it looks to me like the pack saved another $3 mil towards this years cap in the deal
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I heard $5.75 million. Either way they don't even have enough money under the projected cap to sign their rookies at the moment. They need to clear more room.

Heading into the signing of Finley, they had a salary cap figure of $118,001,169 with a potential rollover from 2011 of $5,481,638. I expect they'll request the entire amount rolled over, meaning they have a net cap figure of $112,519,531.

You say the Finley deal involves a 2012 cap charge of $4.5 million. Let's take that at face value. That puts their cap figure at $117,019,531.

I've heard the salary cap, which was $120 million in 2011, is not actually going to rise...it will be $120.4 million in 2012. That means that they have about $3.4 million in cap room and need to raise about a million more just to sign rookies.

I've heard they plan to release Chad Clifton and restructure Donald Driver. I read an analysis of these moves that claims they can squeeze about $9 million out of the moves. Cutting them both outright would clear $11.4 million. But by keeping Driver they expect to not save quite that much, and for him to make about the same money as James Jones at $2.3 million.

So let's adjust. They would have $107,919,531 in cap charges after those moves...versus a $120,400,000 salary cap. This is approximately $12,480,469 in cap space.

Teams have the ability to "borrow" up to $2 million in salary cap space from future years. Last year they had the ability to "borrow" up to $3 million. If they do that, they could have $14,480,469 in salary cap space...

...which would JUST BARELY scrape together enough room for Flynn's $14.4 million franchise tender. That's one tight fit.

They would literally not be able to do a thing in free agency, not re-sign any of their own, not sign anyone new...and they would have NO room to sign draft picks.

I saw a rundown of their other salary cap numbers too. They're all really low, like $1 to $3 million, except Rodgers. None of them are players they can afford to give up. So if the Dolphins or anyone else stared them down on Flynn's compensation until it's time to sign the Draft picks...the Packers are forced to start cutting into the MEAT of the roster just to sign their own rookies...guys like A.J. Hawk, Desmond Bishop, Traemon Williams, Charles Woodson, etc.

In any scenario where the Packers try and squeeze a Flynn tag in...they would have to have an agreement in place with the Dolphins already, and in my opinion the Dolphins would be STUPID to do that. Flynn is already more likely to join your team than anyone else's team. You give up draft compensation for no reason. And guess what, by giving Flynn that $14.4 million GUARANTEED contract, in addition to giving up draft picks for him, you have just given Matt Flynn leverage over you. You may THINK that by having exclusive negotiating rights with him, you'll save money. That's not the case. By trading stuff for him and guaranteeing him $14.4 million in 2012, you just put pressure on your own team to get something done...or have all that effort be wasted and look impotent. It's the Paul Soliai thing all over again.
 
"Flynnsanity" vs. "Linsanity".....errr, until up against a formative D like last night's when he was sent to the "Linfirmary.". A nice concept until reality intruded and some cause for pause.

Would have been a lot more reassuring seeing Flynn put up those numbers against the equivalent of our great Heat, like say the Steelers or Ravens.

 
Vaark said:
"Flynnsanity" vs. "Linsanity".....errr, until up against a formative D like last night's when he was sent to the "Linfirmary.". A nice concept until reality intruded and some cause for pause.

Would have been a lot more reassuring seeing Flynn put up those numbers against the equivalent of our great Heat, like say the Steelers or Ravens.
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I'd put more stock in a dominating performance against the reigning champs over a terrible game against a serial choke artist who couldn't beat the reigning champs while favored..but that's just me.
 
Here's what I'm curious about, and maybe its more of a PM. I'm weary on Flynn mostly due to the money he will command which I feel could make this whole regime sink or swim with him. I'm starting to come around based on the comments of posters I respect talking about things he's done in the 2 games he's played in.

TedSlimmJr, how do you feel about Flynn? I'm curious to know.

For the record I didn't watch the Lions game but will say I never saw more blown coverages in a game than I did when the Lions faced the Saints in the playoffs, so i do not think highly of their defensive backfield. I did watch the Pats game from begining to end and was definitely impressed with Flynn, I really thought that game would be a blowout with Rodgers being out. However, I do remember a costly INT and the biggest thing that sticks out to me, maybe it shouldn't but it does, is that Green Bay's 2 minute offense at the end of that game was piss poor. They had a chance to tie it up and seemed to lollygag quite a bit.
 
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DolfanISS said:
Here's what I'm curious about, and maybe its more of a PM. I'm weary on Flynn mostly due to the money he will command which I feel could make this whole regime sink or swim with him. I'm starting to come around based on the comments of posters I respect talking about things he's done in the 2 games he's played in.

TedSlimmJr, how do you feel about Flynn? I'm curious to know.

For the record I didn't watch the Lions game but will say I never saw more blown coverages in a game than I did when the Lions faced the Saints in the playoffs, so i do not think highly of their defensive backfield. I did watch the Pats game from begining to end and was definitely impressed with Flynn, I really thought that game would be a blowout with Rodgers being out. However, I do remember a costly INT and the biggest thing that sticks out to me, maybe it shouldn't but it does, is that Green Bay's 2 minute offense at the end of that game was piss poor. They had a chance to tie it up and seemed to lollygag quite a bit.
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Brian Billick on trading for QBs with short term track records of NFL success:

We asked Fox's Brian Billick who he would take if the Dolphins hired him - Matt Flynn or Manning. Billick didn't have a strong conviction. "If it's Stephen Ross deciding, it will be Manning," he said. "He better be prepared to pay him $28 million, $30 million." Billick likes Flynn but "the league is replete with guys with short-term success and they go someplace else for an entire year and struggle."

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...no-tebow-draft-jacory-more.html#storylink=cpy
 
bill polian thought matt flynn could be a starter in the league and yet he went in the 7th round and bill polians club took mike pollack, phillip wheeler, jacob tamme, marcus howard, tom santi, steve justice, mike hart, pierre garcon, and jamey richard all ahead of matt flynn?

he picked 3 god damn centers, before he thought matt flynn would be a better option even as a backup qb to peyton? 2 tight ends, and mike freakin hart?

peyton manning is one thing to find although it wasnt exactly finding peyton is was peyton falling into their laps, but the only other qb of any relevance at all polian is responsible for is kerry collins. polian can't sit there and give flynn a big rah rah rah now, when in 08 208 players went ahead of flynn. polian had 9 draft choices that year, and matt flynn wasn't good enough to be taken with at least 8 of them. I don't buy this crap from bill polian. bill polians best signing was probably bruce smith. best work was probably the hand he played in 4 straight superbowls albeit all of them loses.

I'm not against signing flynn, but I pray at lengths end we dont give him a ryan fitzpatrick type deal... he has proven very little to warrant such a contract.
 
and brian billick is probably worse. he just lies and tells you he knows quarterbacks and than does a worse job of bill polian proving it.
 
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