For discussion..QB, team, system. | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

For discussion..QB, team, system.

You have to be at least smart. AJ might have had a lot going against him last year. He didn't show signs of beeing smart w/ the ball however. He was wreckless/carelss w/ the ball. A younger version of Bledsoe IMO.
 
BlueFin said:
1000 yard rushers in Lamar Smith and Ricky Williams......Chris Chambers and Randy McMichael.....no Fiedler had plenty of support, what he didn't have was enough talent to excell.

Fiedler is a great example for this argument: yes a mediocre qb can do ok with a good supporting cast (11-5), but there is a point that he won't be able to pass (playoff success)based on his liabilities. Dilfer had just enough talent (and a more dominant D) to get him over the hump. Jay went as far as his talent and toughness could take him; he wasn't going any further.

So the answer is you don't need a superstar, but you can't do it with just anybody, you need some level of appreciable talent.
 
I think new england has proven that with the right group of guys and a good system, anyone with football knowledge and talent can be plugged into a positon. Look at there secondary last year, and they still decimated the colts. The jury is out on Feeley and our questions will be answered very soon. I think Fiedler got a real bad rap for us since he is Marino's successor. He really was not used properly. How many times did we see him throw the out pattern to the opposite side of the field and get picked. He doesn't have the arm for that, but they would call the play anyway. Poor coaching in miami made us the most consistently mediocre 11-5 team for years. By the way, I think Norv Turner was either horribly overrated or very restricted by Wanny. And Foerster has no business being in Football
 
BlueFin said:
Yes, theres no question a better supporting cast can make a mediocre QB look better, just as an average player at any position can look better with the right support around him.

Does that mean it will be good enough? No.

We obviously won't know until it plays out.

Hopefully AJ will blossom this year, but its possible that even with an improved team around him that he will continue to make too many mistakes.......we'll find out soon enough.

I completely agree with you here. A prime example of how "great" our ovensive system had been was right infront of our face last year. Brian Griese came here and we all thought he would do okay. Well it turns out that he didn't. Then last year he want to Tampa. Well let me say this. He could have been snubbed from the Pro-Bowl. There were just some damn good QB's ahead of him (McNabb/Vick/Culpepper). Griese had a passer rating of 97.5 last season. 6th of all QB's in the entire League. McNabb and Culpepper were the only other QB's in the NFC with a better rating. All of this with who as his supporting cast? Michael Pittman- RB Mike Allstot-FB and the WR's are Joey Galloway and Michael Clayton. Yes the question remains to whether or not Griese can still perform like that again this year, but I wouldn't mind having him here now with the talented supporting cast we now have and the coaching we have in place.

What do you think?
 
jlfin said:
Finally, a thread devoted to logic and common sense.
How about this for logic and common sense. Nobody has even mentioned the fact that AJ might not beat out Gus! And I for one don't think thats a bad thing. AJ has Fiedleristic tendencies no one can deny that. Poor scheme and sh*tty o-line only account for about half of his interceptions. He was flatout color blind at times!!! A good microcosm of AJ is that game he threw 3-4 TDs in the first half and then came back and threw 5 ints in the 2nd, that was AJ in a nutshell. Gus could be a very good QB in Miami with this system. I for one am grateful that he is here and have a good feeling the rest of you will also.
 
guido13 said:
I think new england has proven that with the right group of guys and a good system, anyone with football knowledge and talent can be plugged into a positon. Look at there secondary last year, and they still decimated the colts. The jury is out on Feeley and our questions will be answered very soon. I think Fiedler got a real bad rap for us since he is Marino's successor. He really was not used properly. How many times did we see him throw the out pattern to the opposite side of the field and get picked. He doesn't have the arm for that, but they would call the play anyway. Poor coaching in miami made us the most consistently mediocre 11-5 team for years. By the way, I think Norv Turner was either horribly overrated or very restricted by Wanny. And Foerster has no business being in Football

Fiedler wasn't Marino's direct successor. If I'm not mistaken it was Damon Huard. Fiedler took Damon Huard's spot when Huard didn't perform well.
 
islandah said:
Fiedler is a great example for this argument: yes a mediocre qb can do ok with a good supporting cast (11-5), but there is a point that he won't be able to pass (playoff success)based on his liabilities. Dilfer had just enough talent (and a more dominant D) to get him over the hump. Jay went as far as his talent and toughness could take him; he wasn't going any further.

So the answer is you don't need a superstar, but you can't do it with just anybody, you need some level of appreciable talent.

Thank you....well said!
 
nando03 said:
I completely agree with you here. A prime example of how "great" our ovensive system had been was right infront of our face last year. Brian Griese came here and we all thought he would do okay. Well it turns out that he didn't. Then last year he want to Tampa. Well let me say this. He could have been snubbed from the Pro-Bowl. There were just some damn good QB's ahead of him (McNabb/Vick/Culpepper). Griese had a passer rating of 97.5 last season. 6th of all QB's in the entire League. McNabb and Culpepper were the only other QB's in the NFC with a better rating. All of this with who as his supporting cast? Michael Pittman- RB Mike Allstot-FB and the WR's are Joey Galloway and Michael Clayton. Yes the question remains to whether or not Griese can still perform like that again this year, but I wouldn't mind having him here now with the talented supporting cast we now have and the coaching we have in place.

What do you think?

I think Brian Griese can be a very effective QB when he's given enough time, he is very accurate and can pick you apart.

What I don't like about him was how he handled pressure when the blocking did break down, how he reacted and how he protected the ball.
 
I disagree with the guy that said that Brady isn't s franchise QB...

I'd take him and his unbeaten playoff record over any QB in the league right now...
 
finsnchips said:
I disagree with the guy that said that Brady isn't s franchise QB...

I'd take him and his unbeaten playoff record over any QB in the league right now...

I totally agree, he is a money player.

He plays his best in the most important games and that is the mark of a great quarterback.

He is very much another version of Joe Montana.
 
GRYPHONK said:
Thanks. I think Fiedler is an excellent example. We had 2 straight 11-5 seasons with Fiedler playing solid. Then we switch OC'S and go to a conservative approach and do nothing but run and all of a sudden our offense stinks, Fiedler becomes a liability etc....

It's a combination of scheme and talent and a good OC (WHICH Turner proved he wasn't) who utilizes his QB'S strengths and doesn't try to stubbornly implement his own methods that don't work with the cast he has.
I think you are also forgetting we changed oline coaches. Which is probably as important if not more important than oc... A great oline hides many flaws.

All this leads us to have some good optimism for this year. However, our Oline and (either) QB have to prove they have improved. PERIOD.
 
MDFINFAN said:
I'm watching QB challenge, again..man I'm bored. Anyway they have Marino, Elway, Boomer, Kosar, and Simms sitting and talking about whether you have to be a top pick to be a good qb and win a super bowl..and their answer is no. Bottom line they said You have to have a supporting cast, good system, and a chance. Of course the Steve Young from tampa to SF was pointed out as a part of their argument as we've done. So if that's the case..if our team's OL is improved, our Running game improves, and a proven scheme with good receivers, will that translate to better QB play. Listening to them, yes, but a lot of you guys don't seem to agree based on the argurements about AJ. Who's right you guys or them..please explain..and guys no one liners..let's really talk this out.

This has been apprent more recently W/ the exceptiopn of Bradythere hasnt been really good QB's who have won a SuperBowl for example Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and Kurt Warner (He's good not great). Having a good system and supporting cast does help a ****load, But the QB cannot really suck now can he? I am 50/50 on this arguement.
 
PatsSuck456 said:
This has been apprent more recently W/ the exceptiopn of Bradythere hasnt been really good QB's who have won a SuperBowl for example Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and Kurt Warner (He's good not great). Having a good system and supporting cast does help a ****load, But the QB cannot really suck now can he? I am 50/50 on this arguement.

All those guys, while not great QBs, had incredible seasons. I believe that one of the true tests of greatness is longevity and these guys fail that, but for one season they were great.
 
finsnchips said:
I disagree with the guy that said that Brady isn't s franchise QB...

I'd take him and his unbeaten playoff record over any QB in the league right now...

But that's Brady in that system, if you put him in Norv's system as played here, is he as successful? The Griese example is a great analysis..when put in this situation, he had problems, put back in a WCO he excelled again. So I'm starting to believe the right system for the right players and tweated to take advantage of what those players do best. AJ is from a WCO system (Philly), ran kind of like Linehan's system. He played well with a great supporting cast, he comes here, our supporting cast, schemes, OC wasn't as great and the results were completely different. He regressed and tried to force the issue, which didn't bode well for him. Now we have an experienced OC, who O seems to work toward AJ's strength, strong armed QB with some skills throwing wise. So one part of the puzzle is solved to me. Now the most important parts. OL, is it where it needs to be? Everything, and I mean everything starts there. Our passing attack and running attack hinges on the OL abilities to open holes and hold their blocks when passing. Linehan's O relies on atleast 4 seconds in the passing game. Culpepper stood back there for awhile before launching some of his bombs, he had plenty of time to find receivers. The thread of thier receivers allowed big holes in the running game. We are somewhat different in that our receivers are good but not as dangerous, we don't have Moss. Our RB's seem to be a better group than last year's, (that goes without saying almost). Having said that I think Linehan will be more balance with this team, until, of course, he gets a sense of what our strenghts are. We maybe suited, personnel wise, more for running than passing. If that's the case, AJ or Gus should have a easier time passing. Play action is a great tool in giving extra time to the QB to fine a receiver.
 
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